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Developer Comments on Mining Crystals and Cargo Capacity?

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Pipa Porto
#421 - 2012-08-03 19:48:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Infinite Force wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
You have an orca with a massive cargo bay and a massive corp bay. Put the crystals in there.

When you have to start hauling around ammo in a hauler for PvP roams.

"Use an Orca" is about the lamest excuse you can use anymore.


You mean like BLOPSing Bombers have to?

If you don't want to use the Orca to carry your crystals for the Ship designed to need coddling to get it's high yield, then use one of the ships not designed to need coddling.

Or, use T1 Strips.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Jagoff Haverford
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#422 - 2012-08-03 19:50:46 UTC
Well, for better or for worse, the patch notes are out. The Hulk cargo bay will stay at 350 m3.

So, how big will mining crystals be? Well, that's the very best part. Despite the fact that we've all been hashing this out for over 20 pages at this point. Despite the fact that there are at least 3 or 4 other threads where an equivalent amount of discussion has gone on. Despite the fact that a developer actually responded in this thread, demonstrating that CCP knows that this is an issue of some concern.

Despite all that, there isn't even a single mention of how large the crystals will be. For all we know, they will stay at 50 m3 the way they are on Tranquility right now. Or maybe not.

I wish I could say that I'm surprised that the patch notes fail to address crystal size. But communication has never been this company's strong suit.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#423 - 2012-08-03 19:51:46 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Infinite Force wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
You have an orca with a massive cargo bay and a massive corp bay. Put the crystals in there.

When you have to start hauling around ammo in a hauler for PvP roams.

"Use an Orca" is about the lamest excuse you can use anymore.


We call them Bomb runners and ammo trains. My ammo train is a badger II with ECM and a probe launcher.

Now let me tell you about these things called cap boosters...
Anvil44
Quantshure
#424 - 2012-08-03 19:53:53 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Anvil44 wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
it's not like we're asking for anything special with regards to mining crystals, we're simply asking ccp not to make a perfectly fine situation a pointlessly cumbersome and unintuitive one.

is it really that bad that we're asking that?

According to the latest blog about the change, yes. Guess you can put theory-craft behind and look at real world results to see how it goes...in just 5 short days.

marvelous, mining is now even less fun than before.

Sure hope it doesn't end up being so for you. I don't know exactly how we'll handle our WH mining ops but since I actually solo jet-can mine in a wh from time to time (having a tank is pretty much useless there, if you get caught chances are good you don't get away) I find the new Mack and the new Skiff to suddenly be more than dust collection objects as we almost never did Mercoxit (wasn't worth the time if we had Arkonor) and we didn't get too many chances to ice mine (which we would do for fuel when possible).
My high-sec alt can now mine ice for more than one cycle and only 2 units of ice(as he still can't use a Covetor, the training time is very long and once you can get into a Covetor, it's just a hop-skip and jump into the Hulk or Mack) using a Retriever and if I feel I have to worry about ganking I can use a Procurer or pretty soon a Skiff and still not be wasting my time.
These changes open up possibilities and allow me to modify most of my mining to match my current play-style desires and needs. I'm excited for the changes. Plus, I am starting to think lots of players will be slow to catch on to the changes and will not all do things the same way as different people will see different advantages. Some will still go for max yield, others will love the huge cargo hold and yet others will love not having to worry so much about getting ganked - especially if there are some Hulks sitting close by.

I may not like you or your point of view but you have a right to voice it.
Infinite Force
#425 - 2012-08-03 19:55:40 UTC
Jagoff Haverford wrote:
Well, for better or for worse, the patch notes are out. The Hulk cargo bay will stay at 350 m3.

So, how big will mining crystals be? Well, that's the very best part. Despite the fact that we've all been hashing this out for over 20 pages at this point. Despite the fact that there are at least 3 or 4 other threads where an equivalent amount of discussion has gone on. Despite the fact that a developer actually responded in this thread, demonstrating that CCP knows that this is an issue of some concern.

Despite all that, there isn't even a single mention of how large the crystals will be. For all we know, they will stay at 50 m3 the way they are on Tranquility right now. Or maybe not.

I wish I could say that I'm surprised that the patch notes fail to address crystal size. But communication has never been this company's strong suit.

