These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Missions & Complexes

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Cross-train or not? Need some advice
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Zelk Ovah
Code Terminus
#1 - 2012-08-06 05:08:15 UTC
Since I started the game I've been an amarr pilot all my career, right now (and for the foreseeable future) i'm mostly focused on PvE, specially missioning and exploration. I recently got amarr cruisers to 5 and I have t2 medium guns already trained. After getting tired of high-sec exploration, as a break, I decided to start missioning for money.

Reading around i realized the best way to make missions profitable is to only pay attention to isk to LP ratios and blitz the missions as fast as you can (right?). After expending an afternoon doing some spreadsheets and flying around all over the place I decided that the best bet for good LP stores are in angel/gurista space. Most of the items that are kinda worth it from amarr LP stores require insane amount of hard to find very pricey medals, that even though i know i can set up buy orders for, they never seem to be in enough supply.

It looks like missions are tied to the space the agent I'm missioning for resides in, so I'll be mostly doing angel/gurista missions and amarr doesn't do so hot against them. I'm left with a problem and I want your opinion:

a) I should stick to amarr train for t2 guns and aim for a nightmare asap, angels might take longer but are not that bad.

a1) Or maybe use the navy geddon with t2 sentries but i don't have t2 sentry skills and i hear the tank/cap is really weak.

b) Angels take so long to kill with lasers (and you tank is so weak against them) that its better to cross-train to a damage select able race and if so, which one?

b1) Caldari? After all you can't spell a sentence with PvE on it without the word Caldari right afterwards, not to mention that in exploration apparently everything short of a tengu is downright pointless.

b2) Minmatar? I have most of my gunnery support skills already at 4 and they armor tank too (in pve?) select able damage type and good speed+shield tanks looks like they don't have anything to envy caldari vessels... or do they?

I don't like galente.

I know its easy in this game to suffer from the illusion of greener grass on the other side, but so far even though i love the idea of lasers, rigid damage types, poor damage projection (at least compared to missiles) and they use cap makes me think they're the worst, at least in PvE, not to mention amarr ships that are hard to fit and armor tank making them slow and difficult to share with gank.

If it were up to me i would love to stay amarr, i was finally getting close to a nightmare, but as far as i can tell LP and DED drops look so much better in gurista/angel space. Toughs? Thanks.
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#2 - 2012-08-06 05:50:38 UTC
First off, T2 Amarr ships tank Angels nicely, just not T1 ones.

Second, here are some numbers for you. Lasers shooting MF will do about 70% of the damage that pure Exp damage does against Angels. Fusion ammo will do about 98% the damage. And Thermal (using Gal high-DPS drones) will do about 76%.

So, if you throw together an EFT fit which uses lasers to do 40% more DPS than using a ship that does Exp damage (Fusion ammo or Bouncers), then go for it. Otherwise, dealing Exp damage will serve you better.
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#3 - 2012-08-06 07:33:49 UTC
Nightmare, Machariel, Navy Domi, Navy Raven.

Pick one, train for it.
Taoist Dragon
School of Applied Knowledge
#4 - 2012-08-07 02:18:01 UTC
Keep with Amarr.

Unless you have a burning desitre to use another race then Amarr will perform solidly in pretty much every role you will want from them. May not be the best at some but can still be a solid contender.

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
Keith Planck
Hi-Sec Huggers
#5 - 2012-08-07 03:02:34 UTC
machariel

♞
Jaison Savrin
Brave Empire Inc.
Brave United
#6 - 2012-08-07 03:34:44 UTC
I started off primarily running missions. I stuck to Amarr for a long time. Can't tell you how many missions I did in my trusty Abaddon. However, I eventually trained into shields and Caldari (first), eventually all of the other three races. I am not a min maxer. I have fun just fiddling with new ships and such so that may not be the answer for you. If I were in your position I'd probably go for the Nightmare. You probably already have decent skills for it. Training Caldari BS up and shield skills don't take terribly long and it is a fun ship to fly.

Hope my rambling helps.
Zelk Ovah
Code Terminus
#7 - 2012-08-07 04:31:58 UTC
It does, thanks for your opinions so far. This wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for the fact that exploration seems to be ruled by the tengu and only worth it in angel/gurista space. The same applies to missions, can't find a better item in amarr LP stores than the ones i have, yet i see so many people missioning in amarr space. What do you do? Mostly salvage everything and only complement a little with LP?
Traejun DiSanctis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-08-07 04:43:26 UTC
Cross training is completely a personal choice. I don't believe you'd ever have to in order to participate in anything this game has to offer. Sure, being a Caldari shield/missile pilot might keep you out of armor fleets. At the same time, whatever that armor fleet is doing, there's a shield fleet doing the same thing - just gotta find it.

I've cross trained quite a bit from Caldari into Minmatar and Gallente, plus Amarr frigs and cruisers. I did it because I liked the change of pace from the standard Caldari missile sniper ethos. Even HAMs and Torps feel a little too sniperish for me. No real change of pace there. I'm also kind of a ship whore, so I like being able to fly all kinds of birds such that I will usually be able to use the correct tool for the job.

