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Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#161 - 2012-08-07 11:49:05 UTC
one troll less stop the f*cking QQ post jezus people need to read those dev post i think OP is brainless or what... Do you even think ccp cares about you? lmfao yah the do but not in the way that you have everything YOU NEED. There are more players.. Then ONLY YOU. Get over it go cry agains your mommy and ask why people are so rude.... Because trolling people and whiners are not nice people
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#162 - 2012-08-07 12:34:09 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Pilna Vcelka wrote:
Actually, carebears tend to be much older, mature and financially self-sufficient than "hard players". Simply because they dont have the time or desire to waste their lives "living hardcore pvp lives". They dont play to "overcome spectacular challenges" because they have enough of those in real world, they come to the virtual one to relax.

Its the 17y/o bullied fatties who make the best die-hard pvpers in any MMO, simply because they need to vent their frustration of failing at their real lives, all of their hate and desire to hurt other players comes simple from being inferior and hurt human beings.

Well-written, just the right amount of passive aggression to make it work. An easy 7/10. Would give it a higher score if it wasn't recycled material.

Reduce, reuse and recycle, huh.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#163 - 2012-08-07 12:38:22 UTC
Johan Civire wrote:
one troll less stop the f*cking QQ post jezus people need to read those dev post i think OP is brainless or what... Do you even think ccp cares about you? lmfao yah the do but not in the way that you have everything YOU NEED. There are more players.. Then ONLY YOU. Get over it go cry agains your mommy and ask why people are so rude.... Because trolling people and whiners are not nice people


*"Than," not "then."

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
Lilliana Stelles
#164 - 2012-08-07 12:54:12 UTC
"Eve is about pvp"

That was your first incorrect assumption.
Go play Wow if you don't want to show up in local.

Not a forum alt. 
Elliot Vodka
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#165 - 2012-08-07 12:59:39 UTC
So the first time in 8 years... Your refusing to adapt?


Thats freaking hilarious xD

Why is it that people think this game is for everyone?A better question would be "Why do some people think this game is only for them?"
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#166 - 2012-08-07 13:01:54 UTC
Lilliana Stelles wrote:
"Eve is about pvp"

That was your first incorrect assumption.
Go play Wow if you don't want to show up in local.


Personally I think this is a game about internet spaceships. It just happens that almost all of the different ships in EVE are designed exclusively to fill various combat roles.

.
koffeee
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#167 - 2012-08-07 13:04:16 UTC
wow i've played eve on and off since it went retail many moons ago.

and every time i come into eve and check the forums, its full of elite players who moan about the game, moan about changes and moan about the fellow players.

all games are the same, you must keep players coming back. it isn't about keeping those players playing, but gettting them new people playing.

most of the older players all use plex so whats the deal? someone paid for that plex with money but i bet it wasn't you......


eve isn't about killing noobs. 0.8+ should be 100% secure for new players, the old players should get there rocks off doing something else than picking on noobs.

Gate guns have always been under powered. totally useless. gate camping isn't fun. its just griefing.


if you get your rocks off going after players with 5 million skillpoints then i'm glad your leaving. because it will make my gaming experience better.

Lilliana Stelles
#168 - 2012-08-07 13:05:27 UTC
Roime wrote:
Lilliana Stelles wrote:
"Eve is about pvp"

That was your first incorrect assumption.
Go play Wow if you don't want to show up in local.


Personally I think this is a game about internet spaceships. It just happens that almost all of the different ships in EVE are designed exclusively to fill various combat roles.



Eve is what you make of it, whether that be collecting corpses, avatar dress up, or full-time ship spinning.
It can be a pvp game, but that's not all there is.

I don't understand why people keep thinking that they've found out what Eve is "about".

Not a forum alt. 
Attica
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#169 - 2012-08-07 13:15:04 UTC
koffeee wrote:
wow i've played eve on and off since it went retail many moons ago.

and every time i come into eve and check the forums, its full of elite players who moan about the game, moan about changes and moan about the fellow players.

all games are the same, you must keep players coming back. it isn't about keeping those players playing, but gettting them new people playing.

most of the older players all use plex so whats the deal? someone paid for that plex with money but i bet it wasn't you......


eve isn't about killing noobs. 0.8+ should be 100% secure for new players, the old players should get there rocks off doing something else than picking on noobs.

