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Limit the ASB to one per ship
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PinkKnife
The Cuddlefish
Ethereal Dawn
#21 - 2012-07-30 22:53:12 UTC
Nakaota Auduin wrote:
I wish the EFT warriors would stop spewing garbage about "overpowered" modules they have never used.


Wait, you mean Blasters aren't the best guns in the game? But they have such high DPS!
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#22 - 2012-07-30 23:05:03 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Simi Kusoni wrote:

I think people are focusing on those fits because he posted two of them, and because he put point etc. on the rattlesnake and called it "more realistic". I presume people thought he was seriously proposing it as a viable fit.

Anyway, to get back to the topic, I don't think limiting the ASBs to one per ship is the best solution. That would render them entirely useless, I think a better solution (presuming you can prove there is a problem) would be to tweak the rate of booster consumption.

I was also under the impression that cap booster 400s meant that you still had to use some capacitor to activate the module? I don't use ASBs myself so im unsure (although I've fought against them on a few of my characters), if anyone could verify that that would be great. And if that isn't currently how it works, perhaps it should be?

I'm still not convinced ASBs are OP though, sure they aren't beatable 1v1 by buffer tanked ships, but when did CCP start balancing Eve around 1v1s? And what's so bad about hard counters?


400's run the ASB booster just the same as 800's. The only difference between using 400's or 800's in an XL-ASB, is you can't fit nor store as many 800 boosters as you can 400 boosters (which is a HUGE disadvantage to using 800's over 400's).

One ASB per ship is NOT overpowered... and is totally fine.... 2 or more ASB's grow excessive very quickly, and that's before bling, drugs, or implants... The RS fit I posted is not one I'd use, but it definitely has the right components to be viable for many station-hugging pirates.

On a more serious note: ASB's are fundamentally altering the solo and small gang pvp environment. This is generally a good thing, but I think multiple asb fit ships may actually break that environment due to their over-tanking ability (they haven't yet). Changing the consumption mechanics of cap boosters, or cycle times, or whatever are also good ways to tweak it. There are lots of options, I just figured limiting the number of ASB's like we limit damage controls would be easy to implement.

Hmm, tbh I haven't seen a viable single ASB set up yet so I probably would go down that path. It would just render the module obsolete.

Then again I also wouldn't call that rattlesnake viable. Sure it isn't bad for station games, but what's the difference between that and an HG slave faction BS? And who cares about stations games?

I'm still not convinced ASBs are that awesome beyond solo stuff, and even then they'll generally die to a decent traditional booster setup. Only thing that needs tweaking IMHO is item meta levels, and introduce some dead space ASBs. (As in, the deadspace have the stats of the current ASBs, and the current ones get downgraded)

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
#23 - 2012-07-31 00:19:03 UTC
Ganthrithor wrote:

Basically ASBs are going to bring Garmon-fit-like tanking abilities to any moron who can figure out how to right click > fit ASB to ship. Active tanking used to let people do wild things provided they had plenty of resources, theorycrafting ability, and skill in combat (knowing when to run what mods, micro-managing cap injection, etc). Now all it's going to take is buying a single T1 module.

So true.

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.
Obsidiana
Atrament Inc.
#24 - 2012-07-31 00:19:26 UTC
Here are my observations:

1. Unless you have 7 mid slots, you cannot get full tackle and a decent tank. You really need 4 slots for a respectable tank; you need 3 to tackle. Sacrifice speed/web mods and your prey gets away. Very few shield tankers can do this.

2. Shields use active omni-resistance hardeners. Cap-drain turns those off, drastically reducing tanking. An ASB balances with cap-drain-proof armor omni-resistance mods.

3. In ATX (Alliance Tournament 10) there was a one ASB rule. ASBs were used a lot, showing what a powerful module it is. Once the module ran out, the ship was defenseless. The ship died quickly and cap-drain quickened the pace. The ship went from over-powered to under-powered.

4. There is a lot of room for pilot error. If you boost too often, you waste potential HP. Using an ASB wrong can get you killed.

My suggestion: Raise the fitting requirements on the ASB so that it is harder to fit them.

A trial would be double the PG (leave the CPU). Maybe even raise it more. A “one module per ship rule” is only one way to restrict usage. A pilot should be able to choose two lower power versions, sacrificing other tanking or tackle modules.



Side note: Ever since I started EVE, shield tanking was always scoffed at by my peers. This is the first time active shield tanking has seemed useful to a broad audience. It needs to be balanced, but not set back to what it was.

