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Help with an all in one Null Sec, Worm-holing, exploration and salvage Tengu
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Dimitri Utrigas
The War Federation
#1 - 2012-08-03 21:35:19 UTC
Hi all, I'm not sure I'm posting this in the right place, but here I go.

I'm just getting back into EVE and starting from scratch, I am right now laying out a road map to how I am going to set my progress for the first bit of time.

Part of that goal is to put together a Tengu build to fit my needs. Now seeing as EVE has changed a lot from back in 2005, I need your help in figuring this all out.

So far the only thing I can figure out I need on the Tengu is the Emergent Locus Analyzer, Covert Reconfiguration, and Interdiction Nullifier. The Slot items I have figure to use are Probe Bay, Salvager, Cloak, Analyzer, and Codebreaker.

Now the issue is what to use to fill in the gaps in my build and what grade level of parts to use?

So please y'all, I could really use your help in this dream ship, I would be very grateful in your help.
Cap James Tkirk
Baba Yagas
The Initiative.
#2 - 2012-08-03 22:50:34 UTC
id usea drake instead of the tengu in a multifact role like that you will be able to perform some functions but none decently, if you can get a friend or alt to assit you with each of you focusing on a seperate part of the PvE basically one dps and one salvager/hacker/Archelolgist

the tengu your proposing is gonna fail due to lack of tank/dps

Stetson Eagle
Paird Technology
#3 - 2012-08-04 11:51:53 UTC
Does not work decently. You will need access to docking and re-fitting, because your DPS will be too low in a cloaky nullified fit. Too low as in exploration takes ages, when you need to kill spawns between cans.

A buzzard does the probing part faster, and a specialized tengu can speed tank and run most of the sites in a combat setup. If you need an all-in-one boat, look for Ishtar or Gila with the 6-10 slot probing implants.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-08-04 13:11:12 UTC
Stetson Eagle wrote:
Does not work decently. You will need access to docking and re-fitting, because your DPS will be too low in a cloaky nullified fit. Too low as in exploration takes ages, when you need to kill spawns between cans.

A buzzard does the probing part faster, and a specialized tengu can speed tank and run most of the sites in a combat setup. If you need an all-in-one boat, look for Ishtar or Gila with the 6-10 slot probing implants.


It is also now possible with the drone damage mods, to fit a nullified drone proteus setup that has about the same damage as an Ishtar, similar tank, and enough slots for the utility mods. Plus scanning sub for probes.
Dimitri Utrigas
The War Federation
#5 - 2012-08-04 19:48:52 UTC
Ok well how can I modify the Tengu so it can work? while still using the the Covert Reconfiguration and Interdiction Nullifier. Because I like a ship that can Plex in Nullsec and do exploration. So seeing as my last request as you all pointed out would fail at DPS. How can I build my Tengu to do that with the two subs I listed. I am not fun of having to do a lot of running back and forward to refit, so I like to keep it simple so I can have what I need already fitted.
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2012-08-04 20:06:21 UTC
Dimitri Utrigas wrote:
Ok well how can I modify the Tengu so it can work? while still using the the Covert Reconfiguration and Interdiction Nullifier. Because I like a ship that can Plex in Nullsec and do exploration. So seeing as my last request as you all pointed out would fail at DPS. How can I build my Tengu to do that with the two subs I listed. I am not fun of having to do a lot of running back and forward to refit, so I like to keep it simple so I can have what I need already fitted.

Covert Tengus are not DPS boats, plain and simple.
Dimitri Utrigas
The War Federation
#7 - 2012-08-04 22:28:40 UTC
Ok, hmmm, than what can I do to build an all in one exploring, worm-holing, Nullsec Tengu, that also won't get ganked?
Gabrielle Lamb
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2012-08-05 00:05:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Gabrielle Lamb
Dimitri Utrigas wrote:
Ok, hmmm, than what can I do to build an all in one exploring, worm-holing, Nullsec Tengu, that also won't get ganked?


http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/62241-Ninja-Tengu-with-good-DPS-and-Cloak.html - This, 650 DPS good Omnitank.
+
http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/25910-Cheetah-DNightmare-039-s-Daily-Life-Utility.html
=
Perfect

All in one Wormholes don't really work very well, cause the only ships truely suited for "All in one" are droneships really, but they don't work well in wormholes. Grab your second while the "Power of Two" compaign is active. Could also swap the subsystem on that Tengu for the one with a drone bay. Makes it easier to take out frigates without wasting ammo. Which for an all in one exploration ship is awesome.
Dimitri Utrigas
The War Federation
#9 - 2012-08-05 02:09:17 UTC
Thanks Gabrielle, that helps a lot, it also helped me on my research for a backup in-case the Tengu does not work.

