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Warfare & Tactics

 
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Make FW sov constellation based and spawn plex in ONE system only rotated at DT!

Author
Lexmana
#1 - 2012-08-06 10:11:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Lexmana
One way to increase the PvP/farming ratio in FW would be to make sovereignty constellation based with plexes spawning in one system only and rotate the system at DT. Contestation level is tied to the constellation. Grind the plexable system down and the whole constellation is vulnerable.

That would remove much of the grind and create hotspots where solo farmers have small chance of success but PvP fleets may take or defend whole constellations.

Rotating systems at DT will create tactical opportunities to try to make a push when the "right" system spawns the plexes.

Edited to clarify.

And farmers can still run missions as they used to do. They shouldn't be part of the sov war effort. It is just poor game design.
Dan Carter Murray
#2 - 2012-08-06 11:25:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Dan Carter Murray
Lexmana wrote:
One way to increase the PvP/farming ratio in FW would be to make sovereignty constellation based with plexes spawning in one system only and rotate the system at DT.

That would remove much of the grind and create hotspots where solo farmers have small chance of success but PvP fleets may take or defend whole constellations.

Rotating systems at DT will create tactical opportunities to try to make a push when the "right" system spawns the plexes.





If you don't want a system to be taken then move there.

Myyhera is still at 0% contested, right?

edit: systems w/o stations solution is: let them farm/flip it and then you farm/flip it back.

http://mfi.re/?j7ldoco 50GB free space @ MediaFire.com

Lexmana
#3 - 2012-08-06 11:31:30 UTC
Dan Carter Murray wrote:
If you don't want a system to be taken then move there.

Myyhera is still at 0% contested, right?

edit: systems w/o stations solution is: let them farm/flip it and then you farm/flip it back.

We currently live in Kourmonen thank you and Myyhera is highsec. But this thread was about reducing the grind while creating hotspots for PvP in the sovereignty war.

Farmers can still run missions as they used to do. They shouldn't be part of the war effort. It is just poor game design.
Dan Carter Murray
#4 - 2012-08-06 11:39:25 UTC
Lexmana wrote:
Dan Carter Murray wrote:
If you don't want a system to be taken then move there.

Myyhera is still at 0% contested, right?

edit: systems w/o stations solution is: let them farm/flip it and then you farm/flip it back.

We currently live in Kourmonen thank you and Myyhera is highsec. But this thread was about reducing the grind while creating hotspots for PvP in the sovereignty war.

Farmers can still run missions as they used to do. They shouldn't be part of the war effort. It is just poor game design.


You didn't say anything about mission running in your original post, but I agree that they shouldn't be part of the war effort.

You must have recently moved to Kourmonen.

You are correct that Myyhera, the system where the vast majority of your corp lived for the longest time, is in highsec.

PvP hotspot is created anywhere that have people living there.

If you want pvp then go start plexing a system where someone lives because they tend to not like that.

http://mfi.re/?j7ldoco 50GB free space @ MediaFire.com

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#5 - 2012-08-06 16:20:45 UTC
Lexmana wrote:
One way to increase the PvP/farming ratio in FW would be to make sovereignty constellation based with plexes spawning in one system only and rotate the system at DT.

That would remove much of the grind and create hotspots where solo farmers have small chance of success but PvP fleets may take or defend whole constellations.

Rotating systems at DT will create tactical opportunities to try to make a push when the "right" system spawns the plexes.



I think this might produce more pvp because people would know where others are plexing. The problem is that a single blob could stop the other side from doing anything on the plexing front by just sitting in the center of the constellation.

Why not just notifiy militias where plexes are being attacked but leave the places spread out so its not just blob wins?

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Lexmana
#6 - 2012-08-06 16:41:04 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Lexmana wrote:
One way to increase the PvP/farming ratio in FW would be to make sovereignty constellation based with plexes spawning in one system only and rotate the system at DT.

That would remove much of the grind and create hotspots where solo farmers have small chance of success but PvP fleets may take or defend whole constellations.