Crystals are 15 & 25 m3 -- on SiSi now.

HROLT CEO Live Free; Die Proud

http://tinyurl.com/95zmyzw - The only way to go!
Dave Stark
#426 - 2012-08-03 19:57:15 UTC
Anvil44 wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Anvil44 wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
it's not like we're asking for anything special with regards to mining crystals, we're simply asking ccp not to make a perfectly fine situation a pointlessly cumbersome and unintuitive one.

is it really that bad that we're asking that?

According to the latest blog about the change, yes. Guess you can put theory-craft behind and look at real world results to see how it goes...in just 5 short days.

marvelous, mining is now even less fun than before.

Sure hope it doesn't end up being so for you.


i fail to see how it won't."you can now get the same yield for more effort" thanks ccp!
it's like my boss asking me to work on saturdays for no pay.

oh and sup with those ice numbers, numbers we got on sisi were higher than that dev blog... wonder what they're nerfing.
MIrple
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#427 - 2012-08-03 19:57:29 UTC
Jagoff Haverford wrote:
Well, for better or for worse, the patch notes are out. The Hulk cargo bay will stay at 350 m3.

So, how big will mining crystals be? Well, that's the very best part. Despite the fact that we've all been hashing this out for over 20 pages at this point. Despite the fact that there are at least 3 or 4 other threads where an equivalent amount of discussion has gone on. Despite the fact that a developer actually responded in this thread, demonstrating that CCP knows that this is an issue of some concern.

Despite all that, there isn't even a single mention of how large the crystals will be. For all we know, they will stay at 50 m3 the way they are on Tranquility right now. Or maybe not.

I wish I could say that I'm surprised that the patch notes fail to address crystal size. But communication has never been this company's strong suit.


The new crystals will be 15 m3 for T1 and 25 m3 for T2
Dave Stark
#428 - 2012-08-03 19:59:17 UTC
Infinite Force wrote:
Jagoff Haverford wrote:
Well, for better or for worse, the patch notes are out. The Hulk cargo bay will stay at 350 m3.

So, how big will mining crystals be? Well, that's the very best part. Despite the fact that we've all been hashing this out for over 20 pages at this point. Despite the fact that there are at least 3 or 4 other threads where an equivalent amount of discussion has gone on. Despite the fact that a developer actually responded in this thread, demonstrating that CCP knows that this is an issue of some concern.

Despite all that, there isn't even a single mention of how large the crystals will be. For all we know, they will stay at 50 m3 the way they are on Tranquility right now. Or maybe not.

I wish I could say that I'm surprised that the patch notes fail to address crystal size. But communication has never been this company's strong suit.

Crystals are 15 & 25 m3 -- on SiSi now.


have been for as long as the hulk's cargo was 350, we said we didn't have room for crystals ccp did some thing about it (reduced crystal size) then went "lol jokes" and nerfed the hulk's cargo bay.

i guess at least we get an extra 1k on the ore hold as compensation, not that it really helps when it's still not enough room for two cycles, we just get more redundant space.
Infinite Force
#429 - 2012-08-03 20:06:03 UTC
Dave stark wrote:

have been for as long as the hulk's cargo was 350, we said we didn't have room for crystals ccp did some thing about it (reduced crystal size) then went "lol jokes" and nerfed the hulk's cargo bay.

i guess at least we get an extra 1k on the ore hold as compensation, not that it really helps when it's still not enough room for two cycles, we just get more redundant space.

Yup -- nothing better than having CCP actually listen to its player base once again.

HROLT CEO Live Free; Die Proud

http://tinyurl.com/95zmyzw - The only way to go!
Dave Stark
#430 - 2012-08-03 20:26:40 UTC
Infinite Force wrote:
Dave stark wrote:

have been for as long as the hulk's cargo was 350, we said we didn't have room for crystals ccp did some thing about it (reduced crystal size) then went "lol jokes" and nerfed the hulk's cargo bay.

i guess at least we get an extra 1k on the ore hold as compensation, not that it really helps when it's still not enough room for two cycles, we just get more redundant space.