Does anyone have a Scorpion/Rattlesnake or Vulture/Nighthawk build that can do All in one exploring worm-holing Null-Sec plexing?

I'm trying to think outside of the box sense you all nicely pointed out some things that I didn't quite understand. You all have been a lot nicer and more helpful than the people at Battle Clinic I asked for help.
Gabrielle Lamb
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2012-08-05 03:43:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Gabrielle Lamb
Dimitri Utrigas wrote:
Thanks Gabrielle, that helps a lot, it also helped me on my research for a backup in-case the Tengu does not work.

Does anyone have a Scorpion/Rattlesnake or Vulture/Nighthawk build that can do All in one exploring worm-holing Null-Sec plexing?

I'm trying to think outside of the box sense you all nicely pointed out some things that I didn't quite understand. You all have been a lot nicer and more helpful than the people at Battle Clinic I asked for help.


No ;p I'd say nobody does.

Not because you can't create a Scorp / Rattlesnake / Vulture / NH that can scan down / take out the plexes. Because the Rattlesnake for instance would be perfect for that because of the abundance of mids / lows / highs + drone bonus and all of that ****. But because there's no way you'd reliably survive 0.0 gatecamps in any of those ships, they're too slow. So again, you need a scout.

I mean think about it, all-in-one fits loose 2 or 3 (4 in 0.0) midslots and 2 (3 in WHs) highslots, there are very few ships that can loose that many slots and still manage to deal any substantial amount of damage and at the same time have an efficient tank combined with the ability to escape gatecamps. Especially not in WH space vs Sleepers due to their habit of near instant popping drones and the recuirement of having an Omnitank rather then a rat specific one.

In fact, the only ships I can think of capable of all of this is the Pilgrim, Ishtar, Proteus and Legion, and all have to fit rat-specific-tanks in order to survive with any degree of efficiency. Which simply put means that your only real choice is to go with two ships rather then one.

And yeah, Battleclinic users are generally a bunch of stuck up retards with little to no clue about the game. In simple terms builds there get up-or-downvoted based on their posters reputation among the userbase rather then whether the build is good or not. And the socalled highly reputable players there are generally people who spend all day long trolling bad fits and getting +'s there rather then post their own loadouts. In fact I've seen several people on battleclinic with 1000+ rep without having posted a single loadout and running around pretending to be fitting-gods when they really have no clue.

Best thing you can do is to play around with EFT yourself, use battleclinic for basic loadouts and tailor each of them properly towards your intended purpose. Post here or find some people with good game knowledge ingame or elsewhere. They're worth their weight in gold, but they're few and far between.
Dimitri Utrigas
The War Federation
#11 - 2012-08-05 04:32:00 UTC
Ok, that helps a lot, Thanks a lot. I guess now than my next question is with a Rattlesnake or Nighthawk build is, 1. Which one of those two would be good for Worm-holing and flying in Null-Sec, 2. What DPS and Volley Damage should I be looking to have at min, and 3. To still Plex properly; what can I afford to forgo in my all in one build and still be able to survive gankings and do exploring ok?

I was thinking of still keeping the Codebreaker and the Cloak, and scrap the analyzer and the Salvager. Still I'm not sure, I could use direction here.
Gabrielle Lamb
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2012-08-05 05:11:30 UTC
Dimitri Utrigas wrote:
Ok, that helps a lot, Thanks a lot. I guess now than my next question is with a Rattlesnake or Nighthawk build is, 1. Which one of those two would be good for Worm-holing and flying in Null-Sec, 2. What DPS and Volley Damage should I be looking to have at min, and 3. To still Plex properly; what can I afford to forgo in my all in one build and still be able to survive gankings and do exploring ok?

I was thinking of still keeping the Codebreaker and the Cloak, and scrap the analyzer and the Salvager. Still I'm not sure, I could use direction here.


You must've missread, cause I'm fairly sure I said neither of those ships would be getting out of any gatecamps anytime soon. You'd be webbed, scrammed and pinned down so fast it's not even funny. And even if you managed to escape through portal you'd be webbed, scrammed and pinned down on the other side of the gate before you could manage warping away.

I reccomend reading this:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=30338
Dimitri Utrigas
The War Federation
#13 - 2012-08-05 12:34:46 UTC
Thanks, and yes It dose seem like I miss read, thanks. The Ninja Plex seems like just what I am looking for, now my next question is, Are there any Caldari Ships that can pull it off too other than Tengu?
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-08-05 13:11:42 UTC
Dimitri Utrigas wrote:
Thanks, and yes It dose seem like I miss read, thanks. The Ninja Plex seems like just what I am looking for, now my next question is, Are there any Caldari Ships that can pull it off too other than Tengu?


