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Barge Fairy Tale

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2821 - 2012-08-07 16:22:57 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Shalua Rui wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
"why does it only take one catalyst to gank my untanked expanded badger containing my life's worth eve is so unfair!!!"


It was a tanked Badger II running a Dist mission... I got gate camped and never found it unfair, cause it was in 0.4... but whatever let's you sleep at night. Blink


Whats that got to do with some fool transporting hundreds of millions in an untanked badger?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#2822 - 2012-08-07 16:50:44 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Shalua Rui wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
"why does it only take one catalyst to gank my untanked expanded badger containing my life's worth eve is so unfair!!!"


It was a tanked Badger II running a Dist mission... I got gate camped and never found it unfair, cause it was in 0.4... but whatever let's you sleep at night. Blink


Whats that got to do with some fool transporting hundreds of millions in an untanked badger?

If someone's "life's worth eve" is hundreds of millions and fits in an expanded badger, well ...

Interesting.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Tiak Vendil Isagar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2823 - 2012-08-07 17:13:45 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Blastcaps Madullier wrote:
Yet if you read the CSM minuits iirc CCP soundswave said ganking was never intended to be profitable....
You don't recall correctly.


CCP Soundwave wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Zagdul wrote:
Gone are the days where EVE is a dangerous place.

I seem to have missed the part when they made all player ships immune to damage.


That won't happen as long as I'm around, btw.

Suicide ganking wasn't designed to be profitable, it's meant to be an option that let's you punish someone else at your expense. The money you paid for a ship to gank with compared to the money lost by your target was completely off and this change should bring that to a better spot. That said, the numbers can still be adjusted.


Not sayin'... just sayin'...
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2824 - 2012-08-07 17:21:50 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Alavaria Fera wrote:

If someone's "life's worth eve" is hundreds of millions and fits in an expanded badger, well ...

Interesting.


You will be amazed with what badgers fly around in their holds.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#2825 - 2012-08-07 17:34:22 UTC
Tiak Vendil Isagar wrote:
Not sayin'... just sayin'...
…and the source of that quote is… [drumroll]
Tiak Vendil Isagar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2826 - 2012-08-07 18:04:56 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Tiak Vendil Isagar wrote:
Not sayin'... just sayin'...
…and the source of that quote is… [drumroll]


Actually, it's post #48 in this thread.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1698538#post1698538
Pipa Porto
#2827 - 2012-08-07 18:07:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Tiak Vendil Isagar wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Tiak Vendil Isagar wrote:
Not sayin'... just sayin'...
…and the source of that quote is… [drumroll]


Actually, it's post #48 in this thread.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1698538#post1698538


Which is not the CSM Summit Minutes.

It's just Soundwave going off the reservation again.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2828 - 2012-08-07 18:07:36 UTC
Tiak Vendil Isagar wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Tiak Vendil Isagar wrote:
Not sayin'... just sayin'...
…and the source of that quote is… [drumroll]


Actually, it's post #48 in this thread.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1698538#post1698538


Because he has never been wrong or used the wrong words to say something before...
Tiak Vendil Isagar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2829 - 2012-08-07 18:13:40 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Tiak Vendil Isagar wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Tiak Vendil Isagar wrote:
Not sayin'... just sayin'...
…and the source of that quote is… [drumroll]


Actually, it's post #48 in this thread.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1698538#post1698538


Because he has never been wrong or used the wrong words to say something before...


Great! Then this is settled!
Pipa Porto
#2830 - 2012-08-07 18:16:23 UTC
Tiak Vendil Isagar wrote:
Great! Then this is settled!


Yes it is. That quote is not from the CSM Minutes. Settled.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Tiak Vendil Isagar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2831 - 2012-08-07 18:23:21 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Tiak Vendil Isagar wrote:
Great! Then this is settled!


Yes it is. That quote is not from the CSM Minutes. Settled.


Phew! Glad I didn't lose that one!!Twisted
Pipa Porto
#2832 - 2012-08-07 18:35:00 UTC
Tiak Vendil Isagar wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Tiak Vendil Isagar wrote:
Great! Then this is settled!


Yes it is. That quote is not from the CSM Minutes. Settled.