Yup -- nothing better than having CCP actually listen to its player base once again.


i used to think people in gd were so far under a bridge....

then ccp rebalanced exhumers and now the king of trolls has emerged. ccp troll, best troll. worst thing is; it's not even trolling this is what's going live.
Mocktar Olachenko
#431 - 2012-08-03 20:50:17 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
i fail to see how it won't."you can now get the same yield for more effort" thanks ccp!
it's like my boss asking me to work on saturdays for no pay.


Funnily enough, in Eve, as in real life, if you don't like the job you have you are free to go find a new one. Nerfs happen - adapt, overcome, and htfu.
Ginseng Jita
PAN-EVE TRADING COMPANY
#432 - 2012-08-03 20:59:48 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
In the Hulk you really do not need to store that many crystals. A couple of spares for the ore you are mining, and 4 or 5 for the next ore you are going to mine. Once you move to the new ore you need to off load the old crystals and get a few new ones for the next ore type. If you are in a fleet with orca or hauler support you can get the new crystals from those haulers or orca. You do that in the middle of a mining cycle so you got plenty of time. If you use a jet can, the orca or hauler pickes up the old ones from the can and drops the new ones in. With an orca, you can use the corp hangar. If you are solo, you will be docking alot, and that gives you a chance to get crystals.

Having a bigger cargo is thus just a convenience, not a show stopper. That said, I would like convenience of a 500 cu m hold on the Hulk too, but can live with a 350 cu m hold and 25 cu m crystals ( room for 13 ).

BTW, everyone knows that you can drag a crystal straight from an orca corp hangar to the miner, with no need to first put it in your hold?


Yes you can drag it right from the Orca to your hulks strip miner.
Dave Stark
#433 - 2012-08-03 21:17:53 UTC
Mocktar Olachenko wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
i fail to see how it won't."you can now get the same yield for more effort" thanks ccp!
it's like my boss asking me to work on saturdays for no pay.


Funnily enough, in Eve, as in real life, if you don't like the job you have you are free to go find a new one. Nerfs happen - adapt, overcome, and htfu.


i don't disagree with what you've said.

when all is said and done, it's a game. games are meant to be fun, intentionally making some thing less fun...i just don't get it.
Pipa Porto
#434 - 2012-08-04 00:07:50 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Mocktar Olachenko wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
i fail to see how it won't."you can now get the same yield for more effort" thanks ccp!
it's like my boss asking me to work on saturdays for no pay.


Funnily enough, in Eve, as in real life, if you don't like the job you have you are free to go find a new one. Nerfs happen - adapt, overcome, and htfu.


i don't disagree with what you've said.

when all is said and done, it's a game. games are meant to be fun, intentionally making some thing less fun...i just don't get it.


If you're concerned about how "fun" your mining is, use a Mackinaw or a Skiff. They both have plenty of space for crystals.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Dave Stark
#435 - 2012-08-04 07:12:57 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Mocktar Olachenko wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
i fail to see how it won't."you can now get the same yield for more effort" thanks ccp!
it's like my boss asking me to work on saturdays for no pay.


Funnily enough, in Eve, as in real life, if you don't like the job you have you are free to go find a new one. Nerfs happen - adapt, overcome, and htfu.


i don't disagree with what you've said.

when all is said and done, it's a game. games are meant to be fun, intentionally making some thing less fun...i just don't get it.


If you're concerned about how "fun" your mining is, use a Mackinaw or a Skiff. They both have plenty of space for crystals.


please, if i'm in a ship with that much cargo space i'm not even going to be looking at the eve client, i'm going to be watching a film. just because ccp made hulk mining even more dull and tedious doesn't mean regular mining suddenly became the go-to activity for adrenaline junkies.

not to mention; we're not gaining any thing for this horror.
Pipa Porto
#436 - 2012-08-05 00:11:04 UTC
Dave stark wrote:


please, if i'm in a ship with that much cargo space i'm not even going to be looking at the eve client, i'm going to be watching a film. just because ccp made hulk mining even more dull and tedious doesn't mean regular mining suddenly became the go-to activity for adrenaline junkies.

not to mention; we're not gaining any thing for this horror.


That is entirely your choice, and unfortunately, CCP has screwed up, so that choice to not bother actually looking at the game you're "playing" is a perfectly safe one.

You're gaining 5 (well, really 1) newly viable ore mining ships, and a Hulk that mines more and tanks harder. And you're complaining that you didn't get anything?