Rotating systems at DT will create tactical opportunities to try to make a push when the "right" system spawns the plexes.



I think this might produce more pvp because people would know where others are plexing. The problem is that a single blob could stop the other side from doing anything on the plexing front by just sitting in the center of the constellation.

Why not just notifiy militias where plexes are being attacked but leave the places spread out so its not just blob wins?


Yeah, I like the idea of notifications. At least within the current system it would improve things. But there would still be a long grind to plex and most of the time the end goal (flipping the system) is very far away. That is poor gameplay because the grind (and all the farmers doing it) is currently the deciding force in FW sov war.

Making only one system plexable in each constellation will create 10 different target systems in Amarr/minmatar. Winning any of these will have a significant impact on sov and it will probably stimulate more fighting over sov. And I don't think you can blob all 10 of them at the same time.

We still get fights now. That is not the issue. The issue is that sov today is decided by mindless grinding done by farmers and PvP is completely disconnected from the sov warfare (except in some rare situations). Why can't farmers run missions and leave sov warfare to PvP pilots? At least that is how the game should be designed.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#7 - 2012-08-06 16:46:14 UTC
-1. Bad idea. You wouldn't be able to target a specific system - and in some cases you would run out of time before taking the one you want.



Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#8 - 2012-08-06 16:52:27 UTC
No.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist

Lexmana
#9 - 2012-08-06 16:53:29 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
-1. Bad idea. You wouldn't be able to target a specific system - and in some cases you would run out of time before taking the one you want.

Ohh. My bad. OP wasn't clear enough. What I meant was that taking that one system would give you sov over the whole constellation. And the plexable system rotates at DT but contestation levels is for the whole constellation.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#10 - 2012-08-06 17:14:16 UTC
Lexmana wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
-1. Bad idea. You wouldn't be able to target a specific system - and in some cases you would run out of time before taking the one you want.

Ohh. My bad. OP wasn't clear enough. What I meant was that taking that one system would give you sov over the whole constellation. And the plexable system rotates at DT but contestation levels is for the whole constellation.


No.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#11 - 2012-08-06 17:17:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
Lexmana wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Lexmana wrote:
One way to increase the PvP/farming ratio in FW would be to make sovereignty constellation based with plexes spawning in one system only and rotate the system at DT.

That would remove much of the grind and create hotspots where solo farmers have small chance of success but PvP fleets may take or defend whole constellations.

Rotating systems at DT will create tactical opportunities to try to make a push when the "right" system spawns the plexes.



I think this might produce more pvp because people would know where others are plexing. The problem is that a single blob could stop the other side from doing anything on the plexing front by just sitting in the center of the constellation.

Why not just notifiy militias where plexes are being attacked but leave the places spread out so its not just blob wins?


Yeah, I like the idea of notifications. At least within the current system it would improve things. But there would still be a long grind to plex and most of the time the end goal (flipping the system) is very far away. That is poor gameplay because the grind (and all the farmers doing it) is currently the deciding force in FW sov war.

Making only one system plexable in each constellation will create 10 different target systems in Amarr/minmatar. Winning any of these will have a significant impact on sov and it will probably stimulate more fighting over sov. And I don't think you can blob all 10 of them at the same time.

We still get fights now. That is not the issue. The issue is that sov today is decided by mindless grinding done by farmers and PvP is completely disconnected from the sov warfare (except in some rare situations). Why can't farmers run missions and leave sov warfare to PvP pilots? At least that is how the game should be designed.



Ok I did misunderstand your proposal. I do think this is something that ccp should consider. How many plexes spawn where and how often. I am not sure the balance is correct at only 1 system per constellation. But I agree its not really clear that every system in every constellation should be spawning plexes equally either. It depends how many are involved in faction war.

