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Can we get a ship to bridge between indy's and freighters please
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Aomar Pahineh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2012-08-07 13:21:09 UTC
It would be nice to have a non-combat carrier that could fly in HS :-)
Aomar Pahineh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2012-08-07 13:22:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Aomar Pahineh
Jack Miton wrote:
what is, orca?



The Orca is probably the most useful ship in Eve right now. Has huge cargo bay, ore bay, corporate hangar bay, and ship maint bay. You can use it to refit ships in space, boost mining, haul, etc, etc.

It also can't be cargo scanned, and has a pretty large buffer tank if you fit for it.
shar'ra matcevsovski
Doomheim
#23 - 2012-08-07 13:34:47 UTC
Belthazor4011 wrote:
Orca would only apply if you didnt have to do so much mining related training to fly one.

So some sort of Orca copy that doest give mining bonuses and doesnt require that kind of training would be fine.


yeah too bad it has this mining bonus that doesnt stop you in any way from using it as a big haulerRoll

shar'ra phone home
Judas Lonestar
Stryker Industries
Stryker Group
#24 - 2012-08-07 13:39:38 UTC
GreenSeed wrote:
A new ship type in between would obsolete indys. Not sure if anyone here ever played it, but there’s an awesome sim game called transport tycoon deluxe that has a fancy solution. (there’s an open source version if you want to try it out :p)

In this game, ships (trains, freight ships, trucks) can be retrofitted to specialize them in one specific type of cargo. The idea would be to allow the basic indy hull to carry anything with the current cargo hold (just like it is now), or specialize on one specific type of cargo, and get a bonus to the hold. (Using a rig, or one of those subsystem slots that only t3 gets to use) that way the basic hull is versatile while a specialized can fit more of that specific item.

The idea is to allow a ship like the iteronV that can only move 3 capital armor plates and some other random stuff, specialize on that type of cargo and move eight or more plates, but be restricted only to that type of cargo (capital components) unless it retrofits again for something else.

That way we could allow current ships to be WAY more efficient at their job, having an iteron V move an assembled and rigged battleship is possible while not letting them obsolete freighters.

This would ofc need a small buff to current indy ehp... or make this change not available on t1 indys and only on t2 blockade runners. (Pretty useless ships as they are now.)


The problem is theres no ship in the hualer lineup that can haul a packaged BS except a billion dollar freighter. Thats a bit overkill. Sure, if all I want to do is maul around Capital Armor Plates the Itty may be a great ship. But moving 5 packaged cruisers? Forget it.

The freighter is awesome. It wont be made obsolete anytime soon.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#25 - 2012-08-07 14:08:58 UTC
Personally, I just want something smaller than a freighter, with a decent buffer, and a little more agile (ideally with the same kind of requirements as the basic freighter) Maybe a little faster on warp.

Maybe a quarter the cargo space, half the buffer, and around half the cost of a freighter.

In part to cut down the risk when moving more cargo than an indy can manage, while nowhere near a freighter load. Lower risk, because it's a less expensive ship being used.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Nazowa
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2012-08-07 14:23:18 UTC
Same response to these threads :

A million times Yes !

If you want, recycle the Orca graphics we don't care. Just give us the ship please.
Angsty Teenager
Broski North
#27 - 2012-08-07 15:55:22 UTC
Hey while we're at it, I'd like something that is in between a battleship and a dread. It does like 4000dps, but still uses large guns, but has to be in a 2.5min siege cycle, but also has 1mil ehp and has the align time of a battleship.

Oh wait, that's OP and not needed. Tell me again why you need something in between a freighter and an indy? If you want more cargo space, train the indy skill more, once you get level 5 guess what? You get freighters and T2 haulers.

I like the skill progression that CCP implemented here, high five.

ITT: People who think that logistics should be easier, not harder and who believe that a homogenization of the markets (more so than they already are) is a good thing
Ginger Barbarella
#28 - 2012-08-07 15:56:22 UTC
Quote:
Can we get a ship to bridge between indy's and freighters please


No.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#29 - 2012-08-07 16:00:50 UTC
Angsty Teenager wrote:
Hey while we're at it, I'd like something that is in between a battleship and a dread. It does like 4000dps, but still uses large guns, but has to be in a 2.5min siege cycle, but also has 1mil ehp and has the align time of a battleship.

Oh wait, that's OP and not needed. Tell me again why you need something in between a freighter and an indy? If you want more cargo space, train the indy skill more, once you get level 5 guess what? You get freighters and T2 haulers.

