Player Features and Ideas Discussion

A doomsday can put out 3 million damage points. Let anyone be the judge of how big that is. If anyone thinks that they can get the armor EHP alone of the Moros over 3 mil EHP, just keep in mind that whatever is left must face the wrath of the opposing dreads and supers to finish it off. Each dead can put out 60k HP, so if 120k EHP is left after a DD strike, then 2 dreads can easily finish it off. So if anyone wants to think that a Titan DD popping a dread is a fallacy, let them show a non-fail fit dread with enough EHP to withstand a single DD plus whatever the rest of the caps might throw against him to finish him off. And if after that powerful first volley, he has not hit structure, I will be impressed indeed. If you think that you have enough experience to tell us whatever you want us to assume a typical Titan alpha fleet might be, then unless anyone disagrees too strongly, we will even roll with your numbers. After looking at those numbers, you may feel the desire to swallow your pride and admit that I was in all practicality, correct. There is nothing wrong with admitting that I was right.

Logistics cruisers. They are logistics but not the cruisers. That's why they can have different mechanics. That's what I wanted to say.

Um... No-brain logistics would be better?

Once every 10 minutes? With pinning itself to the system for the next 10 minutes? That's far from 'easily'.

Of course, that's the whole point of the triage carrier: to be a sacrificial savior, who alone takes the burden and can die for his beloved fleet to survive. And you want to take that pathos away, depreciating the blessed triage carriers to regular blobski spider-wankers.

Care to comment how quadrupling the effectiveness of carriers' RR and multiplying their survivability even more for zero price will make the game more enjoyable?


And, btw, 28 times more is 2700% more, not 270%.

Logi cruisers are supposed to stay with the fleet (unlike carriers). So while they are sometimes there to "save the fleet", the idea is they also survive.

It's a bit of an apples and oranges thing because logi cruisers don't have a "hero mode" button.

yeah, that's what I was thinking ... though I've been in instances where one stays "hero logi" while the last person or two is trying to GTFO ...

By the way, yeah. Mobility. Logistics cruisers stay with fleet permanently. A fleet with logistic cruisers can escape through the gate, such fleet can warp and rewarp freely, such fleet can burn away from the enemies to maintain range. Triage carriers lack all of these things: the fleet is tied to the system, cannot leave the grid, and has a 50 km long leash on its neck – if they go farther than that from carriers, they cannot be repped.

Also, talking about GTFO. When I was in fleets, we used two rules: if the fleet warps out from danger to safety, all the logis warp out the last, after every single other ship is on his way out; if we're rewarping through the bouncing spot or to any other place where logistics would be needed immediately, everybody warps simultaneously – the people are usually given some time to align, burn out of bubbals, report points and so on, if you're slow it's your problem.

And about heroes. The '24/7 hero' isn't hero at all. It is not an occupation. Hero always comes alone, saves the day in 10 minutes of action, and leaves. Or dies, trying to achieve that. Logistic cruisers are more like guardian angels: always by the side, always here to help. But nothing can compete with a hero in the right place at the right time. That's why I call triage carriers heroes.

Care to skill up Reading to at least III?
Zero price, lol. So sticking to the place, taking away the possibility of receiving help, smacking down the scan-resolution – that's nothing at all? That's the price dreads pay for their +840% (not 500) to the damage – their main value as of DPS ships. Just their DPS, not +840% DPS to themselves and +840% DPS to 2-3 other ships around.
And what the triage carrier with your new triage will pay for their personal +300% rep effectiveness on the other guy, and +infinite rep effectivess on themselves (you cannot compare fixed local rep and +300% to RR of every other carrier in fleet focused at you)?

Stop that idiotic analogy 'dread damage on the other target = carriers' spider-tank'. That's true only if carriers rep somebody other, not another carrier. A shooting dread boosts EHP of the fleet indirectly, because the wrecks don't do damage; carrier boosts EHP of the single targeted ship directly. The dread-fleet affects its survivability when they kill stuff, when they do for what they are here. Carrier spiderwanking fleet does not, its survivability remains the same whether they do their job, whether they save other (non-carrier) ships or not. (If we don't consider 'circumstance-tanking' – in my opinon, this is the main tanking layer of the capfleet: careful planning when and where to employ them. So, if we don't consider carriers saving friendly ships, when the maintained high count of red blinkies is the only thing that is not allowing your enemy to shoot the carriers. If we do, then again, the dreads kill directly, the carriers help themselves through their friends.) That's why these things are not the same.

Also, the dread-fleet can never be disabled by shooting one of the units. That's why they shine: if the enemy shoots one of them, others ignore it and continue to shoot. They soak damage and continue doing their job.
If the triage is kept as it is, this is the same for the triage carriers: some die, others continue to rep. If not, they have an option: either continue to rep and don't help, or refocus the reps onto the primaried one. They soak more damage and... that's all. They are useless to other fleetmates. Who the hell will focus an unkillable carrier, and will continue to throw his damage in the mud when then can focus another, more killable ship? They answer is: one who has only carriers in his overview. So this imploring to allow you rep through triage is just a miserable attempt to save your despicable ship when all your fleetmates proudly died in the failed operation, and all that is left is your carriers, whose execution was just postponed as a cheesecake. The prayer to warp in triage – the same.

What? You mean that somehow killing a ship doesn't reduce the damage (dps tank) of the fleet?

By your logic carriers and logistics cruisers are immune to alpha because the other ships continue to rep after one dies.

No, he's right, look. And that just confirms that DPS-tank is not quite the same as RR-tank, or local tank, or so.

Damage can be late: if you alpha a recently healed ship, it still dies and you're fine.

Late rep-alpha won't resurrect a ship from a wreck.

That's why it is always 'enough alpha = ignore enemy RR', and never 'enough reps = ignore enemy damage'.

[Beware, my personal view below]
Not most of the work – they do the crucial part. Something that no other person will do at the moment. Something they have courage for, and others don't. And it should be enormous, abnormal amounts or courage, that's why they die sometimes because they do something courageously stupid.

One can't be a fulltime-hero. The job can't be heroic. I don't say the job can't be incredibly important, but this is the actions that make the hero a hero, not his major... um... modus operandi. A firefighter is not a hero just because he is firefighter, he is because he saved somebody's life some day. And he is a hero for that day.

The heroes can work in groups, but then the group is the hero. It does not work that way that you join your local hero club, go save somebody with some other guys, and go away with your personal 'Hero' badge.
Somebody can become a hero themself alone, and somebody only together with somebody else alongside.

Okay, sorta got me with the range. And for the percent stuff... Let's use multipliers, like x4 for quadrupling.

Well said.

If Siege were a hero module just as triage is currently a hero module (for now), what would a hero dread in siege do? As a hero, he would have to be the main saving force of the team. Since there is no way for Siege to be hero mode, I propose that we change the triage to not operate as a "hero mode" either.