No,

Well maybe the Gila, Which isn't technically caldari, but uses the skills.

Basically it is close to impossible to make an all in one fit from a non-drone ship. And IMO generally an armor tank is going to be a better all in one than shield.

Anything you put in the highs (cloak, probe launcher, salvager) takes away DPS slots from a turret ship.
Anything you put in the mids (codebreaker, analyser) takes away from a shield tank.
Dimitri Utrigas
The War Federation
#15 - 2012-08-05 14:48:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Dimitri Utrigas
Thanks, even though the Gila is ugly as sin. :P

I'll give it a look to see if it plays the way I am looking. Push come to shove though, I can build a Tengu to do the job I seek too, I'm just trying to get all my info together.

Ok, last question is, what is the best way to do Plexing in Null-Sec and in Wormholes in general and in a Gila?
Gabrielle Lamb
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2012-08-05 15:38:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Gabrielle Lamb
Derath Ellecon wrote:

Anything you put in the highs (cloak, probe launcher, salvager) takes away DPS slots from a turret ship.
Anything you put in the mids (codebreaker, analyser) takes away from a shield tank.


And this leaves you with very few slots to fill other purposes such as cap rechargers / batteries and so on which leaves you cap unstable or strained on slots. Pretty much making sure that you're too low on low-slots to fit items such as BCU's or Drone Damage Amplifiers.

Of course there are ships that can do this with expensive modules but if you're flying solo with no scout, it's only a matter of time before you get caught and killed in a gatecamp. Which means it's unprofitable.

Dual acc, it's the only real way outside of droneships.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2012-08-05 19:05:41 UTC
Gabrielle Lamb wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:

Anything you put in the highs (cloak, probe launcher, salvager) takes away DPS slots from a turret ship.
Anything you put in the mids (codebreaker, analyser) takes away from a shield tank.


And this leaves you with very few slots to fill other purposes such as cap rechargers / batteries and so on which leaves you cap unstable or strained on slots. Pretty much making sure that you're too low on low-slots to fit items such as BCU's or Drone Damage Amplifiers.

Of course there are ships that can do this with expensive modules but if you're flying solo with no scout, it's only a matter of time before you get caught and killed in a gatecamp. Which means it's unprofitable.

Dual acc, it's the only real way outside of droneships.



Not entirely sure what you are getting at with this. I wasn't saying you put all of those mods on a ship. Just that they are the types of mods that will sacrifice your DPS or shield tank on a non drone ship.

An ishtar fit similar to the one in the ninja nullsec thread (linked above) works quite well. Keep an analyzer in the hold just in case.

Either way, a Tengu is going to sacrifice DPS and tank to try and achieve the same thing.

And to the the OP. Solo Tengu in a WH without a scout WILL become a juicy killmail.
Dimitri Utrigas
The War Federation
#18 - 2012-08-05 21:26:51 UTC
Dimitri Utrigas wrote:
Thanks, even though the Gila is ugly as sin. :P

I'll give it a look to see if it plays the way I am looking. Push come to shove though, I can build a Tengu to do the job I seek too, I'm just trying to get all my info together.

Ok, last question is, what is the best way to do Plexing in Null-Sec and in Wormholes in general and in a Gila?


Ok all good points still my question in the quote above is me trying to gear towards solving those issues, by scrapping my Tengu idea.
Bibosikus
Air
#19 - 2012-08-05 21:47:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Bibosikus
tbh mate you seem to be wanting to run before you can walk.

Null and W-space are very, very different fish. In Null, you can watch local and tank against regional rats. In w-space, you get neither of those luxuries.

I'd suggest you start with one or t'other. For w-space, maybe fit the nullifier but don't bother with the cloaky sub if you're raiding from highsec. For null you'll need both. But you won't be able to run high-end complexes. Radars & mag sites shouldn't be a problem though, and they can be pretty lucrative.

Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
Dimitri Utrigas
The War Federation
#20 - 2012-08-05 22:13:06 UTC
Ok, thanks Bibosikus that is info well needed. See that's why I like this forum, you all are not trolling and bullying me, but explaining things I didn't get till now. Ok now that I guess means my question is, what would be a good Ninja all in one Plexer for Null-Sec, and what would be a good Ninja all in one Plexer for wormhole space seeing that both behave different? That is if I can Ninja or all in one in Wormhole space?
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