Again, it's all a matter of choice. However, I cannot recommend cor
Jaison Savrin
Brave Empire Inc.
Brave United
#9 - 2012-08-07 04:58:02 UTC
Zelk Ovah wrote:
It does, thanks for your opinions so far. This wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for the fact that exploration seems to be ruled by the tengu and only worth it in angel/gurista space. The same applies to missions, can't find a better item in amarr LP stores than the ones i have, yet i see so many people missioning in amarr space. What do you do? Mostly salvage everything and only complement a little with LP?




Depends. For a long time I ran missions (L4s) and salvaged them. I recommend getting a Noctis for this but I did it in a Coercer for a long time too and it worked well enough. LP Can be tricky because you get best results by knowing what is in demand. I missioned for the Imperial Navy and always seemed to get solid results but it has been awhile. I eventually just used them for myself like getting faction guns for my own Nightmare. Saved me a solid 500mil at the time (I can't use T2 even still. One bad thing about cross training).

I never tried exploration. I bet something like a curse wouldn't do terrible in high sec sites. Drones for DPS and lots of utility highs. Don't take my word on it though. That is just a guess and could be terribly wrong.
Zelk Ovah
Code Terminus
#10 - 2012-08-07 05:29:57 UTC
I do exploration on an arbitrator, since i just started and i want to get the hang of it while i train for other things, i can do both professional sites and DED 3 and 4. It does alright, but after exploring in sansha space for a month, i checked the loot tables for sansha sites and they are, compared to the other pirate factions, the worst. Not only they have more garbage items that liter the loot tables but the ones that are worth it sell for less than the angel/gurista ones.

I can't go explore in caldari space without a tengu 3 secs later smelling my @ss and the legion can't really compare. Thats why i decided to take a break and focus on missions, especially since t2 lasers/nightmare/nappoc look so hot and i was relatively close to them (and Im perseption spec'd at the moment). I'm 20 days away from t2 large guns, so i might stick with them and try make the amarr missioning work. After all, planning and working things out is half the fun in this game Smile.

Feel free to keep replying if anybody has opinions/anecdotes to share, i'm definitely still interested.

Thanks.
Taoist Dragon
School of Applied Knowledge
#11 - 2012-08-07 06:21:36 UTC
Keep exploring in the Arbitrator. Excellent boat for it.

I still have a few fitted for exploration - mainly 'profession' sites like mag/radar/ladar and it works great for that in Lowsec.

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
Higgs Foton
Mission And Mining Inc
#12 - 2012-08-07 22:11:27 UTC
Crosstrain? I can surely recommend it. I have trained up all races and all weapon systems, and it really helps take on different rats and situations in missions, exploration and anomalies.

The ships i use most in missions are the Tengu and the nightmare. The latter i use exclusively for rats which are weakest against EM and Thermal damage. The tengu i use for other missions.

As for plexing in null sec i use Ishtar (Guristas and Serpentis) and Tengu. If you go against Guristas and Serpentis i use a passive shield Ishtar, agains Sansha i use a dual armor rep one. Angels and blood Raiders i never tried. The tengu does good in all exploration cases, and works like a charm. I did mag and radar sites in Sansha and Angel space in a Sleipnir.

For anomalies i used Tengu, CNR or Chimera.

High sec exploration for me is Ishtar or Gila. The later i have a active shield tank with drome damage amplifiers, and that works very nice. I can surely recommend it. Very good ship if you have both caldari and gallente trained to 5 and have good drone skills.

So it takes a lot of time, but crosstraining is sure worth the hassle if you plan on playing this game for several years. I started out minmatar, trained for caldari after that, and then gallante (to get into an Ishtar) and finally Amarr. I think its a good think to be able to fly most ships in game. That means you can always get something usable together even, if you are in regions with bad markets.
Cage Man
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#13 - 2012-08-09 01:08:27 UTC
If you missioning in amarr -> Nightmare, else Macharial, even with T1 meta 4 guns its pretty good. This way your gunnery skills are not wasted.
Veryez
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
#14 - 2012-08-09 01:49:31 UTC
You can use any race's ships to run missions, as they can all work well with good skills.

Racial Cruiser 5 is the best skill in the game imho, as it opens up so many good ships.

Do not cross train because you "think" this ship is better than that one, or for the FOTM. Cross train because you plan on playing eve for another 10 years and want to experience the different styles/flavors of flying. There are times I want to use the range of lasers, others when I want the eye-opening DPS of hybrids, and other times I want speed of minmatar ships and finally there are times I want the ease of missiles. EvE is not a sprint, it's a marathon - enjoy it.
Velarra
#15 - 2012-08-09 23:34:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Velarra
Taoist Dragon wrote:
Keep with Amarr.

Unless you have a burning desitre to use another race then Amarr will perform solidly in pretty much every role you will want from them. May not be the best at some but can still be a solid contender.


I'd go so far as to suggest this holds true for each of the primary 4 playable empires' ships in eve. In the short term, you'll likely do better sticking to one type of ship line than branching out early.

Long term? If you want, branch out you can try different flavors of play, different ways of achieving the exact same goal within a ship class. You'll even gain access to pirate ships that offer a hybrid of playstyles. If anything, just be wary of branching out too early, it's a all too easy to wake up being a master of none and a generalist of many.