If they do this with the no docking rule it might be a problem for the side that doesn't currently own that constellation. Its less of a problem now because you can pretty much dock next to or in every constellation and start plexing a nearby system. If this forces you several jumps in that could excerbate the problems.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Pinky Feldman
Amarrian Vengeance
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#12 - 2012-08-06 17:26:21 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Lexmana wrote:
One way to increase the PvP/farming ratio in FW would be to make sovereignty constellation based with plexes spawning in one system only and rotate the system at DT.

That would remove much of the grind and create hotspots where solo farmers have small chance of success but PvP fleets may take or defend whole constellations.

Rotating systems at DT will create tactical opportunities to try to make a push when the "right" system spawns the plexes.



I think this might produce more pvp because people would know where others are plexing. The problem is that a single blob could stop the other side from doing anything on the plexing front by just sitting in the center of the constellation.

Why not just notifiy militias where plexes are being attacked but leave the places spread out so its not just blob wins?


People seem to be so worried about blob warfare happening in faction warfare, but everything i've seen so far has shown that with the current mechanics, its not uncommon for a militia to form up under one fleet or "blob" and go around putting own the opposing militia's smaller fleets, until that militia decides to all get into one fleet or "blob", or disband entirely. So i'm not really sure how any new game mechanics are going to make things worse than they are now, since during from what I can see, any groups interested in working with each other already do and theres usually no more than 1-2 main fleets at any given time.

I have no opinion on the OP's proposal, but I thought i'd share my observation regarding peoples constant worries that FW will suddenly turn into blobfest 9000.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#13 - 2012-08-06 18:14:45 UTC
Pinky Feldman wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Lexmana wrote:
One way to increase the PvP/farming ratio in FW would be to make sovereignty constellation based with plexes spawning in one system only and rotate the system at DT.

That would remove much of the grind and create hotspots where solo farmers have small chance of success but PvP fleets may take or defend whole constellations.

Rotating systems at DT will create tactical opportunities to try to make a push when the "right" system spawns the plexes.



I think this might produce more pvp because people would know where others are plexing. The problem is that a single blob could stop the other side from doing anything on the plexing front by just sitting in the center of the constellation.

Why not just notifiy militias where plexes are being attacked but leave the places spread out so its not just blob wins?


People seem to be so worried about blob warfare happening in faction warfare, but everything i've seen so far has shown that with the current mechanics, its not uncommon for a militia to form up under one fleet or "blob" and go around putting own the opposing militia's smaller fleets, until that militia decides to all get into one fleet or "blob", or disband entirely. So i'm not really sure how any new game mechanics are going to make things worse than they are now, since during from what I can see, any groups interested in working with each other already do and theres usually no more than 1-2 main fleets at any given time.

I have no opinion on the OP's proposal, but I thought i'd share my observation regarding peoples constant worries that FW will suddenly turn into blobfest 9000.


I currently get allot of pvp that does not involve blobs through the current plexing mechanic. So I am pretty protective of that.

As for what has happened since inferno I think the no docking rule has increased the emphasis on blob warfare on the minmatar amarr front. Several corps used to run smaller gang roams thoughout all of the faction war territory. I-Law used to regularly take small gangs up to hror. I used to fight with lots of small gang minmatar in frerstorn.

After inferno that stopped due to the logistical problems caused by the no docking rule. (cant have minor bases in those areas and can't repair etc.) So now you can either do solo plexing for pvp or you can go to kourm in your biggest fleet. So to some extent the reason the faction war you see is already blobby is because ccp implented mechanics (like the no docking rule) without a concern how this would effect blobbing ftw.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Pinky Feldman
Amarrian Vengeance
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#14 - 2012-08-06 18:52:42 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Pinky Feldman wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Lexmana wrote:
One way to increase the PvP/farming ratio in FW would be to make sovereignty constellation based with plexes spawning in one system only and rotate the system at DT.

That would remove much of the grind and create hotspots where solo farmers have small chance of success but PvP fleets may take or defend whole constellations.

Rotating systems at DT will create tactical opportunities to try to make a push when the "right" system spawns the plexes.



I think this might produce more pvp because people would know where others are plexing. The problem is that a single blob could stop the other side from doing anything on the plexing front by just sitting in the center of the constellation.

Why not just notifiy militias where plexes are being attacked but leave the places spread out so its not just blob wins?


People seem to be so worried about blob warfare happening in faction warfare, but everything i've seen so far has shown that with the current mechanics, its not uncommon for a militia to form up under one fleet or "blob" and go around putting own the opposing militia's smaller fleets, until that militia decides to all get into one fleet or "blob", or disband entirely. So i'm not really sure how any new game mechanics are going to make things worse than they are now, since during from what I can see, any groups interested in working with each other already do and theres usually no more than 1-2 main fleets at any given time.

I have no opinion on the OP's proposal, but I thought i'd share my observation regarding peoples constant worries that FW will suddenly turn into blobfest 9000.


I currently get allot of pvp that does not involve blobs through the current plexing mechanic. So I am pretty protective of that.

As for what has happened since inferno I think the no docking rule has increased the emphasis on blob warfare on the minmatar amarr front. Several corps used to run smaller gang roams thoughout all of the faction war territory. I-Law used to regularly take small gangs up to hror. I used to fight with lots of small gang minmatar in frerstorn.

After inferno that stopped due to the logistical problems caused by the no docking rule. (cant have minor bases in those areas and can't repair etc.) So now you can either do solo plexing for pvp or you can go to kourm in your biggest fleet. So to some extent the reason the faction war you see is already blobby is because ccp implented mechanics (like the no docking rule) without a concern how this would effect blobbing ftw.


Perhaps, but I would also concede that the reason you see more "blobs" is simply because there are more groups in FW. If you get rid of all of the "new guard" groups that joined FW post-Inferno the "blob problem" would instantly go away and things would be back to how they were for I.law pre-Inferno. Perhaps I.law should go back to flying by themselves if blobbyness is becoming too much of a problem for them?

I think the biggest change regarding Faction Warfare and blobs is before, it was just PVP for PVP's sake. Since warzone control didn't matter, working together was never a huge deal since there were never any strategic goals that really mattered.
Dan Carter Murray
#15 - 2012-08-06 19:01:17 UTC
Click the E then click business then click Faction Warfare then look what systems are getting contested.

I don't want notifications I can check myself.

If you want to spin in station until you get a notification then I might add a picture to the "welcome to fw" album.

Maybe I'll make a different album called "bad ideas that nullbear alt corps present"

Also, don't people roam and report activities?

Also, read my second post...

http://mfi.re/?j7ldoco 50GB free space @ MediaFire.com

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#16 - 2012-08-06 22:31:53 UTC
Pinky Feldman wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Pinky Feldman wrote:

People seem to be so worried about blob warfare happening in faction warfare, but everything i've seen so far has shown that with the current mechanics, its not uncommon for a militia to form up under one fleet or "blob" and go around putting own the opposing militia's smaller fleets, until that militia decides to all get into one fleet or "blob", or disband entirely. So i'm not really sure how any new game mechanics are going to make things worse than they are now, since during from what I can see, any groups interested in working with each other already do and theres usually no more than 1-2 main fleets at any given time.

I have no opinion on the OP's proposal, but I thought i'd share my observation regarding peoples constant worries that FW will suddenly turn into blobfest 9000.


I currently get allot of pvp that does not involve blobs through the current plexing mechanic. So I am pretty protective of that.

As for what has happened since inferno I think the no docking rule has increased the emphasis on blob warfare on the minmatar amarr front. Several corps used to run smaller gang roams thoughout all of the faction war territory. I-Law used to regularly take small gangs up to hror. I used to fight with lots of small gang minmatar in frerstorn.

After inferno that stopped due to the logistical problems caused by the no docking rule. (cant have minor bases in those areas and can't repair etc.) So now you can either do solo plexing for pvp or you can go to kourm in your biggest fleet. So to some extent the reason the faction war you see is already blobby is because ccp implented mechanics (like the no docking rule) without a concern how this would effect blobbing ftw.


Perhaps, but I would also concede that the reason you see more "blobs" is simply because there are more groups in FW..


My impression is the opposite actually. There used to be more groups in faction war. There used to be a group of minmatar I would fight in frer. A group in and around todifraun and a group in dal as well as a group in arzad to name a few. Now most of those systems are empty when I pass through. A much larger percent of the fighting is in kourm.

I guess we could ask for some statistics, but I would be willing to bet that after inferno a much larger percentage of the fighting is happening 1 or 2 jumps from kourm than before inferno.

Pinky Feldman wrote:

If you get rid of all of the "new guard" groups that joined FW post-Inferno the "blob problem" would instantly go away and things would be back to how they were for I.law pre-Inferno. Perhaps I.law should go back to flying by themselves if blobbyness is becoming too much of a problem for them?.


I don't speak for I law. Allot of players in I law like the larger fleet fights that inferno brought. We are a fairly diverse group. We just like pvp, honor 1v1s, and don't mind going gcc.

If we fly in smaller groups we will find vast areas of minmatar space with no gangs to fight. Why? Because they aren't expecting us to come fight there for good reason. We won't be able to repair or reship if we lose some of our gang. The no docking rule has just changed things around allot. Now if you want to pvp in a gang you better get a big fleet because its pretty much kourm or gtfo. But again just my impression I would love to see statistics on the percent of faction war pvp that happens in kourm pre and post inferno.

Pinky Feldman wrote:
[
I think the biggest change regarding Faction Warfare and blobs is before, it was just PVP for PVP's sake. Since warzone control didn't matter, working together was never a huge deal since there were never any strategic goals that really mattered.



We have always had goals. We didn't get isk for achieving the goals but we always had goals. But really not much has changed.

Now the " sov goals" are just as far removed from the group pvp goals, it is really not much different. The only thing that changed pvp wise is the station lockouts means the fighting is less spread out.

Plus there are many more active people, so much more fighting in general. Inferno did a lot of good things and the increase in pvp is great while it lasts. It didn't do one important thing though. Bridge the gap between sov and pvp. They are still mostly 2 different arenas.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#17 - 2012-08-06 22:37:23 UTC
Dan Carter Murray wrote:
Click the E then click business then click Faction Warfare then look what systems are getting contested.

I don't want notifications I can check myself.


The faction war tells you what is contested but not where plexes are currently being attacked.

Dan Carter Murray wrote:

If you want to spin in station until you get a notification then I might add a picture to the "welcome to fw" album.

Maybe I'll make a different album called "bad ideas that nullbear alt corps present"

Also, don't people roam and report activities?...


Yes lots of roaming. Roaming roaming roaming. It has been "faction roaming" for years. Time to actually get more figting in "faction war."

If you are afraid the enemy will know where you are you shouldn't attack their military complex now should you?

Dan Carter Murray wrote:

Also, read my second post...

ok.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#18 - 2012-08-06 23:55:44 UTC
Dan Carter Murray wrote:
Lexmana wrote:
One way to increase the PvP/farming ratio in FW would be to make sovereignty constellation based with plexes spawning in one system only and rotate the system at DT.

That would remove much of the grind and create hotspots where solo farmers have small chance of success but PvP fleets may take or defend whole constellations.

Rotating systems at DT will create tactical opportunities to try to make a push when the "right" system spawns the plexes.





If you don't want a system to be taken then move there.

Myyhera is still at 0% contested, right?

edit: systems w/o stations solution is: let them farm/flip it and then you farm/flip it back.



Not sure why you wanted me to read this.

I guess I would say, you shouldn't be able to hide from your enemies while you are attacking their military complexes.


If you like hiding from war targets and fights you can run missions.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#19 - 2012-08-09 15:18:48 UTC
Fw has been alt war a long time already, current lp for plexes does not actually change anything, it just makes it more popular.