Phew! Glad I didn't lose that one!!Twisted


There (at least to me) is a difference in gravitas between a post that a Dev dashes off in a thread (and doesn't bother defending after people point out that it's ludicrous), and something they say in a CSM meeting that makes it into the minutes.

Devs are Human. They say stupid things sometimes. The CSM minutes process gives them an opportunity to footnote themselves and retract/explain themselves before publication. The Forums don't.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#2833 - 2012-08-07 19:47:00 UTC
I think it's pretty obvious that the "Ganking isn't meant to be profitable" statement is meant to cover your average case with common sense fits involved.

Now if a ganker takes the time to scan carefully and single out the multitude of players that sink way too much isk into way to fragile ships that is a completely different story. Bad fits and bad decisions are the bread and butter of the suicide ganker, as it should be.

Low sec gate camps are not intended on the average to be hilariously profitable either, however nothing stops the occasional freighter pilot screw up. That does not mean that CCP intends that the errant freighter pilot cannot or should not die, just that under "normal" circumstances it is not the normal profit situation for the gate camp.

Suicide gankers should absolutely be able to make a profit at their chosen profession, but (as is CCP's intention) to be profitable they need to take the time to find the ones that Darwin has selected for extinction... not just gain profit from every potential victim that crosses their path.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Pipa Porto
#2834 - 2012-08-07 19:55:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Ranger 1 wrote:
I think it's pretty obvious that the "Ganking isn't meant to be profitable" statement is meant to cover your average case with common sense fits involved.

Now if a ganker takes the time to scan carefully and single out the multitude of players that sink way too much isk into way to fragile ships that is a completely different story. Bad fits and bad decisions are the bread and butter of the suicide ganker, as it should be.

Low sec gate camps are not intended on the average to be hilariously profitable either, however nothing stops the occasional freighter pilot screw up. That does not mean that CCP intends that the errant freighter pilot cannot or should not die, just that under "normal" circumstances it is not the normal profit situation for the gate camp.

Suicide gankers should absolutely be able to make a profit at their chosen profession, but (as is CCP's intention) to be profitable they need to take the time to find the ones that Darwin has selected for extinction... not just gain profit from every potential victim that crosses their path.


And that's true of the current Hulk. Ganking Hulks is unprofitable unless the Hulk pilot fails to tank their ship (the 0 MLU brick is a counter to the "gankers have infinite time and alts, so they'll bring Meta Catalysts". A much weaker tank will dissuade the vast majority of ganks in a .5 system.). In higher sec bands, Hulk pilots can tank their ship sturdily enough to be unprofitable and still fit MLUs. What more do you want?

Just because a lot of miners put themselves in the position of the Dodo (credulous and trusting of the sailors, leading to easy hunting and extinction) doesn't mean there's a problem

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2835 - 2012-08-07 20:00:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard Desturned
Pipa Porto wrote:
And that's true of the current Hulk. Ganking Hulks is unprofitable unless the Hulk pilot fails to tank their ship (the 0 MLU brick is a counter to the "gankers have infinite time and alts, so they'll bring Meta Catalysts". A much weaker tank will dissuade the vast majority of ganks in a .5 system.). In higher sec bands, Hulk pilots can tank their ship sturdily enough to be unprofitable and still fit MLUs. What more do you want?

Just because a lot of miners put themselves in the position of the Dodo (credulous and trusting of the sailors, leading to easy hunting and extinction) doesn't mean there's a problem


To be fair I don't believe that a ship should be profitable to suicide gank solely for its salvage (even T2 fit) regardless of how poorly fit it is.

Now, if it's a Hulk with those half-bil MLUs, that's a different story :v

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2836 - 2012-08-07 20:05:22 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
I think it's pretty obvious that the "Ganking isn't meant to be profitable" statement is meant to cover your average case with common sense fits involved.

Now if a ganker takes the time to scan carefully and single out the multitude of players that sink way too much isk into way to fragile ships that is a completely different story. Bad fits and bad decisions are the bread and butter of the suicide ganker, as it should be.

Low sec gate camps are not intended on the average to be hilariously profitable either, however nothing stops the occasional freighter pilot screw up. That does not mean that CCP intends that the errant freighter pilot cannot or should not die, just that under "normal" circumstances it is not the normal profit situation for the gate camp.

Suicide gankers should absolutely be able to make a profit at their chosen profession, but (as is CCP's intention) to be profitable they need to take the time to find the ones that Darwin has selected for extinction... not just gain profit from every potential victim that crosses their path.