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Dave Stark
#437 - 2012-08-05 06:51:00 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Dave stark wrote:


please, if i'm in a ship with that much cargo space i'm not even going to be looking at the eve client, i'm going to be watching a film. just because ccp made hulk mining even more dull and tedious doesn't mean regular mining suddenly became the go-to activity for adrenaline junkies.

not to mention; we're not gaining any thing for this horror.


That is entirely your choice, and unfortunately, CCP has screwed up, so that choice to not bother actually looking at the game you're "playing" is a perfectly safe one.

You're gaining 5 (well, really 1) newly viable ore mining ships, and a Hulk that mines more and tanks harder. And you're complaining that you didn't get anything?


tank has never been an issue in regards to rats, and the hulk doesn't mine more it mines exactly the same as it does now.

remind me, what have we actually gained in exchange for this crystal abomination?
Pipa Porto
#438 - 2012-08-05 07:21:18 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Dave stark wrote:


please, if i'm in a ship with that much cargo space i'm not even going to be looking at the eve client, i'm going to be watching a film. just because ccp made hulk mining even more dull and tedious doesn't mean regular mining suddenly became the go-to activity for adrenaline junkies.

not to mention; we're not gaining any thing for this horror.


That is entirely your choice, and unfortunately, CCP has screwed up, so that choice to not bother actually looking at the game you're "playing" is a perfectly safe one.

You're gaining 5 (well, really 1) newly viable ore mining ships, and a Hulk that mines more and tanks harder. And you're complaining that you didn't get anything?


tank has never been an issue in regards to rats, and the hulk doesn't mine more it mines exactly the same as it does now.

remind me, what have we actually gained in exchange for this crystal abomination?


For a while you did get more. Guess they noticed that the Hulk didn't need it.

This is intended to be a Rebalance, not a straight Buff. In Rebalancing, OP ships tend to get nerfed, and underpowered ships tend to get boosted. Apparently, CCP didn't want the Hulk to be able to do everything the best. The crystals thing (which only is non-trivial in some fantastically contrived scenarios) fits in perfectly with the Hulk being a fussy machine needing constant care and attention to work at capacity, while the Mack can float around and let you do whatever.

So, you got 1 extra viable mining barge. From the number of Cargo expanded Hulks on the KBs, I expect it will be popular. CCP was going for 3 viable mining barges, not 2, but you guys whined hard enough so they nerfed the Skiff into the ground.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Dave Stark
#439 - 2012-08-05 07:25:53 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Dave stark wrote:


please, if i'm in a ship with that much cargo space i'm not even going to be looking at the eve client, i'm going to be watching a film. just because ccp made hulk mining even more dull and tedious doesn't mean regular mining suddenly became the go-to activity for adrenaline junkies.

not to mention; we're not gaining any thing for this horror.


That is entirely your choice, and unfortunately, CCP has screwed up, so that choice to not bother actually looking at the game you're "playing" is a perfectly safe one.

You're gaining 5 (well, really 1) newly viable ore mining ships, and a Hulk that mines more and tanks harder. And you're complaining that you didn't get anything?


tank has never been an issue in regards to rats, and the hulk doesn't mine more it mines exactly the same as it does now.

remind me, what have we actually gained in exchange for this crystal abomination?


For a while you did get more. Guess they noticed that the Hulk didn't need it.

This is intended to be a Rebalance, not a straight Buff. In Rebalancing, OP ships tend to get nerfed, and underpowered ships tend to get boosted. Apparently, CCP didn't want the Hulk to be able to do everything the best. The crystals thing (which only is non-trivial in some fantastically contrived scenarios) fits in perfectly with the Hulk being a fussy machine needing constant care and attention to work at capacity, while the Mack can float around and let you do whatever.

So, you got 1 extra viable mining barge. From the number of Cargo expanded Hulks on the KBs, I expect it will be popular. CCP was going for 3 viable mining barges, not 2, but you guys whined hard enough so they nerfed the Skiff into the ground.


tl;dr answer to my question, we gained nothing. ok.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#440 - 2012-08-05 07:27:15 UTC
For God's sake, does it really hurt anybody if the cargo bay can hold a decent crystal loadout? Roll

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016