I like the skill progression that CCP implemented here, high five.

ITT: People who think that logistics should be easier, not harder and who believe that a homogenization of the markets (more so than they already are) is a good thing




Why? because a lot of the time you're moving stuff, you're wanting to move a lot less than a full freighter load, but equal to several indy loads. And that's ignoring the fact that a full cargo indy has a paper-thin tank.

I can shift stuff in a freighter. I'd just like something that isn't a billion isk investment being risked, when moving the equivalent of 2 indy loads.

Skill wise, I'm perfectly happy for it to need racial freighter 2+

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
stoicfaux
#30 - 2012-08-07 16:41:12 UTC
Right, so if miners can get role based ships (tank, capacity, or mining rate) then why can't freighters get the same treatment? Fast/agile freighter, tanky freighter, and high-capacity freighter.

Also, the Orca could use the same treatment. A variant sans the mining bonii could instead have increased cargo or hanger space.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Infinite Force
#31 - 2012-08-07 18:22:49 UTC
There's a thread for this here.

For those that think the Orca is the "end all" in between Itty's and Freighters - remember, the Orca is a Mining ship. Haulers are not.

JF's are the right size, but are stupidly expensive.

HROLT CEO Live Free; Die Proud

http://tinyurl.com/95zmyzw - The only way to go!
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
#32 - 2012-08-07 18:57:24 UTC
Zak Lonestar wrote:
So the "next step" is an Industrial with an average of 5k capacity, upt o around 30-40 maxed out with all the goodies. From there you go to a freighter with a capacity of nearly a million.

Thats the real world equivalent of being able to get a cargo van or a supertanker.

It would be nice to get a hauler that you could at least shove a packaged BS and some modules into. A nice sized hauler with 75 to 100k and a low slot or 3.


I would lime to see something in the 300k to 500k M3 range depending on upgrades... I too agree the jump from 30-50K to almost a million is a bit much.

Also, while we are on it, how about something in the 2-3 million M3 range? I am tired of making so many trips to Jita. I would be willing to pay about 5bil ISK for one
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#33 - 2012-08-07 19:00:12 UTC
Shizuken wrote:

Also, while we are on it, how about something in the 2-3 million M3 range? I am tired of making so many trips to Jita. I would be willing to pay about 5bil ISK for one


Get this man his 5 billion ISK hauler with 3m capacity!

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
choppachoppa
Stryker Industries
Stryker Group
#34 - 2012-08-07 19:03:58 UTC
Angsty Teenager wrote:
Hey while we're at it, I'd like something that is in between a battleship and a dread. It does like 4000dps, but still uses large guns, but has to be in a 2.5min siege cycle, but also has 1mil ehp and has the align time of a battleship.

Oh wait, that's OP and not needed. Tell me again why you need something in between a freighter and an indy? If you want more cargo space, train the indy skill more, once you get level 5 guess what? You get freighters and T2 haulers.

I like the skill progression that CCP implemented here, high five.

ITT: People who think that logistics should be easier, not harder and who believe that a homogenization of the markets (more so than they already are) is a good thing


Thats a terri-bad argument.

For your analogy to even begin to be relevant you would have to have a gap in combat ships that jumped from Cruisers to Dreads.

I'm talking about going from a ship with a cargo capacity of 5k to one with a capacity of nearly 1 million, with nothing in between.

Go back to spamming corp chat please. Big peoples are talking here.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#35 - 2012-08-07 19:10:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Liang Nuren
choppachoppa wrote:

I'm talking about going from a ship with a cargo capacity of 5k to one with a capacity of nearly 1 million, with nothing in between.


Let's not misrepresent the truth:
- What is the max cargo on an Itty 5?
- What is the max cargo on an Orca?
- What is the max cargo on an Ark?
- What is the max cargo on a Providence?

-Liang

Ed: IIRC the DSTs are all worse than the Itty 5 for raw cargo capacity. I could see buffing them.