And that's true of the current Hulk. Ganking Hulks is unprofitable unless the Hulk pilot fails to tank their ship (the 0 MLU brick is a counter to the "gankers have infinite time and alts, so they'll bring Meta Catalysts". A much weaker tank will dissuade the vast majority of ganks in a .5 system.). In higher sec bands, Hulk pilots can tank their ship sturdily enough to be unprofitable and still fit MLUs. What more do you want?

Just because a lot of miners put themselves in the position of the Dodo (credulous and trusting of the sailors, leading to easy hunting and extinction) doesn't mean there's a problem

Yet we've seen a number of ganks in .5's with partially tanked, non expanded hulks as well. Not the majority I'm sure but they have and still are happening.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#2837 - 2012-08-07 20:05:53 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
I think it's pretty obvious that the "Ganking isn't meant to be profitable" statement is meant to cover your average case with common sense fits involved.

Now if a ganker takes the time to scan carefully and single out the multitude of players that sink way too much isk into way to fragile ships that is a completely different story. Bad fits and bad decisions are the bread and butter of the suicide ganker, as it should be.

Low sec gate camps are not intended on the average to be hilariously profitable either, however nothing stops the occasional freighter pilot screw up. That does not mean that CCP intends that the errant freighter pilot cannot or should not die, just that under "normal" circumstances it is not the normal profit situation for the gate camp.

Suicide gankers should absolutely be able to make a profit at their chosen profession, but (as is CCP's intention) to be profitable they need to take the time to find the ones that Darwin has selected for extinction... not just gain profit from every potential victim that crosses their path.


And that's true of the current Hulk. Ganking Hulks is unprofitable unless the Hulk pilot fails to tank their ship (the 0 MLU brick is a counter to the "gankers have infinite time and alts, so they'll bring Meta Catalysts". A much weaker tank will dissuade the vast majority of ganks in a .5 system.). In higher sec bands, Hulk pilots can tank their ship sturdily enough to be unprofitable and still fit MLUs. What more do you want?

Just because a lot of miners put themselves in the position of the Dodo (credulous and trusting of the sailors, leading to easy hunting and extinction) doesn't mean there's a problem


I quite agree with most of that. However CCP in it's infinite wisdom has made it much easier to tell at a glance who the stupid and greedy miners are compared to the intelligent and prudent ones.

Just look for the hulk pilots in busy high sec systems and I have little doubt you will continue to find plentiful poorly fit, profitable targets.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Pipa Porto
#2838 - 2012-08-07 20:07:30 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
And that's true of the current Hulk. Ganking Hulks is unprofitable unless the Hulk pilot fails to tank their ship (the 0 MLU brick is a counter to the "gankers have infinite time and alts, so they'll bring Meta Catalysts". A much weaker tank will dissuade the vast majority of ganks in a .5 system.). In higher sec bands, Hulk pilots can tank their ship sturdily enough to be unprofitable and still fit MLUs. What more do you want?

Just because a lot of miners put themselves in the position of the Dodo (credulous and trusting of the sailors, leading to easy hunting and extinction) doesn't mean there's a problem


To be fair I don't believe that a ship should be profitable to suicide gank solely for its salvage (even T2 fit) regardless of how poorly fit it is.

Now, if it's a Hulk with those half-bil MLUs, that's a different story :v


Most T2 Cruisers with the same tank that most Hulk pilots fly with (i.e. none) are profitable to suicide gank solely for their salvage.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#2839 - 2012-08-07 20:10:15 UTC
As has been mentioned before, greed and sloth greatly diminish one's survival instinct.

This will not change.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Pipa Porto
#2840 - 2012-08-07 20:10:22 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
I quite agree with most of that. However CCP in it's infinite wisdom has made it much easier to tell at a glance who the stupid and greedy miners are compared to the intelligent and prudent ones.

Just look for the hulk pilots in busy high sec systems and I have little doubt you will continue to find plentiful poorly fit, profitable targets.


And tbh, I'm fine with the idea behind Barge re-balance (get moar viable ships). Atm, the problem with it is that the Mackinaw can get over the magical safety number and still do everything better than the Skiff, rendering the Skiff mostly (well, entirely) useless.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto