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A possible solution to AFK cloaky alts

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Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#81 - 2011-10-12 06:31:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyris Nairn
The Apostle wrote:

And a 10 hour destro alt cannot kill a half decent tank. Needs many more and local is a dead giveaway to a half decent player. Big smile

I don't see how this constitutes a contradiction. A half-decent player isn't going to fall victim to any of the things I've thus far mentioned because a half-decent player realizes that there are much better methods for acquiring space gold than grinding PVE or shooting rocks in space. It is much more likely that the individuals doing those activities are bots, or new or incompetent players.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#82 - 2011-10-12 06:31:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyris Nairn
The Apostle wrote:
Seatox wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Narffy wrote:
Don't allow ships to fit both a cyno and a cloak at the same time. That'll stop the cap ship drops and the cloaky can continue to have fun being afk.

No it won't.

If I am going to go through the trouble to park a cloaking alt in your system, then it's not that much trouble to park a second, logged-off character in system that has a cyno fit. All this change would accomplish is to delay the hotdrop by a few seconds and to dissuade those whom are not very dedicated to what they are doing.


And it takes a finite amount of time for a hot-drop to happen anyway. The titan pilot/supercap fleet/Blackops has to select the bridge to/jump to menu option, hit the relevant item, then if it's a bridging the ships in the fleet have to use the bridge - then they all have to load grid. Really, there's enough time for a properly paranoid victim of a drop to figure out what's happening. They might not be able to do anything about it if their ship is fat and slow, or they're a dumb bot (serves them right if they are), but a cyno != a doomsday.

At least, not since they took that stupid feature out years before I started playing EvE.

Best drops are paired. Both on target, one drops cyno, other points. Under 10 seconds to a good team. You virtually have to be mashing warp before the decloak even happens.

I am not sure at this point whether you are agreeing with me or disagreeing with me. Regardless, the point stands that you know about the danger prior to the attack occurring and you proceed to disregard that danger rather than relocating your activities to another system or rescheduling them for a time when the AFK cloaker is not in local.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Cherry Nobyl
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#83 - 2011-10-12 06:37:31 UTC
i like leaving flour on the floor by the gate and following the tracks left in space.

Shocked <- the look on the afk cloaky when i catch up to them.
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#84 - 2011-10-12 06:37:57 UTC
Seatox wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Narffy wrote:
Don't allow ships to fit both a cyno and a cloak at the same time. That'll stop the cap ship drops and the cloaky can continue to have fun being afk.

No it won't.

If I am going to go through the trouble to park a cloaking alt in your system, then it's not that much trouble to park a second, logged-off character in system that has a cyno fit. All this change would accomplish is to delay the hotdrop by a few seconds and to dissuade those whom are not very dedicated to what they are doing.


And it takes a finite amount of time for a hot-drop to happen anyway. The titan pilot/supercap fleet/Blackops has to select the bridge to/jump to menu option, hit the relevant item, then if it's a bridging the ships in the fleet have to use the bridge - then they all have to load grid. Really, there's enough time for a properly paranoid victim of a drop to figure out what's happening. They might not be able to do anything about it if their ship is fat and slow, or they're a dumb bot (serves them right if they are), but a cyno != a doomsday.

At least, not since they took that stupid feature out years before I started playing EvE.

This is pretty much congruent with my point, so I am going to go ahead and commandeer this post and plant my flag on it. AFK cloakers and the thread of either a hotdrop or a log-in trap are the worries of a particular type of individual. This individual is either a bot or someone who both sees the presence of the neutral/hostile in local and then elects to ignore its presence, ignore the directional scanner, remain in the same system, and be somewhere in space for an extended period with a ship that makes an inviting target. I am honestly not sure which category, bot or idiot, I'd prefer to be called were I the victim of an AFK cloaker, log-in trap or hotdrop. I'd probably claim that I was botting, just to save face.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
L Salander
All Web Investigations
#85 - 2011-10-12 06:38:49 UTC
The best solution is just ignore the cloaky alts
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#86 - 2011-10-12 06:39:37 UTC
L Salander wrote:
The best solution is just ignore the cloaky alts

+1 would like again

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Endeavour Starfleet
#87 - 2011-10-12 07:34:05 UTC
L Salander wrote:
The best solution is just ignore the cloaky alts


Until they uncloak and hotdrop on you.

Your silly solution is silly.


I will support the fuel bay idea. Tho I worry it might impact some legit deep scout operations.

In my opinion the best way is a rather expensive module that can only be fit on a destroyer (Tech 1 or 2) Hull. The purpose of this module would be launching a new type of probe that can unlock someone if a random point in space is located (A puzzle so to speak)

The difference is that each scan takes 10-20x the scan time of a normal probe and is heavily influenced by scanning skills. Also a warning flashes if someone is probing your cloak sig and warping away will cause the point to reset,

All this will do is remove the incentive to walk away from the keyboard while cloaked. You will have to check it once every few mins or so like people have to keep an eye on local today. This will balance the total power the AFK cloaker has and rewards the dedicated cloaker with being able to do serious recon as a benefit to his corp or alliance.

Remove the AFK cloak incentive leave local alone.
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#88 - 2011-10-12 08:10:03 UTC
This thread is like a magnet for bad ideas about fixing a problem that doesn't really exist.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Signal11th
#89 - 2011-10-12 08:14:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Signal11th
Ladie Harlot wrote:
This thread is like a magnet for bad ideas about fixing a problem that doesn't really exist.



^^This


Christ I can't believe people are still moaning about this!!, If it's AFK then you're in no danger only the danger your perceive to be there if their not AFK then they are doing their job!

What's the problem?

It's actually one of the ships that fits the role perfectly.


Basically all the people who complain about this, just go and live in a wormhole for a month or so and then come back to 0.0 and you'll then wonder what the fuss is all about.

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#90 - 2011-10-12 08:14:45 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
The Apostle wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


How is it an issue when people are making their isk while the afk cloaker just sits there and does nothing?

It is only the falt of the bears if they fail to organise themselves and just cower in station.

You're kidding right?

So if you were ratting in a PvE Tengu worth 100's of millions or a fleet of Hulks worth 100's of millions you'd be happy to accept the threat of a hotdrop at ANY tme?

You have absolutely no idea when - or if in all fairness - a drop could occur. You could put a 100 escorts in system and have every ratter/miner on watch list. By the time cyno is lit, drop made and bombs launched the escorts are only half way through warp to the screaming victim. And that's IF you're on the ball ready for it.

AFK cloakies kill systems. They know that - it's why it's done.


You must be in a horrible alliance if you cannot even organise a defence while bearing in you're own space.

A tengu is the best ratting ships going for survival and even my sluggish mael will be in warp before anything can point it. You can easily defend a system with 3-4 guys, I know this because I have defended systems on my own.
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2011-10-12 08:52:47 UTC
The Apostle wrote:
AFK cloakies kill systems. They know that - it's why it's done.



no, what kills systems is crybabies like you that can't or don't have any friends to help out.


you're supposed to be in nullsec, the most lawless of all space. stop acting like it's your own doorstep.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#92 - 2011-10-12 09:14:45 UTC
Grimpak wrote:
The Apostle wrote:
AFK cloakies kill systems. They know that - it's why it's done.



no, what kills systems is crybabies like you that can't or don't have any friends to help out.



Suicide is always going to be popular among people such as The Apostle. But I have a niggling suspicion that The Apostle will find something to complain about when it comes to his suicide like how hard it is for him.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
Dray
C.O.D.E
#93 - 2011-10-12 09:46:29 UTC
Until local is removed I don't care how much hate there is for afk cloakers leave them alone, it's a viable tactic against lazy or incompetent people, besides the tears are epic.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#94 - 2011-10-12 10:29:42 UTC
Nice way of you Trav to get trolls notice this.

There is a counter, fly in groups and never solo

Also if a person hotdrops you he isn't AFK (unless he is botting which is illegal) as he actively has to light the cyno on you.

Also if the person IS actually AFK, you can just go and do your thing to make ISK as he is AFK so won't notice you are actually ratting/mining/etc.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#95 - 2011-10-12 10:44:27 UTC
“Solving” AFK cloaking is easy — remove local. Then there is no AFK:ness to worry about. Until local is removed, AFK cloaking is not a problem, but a solution. It doesn't need a counter because it is itself a counter to the immensely overpowered intel mechanic that is local. You don't fix a counter by adding a counter-counter — you fix it by addressing the initial cause that makes that counter a necessity.

Everything else that people incorrectly attribute to the “problem” of AFK cloaking has nothing to do with AFK:ness or with cloaking, and can be solved by adding spool-up time to cynos and/or to jump engines.

So how about those people try to actually solve the right thing (if, indeed, even that one is a problem, which is debatable…)?
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#96 - 2011-10-12 10:52:57 UTC
One of the things in game that's working as intended and ppl want to change it, WTF?

Remove local probloem solved. Now you have to get your intel like the big boys.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Mistress Motion
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#97 - 2011-10-12 11:50:03 UTC
Signal11th wrote:
Basically all the people who complain about this, just go and live in a wormhole for a month or so and then come back to 0.0 and you'll then wonder what the fuss is all about.


1. You need probes to find WH sites, and probes can be dscanned.
2. You don't need probes to find nullsec sanctums etc. Just less than 10sec click and you're warping next to a target.

Or am I missing something here?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#98 - 2011-10-12 11:59:40 UTC
Mistress Motion wrote:
Or am I missing something here?
Yes: how the lack of local means that there is no such thing as “AFK cloaking” in w-space, and that.
Endeavour Starfleet
#99 - 2011-10-12 12:01:32 UTC
Removing Local is not a real solution to the AFK issue. Matter of fact it will mean even more risk free hotdrops. Not a solution.

To solve this issue you must remove the incentive to walk away from your computer while cloaked. To do this I propose a probe system that works by locating a random point in space. (With of course a large increase in scan time so it isn't abused to prevent legit intel operations with active players)

Once this point is located the cloak pilot is warned and if he doesn't warp away to reset the random point the ship will decloak. This will then allow people to use combat probes and kill the AFK pilot the same as any other AFK pilot in a hostile system.

This is a fair system that rewards the active pilot while removing the incentive to walk away from keyboard. However, I will support ideas such as a cloak fuel charge or long cloak module times that are not able to autorepeat. The issue of being able to walk away from keyboard with no risk in a hostile system needs to be solved tho I hope ways like mine can be considered that will have the least effect on legitimate intel operations.
Endeavour Starfleet
#100 - 2011-10-12 12:08:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Endeavour Starfleet
Ladie Harlot wrote:
This thread is like a magnet for bad ideas about fixing a problem that doesn't really exist.


The issue is it does exist. CCP can easily pull up the history to show the many AFK cloakers turning active and hotdropping resulting in almost free kills.

They can easily find the data that shows once the cyno is lit the force it it lit against has virtually no chance. This is similar to the data showing how it used to be in highsec where free ganks were not only free but profitable. Resulting in the CONCORD buff.

This is an issue and Winter 2011 is the perfect time to fix it in a fair way without throwing the nerf bat and seriously impacting the work of legit active players that are at their computers. While removing the incentive to walk away from your computer in hostile territory. There are good ideas to fix this real issue. And I can only hope CCP will consider them instead of more drastic measures to fix this issue.

Edit: Also now with Time dilation there is far more reason to actually go in and take the systems of your enemies. When there is no lagfest there will be a chance for real tactics. Remove the incentive to AFK cloak and reward those who use cloaks for moving through hostile territory in advance of the main fleets.