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#36 - 2012-08-07 19:44:00 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:


Let's not misrepresent the truth:

- What is the max cargo on an Itty 5?
41.8k m3 (5x expanded cargo 2s, 2x medium cargo optimizer 2s, 1 mco 1) And that's the batshit insane expensive option. 38.4k m3 for the t1 rigs. maybe 13k ehp


- What is the max cargo on an Orca?
101k m3 (+40k corp +50k ore). 101k ehp or so

- What is the max cargo on an Ark?
345k m3. 351k ehp

- What is the max cargo on a Providence?
919k m3 194k ehp

Obelisk
938k m3, 201k ehp

Charon
981k m3, 180k ehp




Just so it's clear, the main reason I want a smaller freighter, is to reduce my risk when moving smaller loads. Sure, a gank for profit probably wouldn't take me (carry less than a billion in cargo) but we all know people do it for kicks too.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Joshua Lonestar
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#37 - 2012-08-07 19:44:51 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
choppachoppa wrote:

I'm talking about going from a ship with a cargo capacity of 5k to one with a capacity of nearly 1 million, with nothing in between.


Let's not misrepresent the truth:
- What is the max cargo on an Itty 5?
- What is the max cargo on an Orca?
- What is the max cargo on an Ark?
- What is the max cargo on a Providence?

-Liang

Ed: IIRC the DSTs are all worse than the Itty 5 for raw cargo capacity. I could see buffing them.


MAX cargo on the Itty V is I think 43k, give or take a bit. And thats with T2's in rigs and lows.

43k to near 1 million.

Again, cruiser to dread. Can we get some BC/BS equivalent haulers please?
Infinite Force
#38 - 2012-08-07 19:45:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinite Force
Liang Nuren wrote:
choppachoppa wrote:

I'm talking about going from a ship with a cargo capacity of 5k to one with a capacity of nearly 1 million, with nothing in between.


Let's not misrepresent the truth:
- What is the max cargo on an Itty 5?
- What is the max cargo on an Orca?
- What is the max cargo on an Ark?
- What is the max cargo on a Providence?

-Liang

Ed: IIRC the DSTs are all worse than the Itty 5 for raw cargo capacity. I could see buffing them.

Liang, your response suprises me.

Overall, there needs to be balance - both in cargo capacity, cost and training.

I'm rounding here (and going off of memory since I'm at work):
- Itty 5 - 38k m3 range general cargo ..... hull+fit < 3M
- Orca - 50k m3 Ore, 40k corp hangar, 102k m3 general cargo ..... hull + fit upwards of 700M (based on eve-central)
- Ark - 300k m3 general cargohold ..... hull - upwards of 7b
- Providence - 875k m3 range general cargo ..... hull - upwards of 1.2b

I agree that DST's need a cargo buff, I lean towards a 50k - 70k m3 range.

The Orca & JF issues are two fold:
1. The Orca is a mining vessel. It is not a hauler (e.g. it does not have a single cargo hold). It has a completely different skill path that a dedicated hauler doesn't need to train for.
2. The JF is cost ineffective for a mid-range hauler.

Per the "mini-freighter" thread, people are looking for a single cargo hold in the 250k m3 - 500k m3 range with a price tag of around 500m -- about 1/2 the cost & 1/2 the capacity of a freighter.

ITT: People that want a Battleship hauler ("mini-freighter")

HROLT CEO Live Free; Die Proud

http://tinyurl.com/95zmyzw - The only way to go!
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#39 - 2012-08-07 19:58:31 UTC
Infinite Force wrote:

Liang, your response suprises me.


Why? I'm not against the introduction of new ships or buffing old ones. I just don't want to see 5k represented as the max industrial size when I know for sure that my Prorator carries 10k and the itty 5 is much bigger still.

I'm not going to debate your numbers, but I seem to remember Ittys and Arks carrying more than that. It's been a while since I flew either one - my Prorator and a friend's Orca tends to be good enough for my purposes. Assuming your numbers are right then we see something like this for scaling:
38k -> 140k -> 300k -> 875k

That's not too terrible for scaling, really. But sure - buff DSTs and add more ships. /shrug

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Infinite Force
#40 - 2012-08-07 20:02:42 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Infinite Force wrote:

Liang, your response suprises me.


Why? I'm not against the introduction of new ships or buffing old ones. I just don't want to see 5k represented as the max industrial size when I know for sure that my Prorator carries 10k and the itty 5 is much bigger still.

I'm not going to debate your numbers, but I seem to remember Ittys and Arks carrying more than that. It's been a while since I flew either one - my Prorator and a friend's Orca tends to be good enough for my purposes. Assuming your numbers are right then we see something like this for scaling:
38k -> 140k -> 300k -> 875k

That's not too terrible for scaling, really. But sure - buff DSTs and add more ships. /shrug

-Liang

Why? Because "technically" the Orca isn't a single-hold hauler and the JF is way too costly.

HROLT CEO Live Free; Die Proud

http://tinyurl.com/95zmyzw - The only way to go!
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