Gate guns have always been under powered. totally useless. gate camping isn't fun. its just griefing.


if you get your rocks off going after players with 5 million skillpoints then i'm glad your leaving. because it will make my gaming experience better.



I have to head out to work atm but shall return. I just wanted to say that most of what you said is, imo, dead on, balls to the wall accurate..imo.

Pirate tears are yummier than carebear tears for they come from the deeper well of anguish.
Hammer Borne
Doomheim
#170 - 2012-08-07 13:23:21 UTC
Anyone who feels the need to attention whore their own leave of the game leaves Eve a better place.

This kind of thing is best sent in direct feedback to EVE admins/CSM/etc.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#171 - 2012-08-07 13:35:19 UTC
Lilliana Stelles wrote:
Roime wrote:
Lilliana Stelles wrote:
"Eve is about pvp"

That was your first incorrect assumption.
Go play Wow if you don't want to show up in local.


Personally I think this is a game about internet spaceships. It just happens that almost all of the different ships in EVE are designed exclusively to fill various combat roles.



Eve is what you make of it, whether that be collecting corpses, avatar dress up, or full-time ship spinning.
It can be a pvp game, but that's not all there is.

I don't understand why people keep thinking that they've found out what Eve is "about".


Sure, everybody is entitled to see EVE as they please, this game is a sum of many parts, but player vs player combat is what drives the whole universe, from mining and industry to trade. And that is a simple fact, not an opinion.

Consequently the other parts couldn't exist without pvp, especially not corpses Blink

I often feel like the open despise towards PVP is tainted by limited exposure to pew, specifically to the most boring forms of it such as hisec station games, bad luck on gates or being a grunt in a null blob of a bad alliance. Even without any personal experience, these get thrown about so often that new players start to believe that's all there is to pvp.

Still even this does not explain why some posters can be so cross-eyed to actually suggest that all pvpers only want to kill nubs on gates, or suicide miners on belts. These activities omit the interesting aspects that EVE pvp consist of- strategy, co-operation, making space brosefs, outwitting your opponents. Hell, just setting up a POS inside a wormhole and living there is already pvp imho.

Controlling large fleets must be fun for the exclusive few, but solo and small gang is accessible to everyone.

It's way more than ctrl-click the primary, F1, and trust me, pvp in this game is absolutely fantastic.

.
Lilliana Stelles
#172 - 2012-08-07 13:52:16 UTC
Roime wrote:
Lilliana Stelles wrote:
Roime wrote:
Lilliana Stelles wrote:
"Eve is about pvp"

That was your first incorrect assumption.
Go play Wow if you don't want to show up in local.


Personally I think this is a game about internet spaceships. It just happens that almost all of the different ships in EVE are designed exclusively to fill various combat roles.



Eve is what you make of it, whether that be collecting corpses, avatar dress up, or full-time ship spinning.
It can be a pvp game, but that's not all there is.

I don't understand why people keep thinking that they've found out what Eve is "about".


Sure, everybody is entitled to see EVE as they please, this game is a sum of many parts, but player vs player combat is what drives the whole universe, from mining and industry to trade. And that is a simple fact, not an opinion.

Consequently the other parts couldn't exist without pvp, especially not corpses Blink

I often feel like the open despise towards PVP is tainted by limited exposure to pew, specifically to the most boring forms of it such as hisec station games, bad luck on gates or being a grunt in a null blob of a bad alliance. Even without any personal experience, these get thrown about so often that new players start to believe that's all there is to pvp.

Still even this does not explain why some posters can be so cross-eyed to actually suggest that all pvpers only want to kill nubs on gates, or suicide miners on belts. These activities omit the interesting aspects that EVE pvp consist of- strategy, co-operation, making space brosefs, outwitting your opponents. Hell, just setting up a POS inside a wormhole and living there is already pvp imho.

Controlling large fleets must be fun for the exclusive few, but solo and small gang is accessible to everyone.