My hope is that this will boost Amarr. Using cap-drain to turn off hardeners and EM/Thermal damage to naturally weak shields will be effective against an ASB ship.

Btw, ECM the quadruple ASB Golem and you win.
Captain Nares
O3 Corporation
#25 - 2012-08-05 14:25:30 UTC
Obsidiana wrote:
Here are my observations:

1. Unless you have 7 mid slots, you cannot get full tackle and a decent tank. You really need 4 slots for a respectable tank; you need 3 to tackle. Sacrifice speed/web mods and your prey gets away. Very few shield tankers can do this.

7? 4-5...
4 for tank? 2 for dual ASB is enogugh.
3 to tackle? 1 for point is enough.
Obsidiana wrote:

2. Shields use active omni-resistance hardeners. Cap-drain turns those off, drastically reducing tanking. An ASB balances with cap-drain-proof armor omni-resistance mods.

Show me drain-proof armor reps.
Obsidiana wrote:

3. In ATX (Alliance Tournament 10) there was a one ASB rule. ASBs were used a lot, showing what a powerful module it is. Once the module ran out, the ship was defenseless. The ship died quickly and cap-drain quickened the pace. The ship went from over-powered to under-powered.

1) There was 1 ASB rule.
2) ATX and solo/small gang are different things. For example ASB doesn't affect large-scale pvp at all, does it become okay coz of this? Thing which ruins solo is imperceptible in large-scale pvp.
Obsidiana wrote:

4. There is a lot of room for pilot error. If you boost too often, you waste potential HP. Using an ASB wrong can get you killed.

Especially when 2 ASB's run non-stop Smile
Suddenly Forums ForumKings
Doomheim
#26 - 2012-08-05 15:23:17 UTC
Its amazing how the armorbears show up to bash the module that makes active shield tanking viable again.

Adapt.
Obsidiana
Atrament Inc.
#27 - 2012-08-06 20:42:29 UTC
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:
It’s amazing how the armorbears show up to bash the module that makes active shield tanking viable again.

Adapt.

We're going to see a lot of this. All a person has to do is run out of charges and they will die soon after. The cargo hold needs both ammo and cap charges. Two or more makes those charges run out even faster (again, ECM the stupid Marauder). I saw your similar comment on a thread were a person complained that a T1 frigate couldn't kill a T2 cruiser. They really are coming out of the woodwork.
PhantomTrojan
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2012-08-07 02:56:12 UTC
Obsidiana wrote:
Here are my observations:

1. Unless you have 7 mid slots, you cannot get full tackle and a decent tank. You really need 4 slots for a respectable tank; you need 3 to tackle. Sacrifice speed/web mods and your prey gets away. Very few shield tankers can do this.

2. Shields use active omni-resistance hardeners. Cap-drain turns those off, drastically reducing tanking. An ASB balances with cap-drain-proof armor omni-resistance mods.

3. In ATX (Alliance Tournament 10) there was a one ASB rule. ASBs were used a lot, showing what a powerful module it is. Once the module ran out, the ship was defenseless. The ship died quickly and cap-drain quickened the pace. The ship went from over-powered to under-powered.

4. There is a lot of room for pilot error. If you boost too often, you waste potential HP. Using an ASB wrong can get you killed.

My suggestion: Raise the fitting requirements on the ASB so that it is harder to fit them.

A trial would be double the PG (leave the CPU). Maybe even raise it more. A “one module per ship rule” is only one way to restrict usage. A pilot should be able to choose two lower power versions, sacrificing other tanking or tackle modules.



Side note: Ever since I started EVE, shield tanking was always scoffed at by my peers. This is the first time active shield tanking has seemed useful to a broad audience. It needs to be balanced, but not set back to what it was.

My hope is that this will boost Amarr. Using cap-drain to turn off hardeners and EM/Thermal damage to naturally weak shields will be effective against an ASB ship.

Btw, ECM the quadruple ASB Golem and you win.


as you said you only need 3-4 asb/invul/hardener slots for tank and 2-3 for tackle scram/mwd/web, its the same for armor. 1 ASB should be enough and if you hace enough space fit a normal shield booster, the limit of 1 per ship should fix that. Most pvp fights end under 2 minutes and multi asb make you unkillable for around 1 minute or more! thats freaking ridiculous but if ccp dont nerf them im maxing shield anyway and will have op fun while i can.
The new armor mod kinda suck, you will be at 20% armor before it hits its maximun resist hole glue and compared to asb ******* suck.

The new armor mod kinda suck, you will be at 20% armor before it hits its maximun resist and compared to asb suck.
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