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A possible solution to AFK cloaky alts

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The Apostle
Doomheim
#61 - 2011-10-12 02:29:10 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
The proposition of a solution implies a problem. There exists no problem with AFK cloakers. AFK cloakers by definition are AFK and cannot hurt you.

Should I respond to this? Should I? Yep. You're a poor troll.

Only time you know he is NOT AFK is when he drops a cyno on your ass. Until that moment, all you can assume is that he will. But you already know that.

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#62 - 2011-10-12 02:30:39 UTC
The Apostle wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:
The proposition of a solution implies a problem. There exists no problem with AFK cloakers. AFK cloakers by definition are AFK and cannot hurt you.

Should I respond to this? Should I? Yep. You're a poor troll.

Only time you know he is NOT AFK is when he drops a cyno on your ass. Until that moment, all you can assume is that he will. But you already know that.

Look up. See that thing flying above your head? That was the point of Lyris' post.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
The Apostle
Doomheim
#63 - 2011-10-12 02:33:05 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
The Apostle wrote:
And people wonder why so many are leaving 0.0. I know I did because there was and remains NO counter.

I still think you're Riverini but if you aren't then admitting that you got run out of nullsec by people who are afk is p funny.

lolz. Yep. I'm Riverini. There, ya found me out... That's why I hate Goons and Welpcats so much.

But yes. That, and the combination of JB nerf and Sanctum nerf.... And I'll bet my 10 ice roids to your 5 Brutix's that many did the same thing.

I can make more in highsec doing L4's or buzzing around WH's/lowsec looking for loose change.

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]
The Apostle
Doomheim
#64 - 2011-10-12 02:34:20 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
The Apostle wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:
The proposition of a solution implies a problem. There exists no problem with AFK cloakers. AFK cloakers by definition are AFK and cannot hurt you.

Should I respond to this? Should I? Yep. You're a poor troll.

Only time you know he is NOT AFK is when he drops a cyno on your ass. Until that moment, all you can assume is that he will. But you already know that.

Look up. See that thing flying above your head? That was the point of Lyris' post.

Sorry. I get so used to nobody being clever 'round here that I miss it when it happens.

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#65 - 2011-10-12 02:34:56 UTC
The Apostle wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:
The proposition of a solution implies a problem. There exists no problem with AFK cloakers. AFK cloakers by definition are AFK and cannot hurt you.

Should I respond to this? Should I? Yep. You're a poor troll.

Only time you know he is NOT AFK is when he drops a cyno on your ass. Until that moment, all you can assume is that he will. But you already know that.

So you admit the problem is not that he is AFK cloaking, but that he might at any time attack you. How exactly is this different from being in a wormhole, or being in high-security space right before a suicide gank is perpetrated against you? In fact, how is it any different from being in nullsec with a local that's all blue, right prior to being the victim of an awox attack? Your problem seems to be with the fact that you cannot, ever, guarantee safety in EVE. This is an intended feature.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#66 - 2011-10-12 02:37:37 UTC
The Apostle wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:
The Apostle wrote:
And people wonder why so many are leaving 0.0. I know I did because there was and remains NO counter.

I still think you're Riverini but if you aren't then admitting that you got run out of nullsec by people who are afk is p funny.

lolz. Yep. I'm Riverini. There, ya found me out... That's why I hate Goons and Welpcats so much.

But yes. That, and the combination of JB nerf and Sanctum nerf.... And I'll bet my 10 ice roids to your 5 Brutix's that many did the same thing.

I can make more in highsec doing L4's or buzzing around WH's/lowsec looking for loose change.

You can make more doing Incursions than you can doing L4s. You can make more owning a Tech moon than you can with Incursions. You can make more with marketeering than you can with a Tech moon. You can make more with a scam than you can with marketeering. You can make more with RMT than with most scams. You can make more with GM powers than you can with RMT. You can make more as a Dev than you can with GM powers. You can make more as the CEO of CCP hf than you can as a Dev. Where does the buck stop? You seem bitter overall that things aren't going exactly the way you'd like them.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#67 - 2011-10-12 02:37:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyris Nairn
The Apostle wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:
The Apostle wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:
The proposition of a solution implies a problem. There exists no problem with AFK cloakers. AFK cloakers by definition are AFK and cannot hurt you.

Should I respond to this? Should I? Yep. You're a poor troll.

Only time you know he is NOT AFK is when he drops a cyno on your ass. Until that moment, all you can assume is that he will. But you already know that.

Look up. See that thing flying above your head? That was the point of Lyris' post.

Sorry. I get so used to nobody being clever 'round here that I miss it when it happens.

I am continually amazed with how clever the EVE public is.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
The Apostle
Doomheim
#68 - 2011-10-12 02:47:37 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
The Apostle wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:
The proposition of a solution implies a problem. There exists no problem with AFK cloakers. AFK cloakers by definition are AFK and cannot hurt you.