It's way more than ctrl-click the primary, F1, and trust me, pvp in this game is absolutely fantastic.



I won't even try to argue with that. I prefer small gang pvp as well... sadly, it almost always comes down to numbers. I've only had a few honest shootouts.

But for me, it's only one part of the game. I see PvP as ultimately an endgame. I carebeared for almost a year before I really got into it, and I don't view my time in highsec as any less correct or important.

Not a forum alt. 
Arkturus McFadden
Anukar
#173 - 2012-08-07 13:54:51 UTC
Mors Sanctitatis wrote:
I read a post earlier about some 3 year player binning his character because he was suicide ganked and then lost his Golem (LOL) to Concord because he "shot a Noctis" (i.e. he was an idiot and made a huge mistake).

I'm an 8 year+ player (I've lost count to be frank) and I've had at least two accounts subbed at a minimum for the entire 8+ years. This month will be the first time in 8 years that I have no characters in training.

Why? CCP has continued and will continue to make Eve less lethal. CCP continually makes Eve a safer place, easier to survive, with fewer opportunities to die horribly as a result of your mistakes. Essentially, they've dumbed down the game, and continue to do so.

When I was a new player, Eve was incredibly lethal. Jump into a .4, get your face blown off. Rinse, repeat. Your life span was usually dictated by how long you could hold your cloak at a gate. This part of the game was what kept me coming back for more. Extreme risk, extreme danger, extreme loss if you make a mistake.

Eve PVP is now garbage. It's not that the balance is that bad, or the mechanics are terrible. That part of the game is just fine. It's the inability to have non-concentual PVP. 99% of the time, if you get a fight it's because either A) the other side wanted to fight, or B) the other side made such a huge mistake that they ignored all signs of danger for 10+ minutes while you 'snuck up on them' in broad daylight, broadcasting your presence in local. Anyway, I digress.

With every change, CCP has removed risk, weighted the balance towards the defender and generally pampered those players who otherwise would have been murdered like sleeping baby seals.

Maybe one day the game will turn the corner and CCP will start making it more lethal again. I seriously doubt it, but it might happen. Until then, it's looking less and less likely that I'll find it worthwhile to log back in. It's sad really. CCP has finally managed to pummel my fanatical enthusiasm for the game into mush. I've been transformed from Eve evangelist to apathetic apologist. And the worst part is, all the other aspects of Eve have never been better: graphics, new ship models, missile trails, interface updates, market improvements, industry, invention, etc. etc. etc.

But that's not what Eve is about. Eve is about PVP. And until CCP fixes that, it's not worth subbing. Such a waste.


***EDIT***

Some addendum:

This post isn't about gate guns, or high sec or low sec or whatever. The players focusing on issues such as these are behaving like a person running at speed and looking straight down at their toes. The focus should be at the horizon, not at the base of your feet. Think bigger. Think more fundamentally about how the game is constructed and how it's (so poorly) organized for PVP and how fundamental changes in gameplay can radically improve the game over the long run. CCP keeps placating you with tiny improvements and distracting you with changes designed to generate controversy and discord.

So no, this isn't a "Goons ruined Eve" thread. It's not a whine thread. I'm just voting with my wallet. The only thing CCP understands.



Cya, I'll enjoy the ever present pvp while your gone. But hopefully you'll come back, because veterans on the battlefield are a sight to behold for the newer guys.
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#174 - 2012-08-07 14:01:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Vilnius Zar
They're working (and have been for years) to make EVE more mainstream, because that attracts more players (the customer pool for "hardcore" pvp focussed players is fairly small compared to other types). Thing is ofcourse that by doing so they also make it more mediocre and generic, so short term this has a positive effect (more influx of new players).

The problems this creates are the following

- EVE is about player created content, generally this is done by people who are invested into the game and it's mostly done in ways that are pvp/combat related. Think of GHSC, the BOB era (which are now replaced by PL/goons in that respect although it's not really the same thing) and similar antics. Without player driven "storylines" EVE loses its magic and shows you what it essentially is: a badly coded spreadsheet borefest. Without conflict on a "personal" level (creating the drive) there's not much to do other than grind PVE till your balls fall off or doing blob stuff frantically trying to convince yourself you're having fun.

