EVE General Discussion

So then we'd turn to REMOVE LOCAL for salvation.

Such an innovative plan for REMOVE LOCAL to pose as our savior.

Makes sense, but why do people ferry stuff between hi and low/nullsec, or even different areas of nullsec?

Is it because most things are produced in hisec?

I've never been involved in a nullsec alliance that really has any major industry going on, so I really don't know.

Industry in HS has effectively unlimited free manufacturing slots, easy logistics, one stop shopping centers, and safe POSes.

So for everything other than T1 ship Hulls, it's better to import it via JF. T1 Ship Hulls (esp big ones), you import BPCs and 425s/800s.

You can fit an effectively unlimited amount of T2/Meta Modules into a JF. Much more than you ever could with the number of build slots available in Null.

Capitals are easier to build in LS and jump down, and Supers are really the only thing that Null builds better than anywhere else (cause you can't build them anywhere else).

The main problem with Eve today is that there is a social packing order in the game and the different social orders don't understand each other at all. Miners look at pirates and wonder how anyone could think this is a fun way to spend your time, while pirates look at miners and wonder how anyone can stand the boredom for more than a second. This type of difference of play style pulifirates throughout Eve creating mini social communities of people who haven't got a clue about why people like certain type of playstyles.

To make matters worse is that these play styles are at odds with each other. One group wants to blow stuff up, the other doesn't want to fight at all. One group wants the other group to come out to low sec, while the other wants everyone to come to null sec. As if that isn't enough, one play style, ruins the experiance for another.

In the meantime each type of playstyle or social orders is trying to convince CCP to "design" and "Patch" the game to support their play style, which ultimatly hurts other play styles.

This battle has been going on since day 1 in Eve, continues to today and every time we get a patch no matter what it is, one group is happy the other is quiting Eve.

This is the problem CCP faces today and will continue to face for the remaining years Eve is maintained.

There is no solution. However CCP in a way makes it worse by having a vision of the game and faltering on that vision under pressure from some of these social orders. For example the "Risk vs. Reward" mantra that has always headlined the CCP vision has been an utter and complete failure in terms of application. Other mantras like "Your never safe in Eve" have also succumb to pressure as evidence in the recent patch.

It would be better if CCP came out and said "This is what we want our game to be, here is the patch that makes it so, if you don't like it, **** off". But in the interest of making money, they play the round robin game of patching to the most pissed of majority at any given time and throwing occasional bones to the minority in hopes of keeping us hanging on. For the most part this has worked but my main beef with CCP has always been that I love their vision, they just simply don't execute it. If they just made the game they set out to make and actually implemented patches based on their vision rather than the pressures from their community while the community might ultimatly be smaller it would be healthier.

Instead we get "middle of the road" compromises that serve no one fully.

Whoa whoa whoa.

We woudn't want to make life too easy for nullsec. Though we dream of them being more "self sufficient", it just isn't right to help power projection supercap proliferation blah blah blah.


The big thing is you need TRIT and other lowends. Lots of em. Means you have to deal with compressing, then uncompressing and all that. Even for say T1 hulls, in many cases there are producers with the blueprints, but it just isn't worth enough. You're looking at small margins with Jita prices. You can make a little more than the difference on shipping between compressed minerals and hull. For a ton of effort.

Supercaps are different. Caps slightly as well (though it might be best to make in some forgotten corner of lowsec and jump into null for your buyer).

Because the same goes for every thinking. It's the same with racists, sexists and all other form of (what we believe) is wrong-thinking.

"He does/thinks in a different way that I do! There most be something wrong!"

As for me, I don't mind that much. INcreases my income aswell as makes my expenses cheaper. <- Which some pvpers should think about, though they're not the smartest bunch in the game.

Yes, if Alliances were given hundreds of stations full of Manufacturing and research slots at no cost, JFs wouldn't be as needed (except to bring in raw materials, so just as needed).

Trade Hubs are efficient. For relatively low volume goods (like, say, moongoo), it's much easier to take the stuff to Jita than to work out some bartering trade deal with someone on the other side of EVE (especially since you'd have to head across HS to make the trade). Major Trade Hubs essentially require easy logistics. Easy Logistics is HS's biggest advantage over Low/Null.

Actually, the reason 'pirates' like to gank high sec is down to the very thing they complain about. And that is no risk.

If 'most carebears' play in high sec and the reason they do this is because of the safety issue, why have some of you not seen that the same applies to so called 'pirates'?
It's the same for them. No risk at all from interference, no-one can stop them, and their targets when they acquire them are guaranteed kills.
YES, suicide ganks mean they will lose their ships etc, but all this happens on the 'pirate's' terms, and is part of the plan due to how the mechanics work.

There ARE solo missioners/explorers/other in low sec that can also be targeted by pirates, but the problem for these 'pirates' is that those targets might actually put up a fight, or have back up.

I think the reason people fail to see this is because pvp in this game, and piracy included is seen as a 'superior' way of playing, and at the very least, takes balls, or makes you super tough. It's all an epeen thing, a male dominance issue. Men need ways to compete with each other and say "I'm better than you". That manifests itself in EVE by deciding that PVP is the competitive element, and so therefore the battleground for dominance. If you dont do PVP, then you're labelled a carebear and 'weak' etc, all in a display to show others that that (pvp) individual has dominance over lesser 'carebears'.

I would argue though that high sec piracy and ganking is actually a fighting ground for those 'weaker' individuals who still feel the need to exert dominance, but feel too weak to compete in that same arena the rest do in low/null.

It's exactly the same mentality as high level players in WoW who go and camp the started towns of the low level players. They want their 'pvp', but they dont want any risk at all that they might actually lose.
Same principle in EVE.

Now I'm not saying that low/null couldnt do with some improvements to get more people there, but I spend a lot of time in low myself, and there ARE targets. I've seen plenty of solo mission runners, and I myself am just doing exploration on those occasions.
The problem for these so called 'pirates' though is that the low/null prey isnt sitting still, probably AFK, with no back up fleet and no means to defend themselves.

Think on that :)

And moving bulk material efficiently. And Outposts, iHubs, IHub upgrades...

Yep. There are plenty of goods where people pay a premium for convenience.

Like goods that are not "relatively low volume.*"

*market volume, not m3