The more generic/safe you make this game, the less the "content creators" you'll keep/have as they'll go "pff, why bother" (this is already happening, we need a good feud tbh). So long term that means you lose your loyal player base because at one point more and more are going "**** this ****". The problem is ofcourse that CCP listens to marketing managers&investors and those don't care much for long term effects, all they care about is short term because that's what their bonuses are based on. And in a few short years they'll leave "to find a new challenge" leaving behind a wreck.


- The new type of player that's attracted to the new generic EVE will move on to the next new fad fairly soon. There's a REASON why WOW-clones don't do well, they're generic and are easily replaced by the next generic nonsense, populated by players who rush to the endgame (if any) and then their attention span drops to the floor, eager to find the next new game. The result is that turnover (average time a player sticks to EVE) will be a lot faster, resulting in less and less options to be so invested in the game, have played for so long that you become a content creator. On average we'll get a higher influx but a younger account age before they move on.

This is ofcourse already noticeable in how CCP focuses their effort on newer players, for years you hear the "but what about us vets, when do WE get something cool?". They're actively, but slowly, moving away from the pvp focussed sandbox into a more generic thing that'll attract more people. The problem is that they don't realise that EVE exists and has grown BECAUSE of its rather niche stance, not in spite of it.

In short, OP is correct and I very much understand his stance on the matter.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#175 - 2012-08-07 14:01:41 UTC
What's changed in 8 years that makes Eve less dangerous? Is it mechanics, or is it player behavior?

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din
Commonwealth Vanguard
#176 - 2012-08-07 14:05:16 UTC
I was intending to read half the post and disregard it as a whine. I was wrong.

I actually agree with alot of what teh OP is saying. Eve IS becoming safer, it shouldnt. Sure some things need balancing, suicide ganking does need to be less prolific but other than that, there should be more pvp not less. Alot of what has been happening is actually reducing pvp and danger.

Miners did need a buff, teh ability to have ships that wont be ganked anythign liek as often. However, it surely wont end suicide ganking as many people will still opt for high yield low tank ships, they will die. That is right, it should be able to happen.

Gate guns that pretty much end lowsec pvp at gates? No thanks. Station games where you can avoid pvp? No thanks. Making easy ways to avoid pvp? No thanks.

Add ways for players to defend themselves, not add mechanics to make them safe. Make more reasons for players to go to dangerous places, not make the places safer. Make the players make themselves safer, dont hold their hands and wrap them in cotton wool.


Keep Eve harsh. When I started in 07 everythign was harder than it is today, and it was even harder before that by all accounts. Stop making it softer, but give people more to play with and let them roll with it. Balance what is needed, but stop making everything safer.

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#177 - 2012-08-07 14:14:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard Desturned
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
What's changed in 8 years that makes Eve less dangerous? Is it mechanics, or is it player behavior?


Let's see:

Instakilling, permajamming and instaneuting CONCORD, halving of CONCORD response times, removal of insurance payouts for losses to CONCORD, HP buff to all ships which was supposed to "increase the length of fights" but only served to make ships much safer in hisec, the ability to set stations as autopilot destinations

There's more than that too!

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Doddy
Excidium.
#178 - 2012-08-07 14:18:00 UTC
While i broadly agree with the sentiments (eve continues to move further from what made it great), these "i cancelled my 25 accounts" threads are the poasting equivelant of a 6 year old taking their ball home. Seriously nobody cares.
Bootleg Jack
ACME Mineral and Gas
#179 - 2012-08-07 14:18:36 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote:
But whatever, leave. More for the rest of us.

That's not how it works when content-creating players leave the game.


lol, to the contrary, if we could just get another 30k or so bitter vets to leave this game could move into the 21st century instead of the death spiral it is on.

I'm an American, English is my second language...
SegaPhoenix
Chicks on Speed
#180 - 2012-08-07 14:19:30 UTC
Op, your my hero.

Keep on keepin on brother.