Should I respond to this? Should I? Yep. You're a poor troll.

Only time you know he is NOT AFK is when he drops a cyno on your ass. Until that moment, all you can assume is that he will. But you already know that.

So you admit the problem is not that he is AFK cloaking, but that he might at any time attack you. How exactly is this different from being in a wormhole, or being in high-security space right before a suicide gank is perpetrated against you? In fact, how is it any different from being in nullsec with a local that's all blue, right prior to being the victim of an awox attack? Your problem seems to be with the fact that you cannot, ever, guarantee safety in EVE. This is an intended feature.

That's a fair point and you're right - and nor should we be safe (with some exceptions in my view but I won't go there in this thread).

But in all of the examples above, player needs to be active and there is as much risk to the agressor as there is to the agressee. Except maybe in the case of a WH but he can't cyno in a fleet against you either. They all have to be there - as a fleet to pull off the kill.

As for highseccers, if a DekCo cowboy (who should be -10 to all ice miners by now) was in system and you kept mining, more fool he. He may have a good tank and decide you are no threat. If he sees 10 reds come in - he leaves. No such option with cyno fleet.

An AFK cloaky has no risk, no counter and is as effective as sending in a 50 man red fleet.

And he's in bed, fast asleep doing it.

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]
Narffy
Dominus Imperium
#69 - 2011-10-12 02:54:54 UTC
Don't allow ships to fit both a cyno and a cloak at the same time. That'll stop the cap ship drops and the cloaky can continue to have fun being afk.
The Apostle
Doomheim
#70 - 2011-10-12 02:56:19 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
The Apostle wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:
The Apostle wrote:
And people wonder why so many are leaving 0.0. I know I did because there was and remains NO counter.

I still think you're Riverini but if you aren't then admitting that you got run out of nullsec by people who are afk is p funny.

lolz. Yep. I'm Riverini. There, ya found me out... That's why I hate Goons and Welpcats so much.

But yes. That, and the combination of JB nerf and Sanctum nerf.... And I'll bet my 10 ice roids to your 5 Brutix's that many did the same thing.

I can make more in highsec doing L4's or buzzing around WH's/lowsec looking for loose change.

You can make more doing Incursions than you can doing L4s. You can make more owning a Tech moon than you can with Incursions. You can make more with marketeering than you can with a Tech moon. You can make more with a scam than you can with marketeering. You can make more with RMT than with most scams. You can make more with GM powers than you can with RMT. You can make more as a Dev than you can with GM powers. You can make more as the CEO of CCP hf than you can as a Dev. Where does the buck stop? You seem bitter overall that things aren't going exactly the way you'd like them.

So NOT making changes to ANY element in Eve is the best approach - ALWAYS? Be a tough call arguing your way through that one spaceman.

And yes Sir, I'm bitter. Must be, you told me so. You guys need to stop e-peening on your effectiveness in forums. It's wasted.



[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]
Nel Gardier
Time Sync
#71 - 2011-10-12 02:58:43 UTC
These threads make me want to START AFK cloaking.

Please tell your Alliance to grow a collective wang and deal with it. A high sec miner isn't safe, why should you be given free ISK at zero risk.
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#72 - 2011-10-12 02:59:09 UTC
Hey this topic again neat.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#73 - 2011-10-12 03:01:59 UTC
The Apostle wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:
The Apostle wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:
The proposition of a solution implies a problem. There exists no problem with AFK cloakers. AFK cloakers by definition are AFK and cannot hurt you.

Should I respond to this? Should I? Yep. You're a poor troll.

Only time you know he is NOT AFK is when he drops a cyno on your ass. Until that moment, all you can assume is that he will. But you already know that.

So you admit the problem is not that he is AFK cloaking, but that he might at any time attack you. How exactly is this different from being in a wormhole, or being in high-security space right before a suicide gank is perpetrated against you? In fact, how is it any different from being in nullsec with a local that's all blue, right prior to being the victim of an awox attack? Your problem seems to be with the fact that you cannot, ever, guarantee safety in EVE. This is an intended feature.

That's a fair point and you're right - and nor should we be safe (with some exceptions in my view but I won't go there in this thread).

But in all of the examples above, player needs to be active and there is as much risk to the agressor as there is to the agressee. Except maybe in the case of a WH but he can't cyno in a fleet against you either. They all have to be there - as a fleet to pull off the kill.

As for highseccers, if a DekCo cowboy (who should be -10 to all ice miners by now) was in system and you kept mining, more fool he. He may have a good tank and decide you are no threat. If he sees 10 reds come in - he leaves. No such option with cyno fleet.

An AFK cloaky has no risk, no counter and is as effective as sending in a 50 man red fleet.

And he's in bed, fast asleep doing it.

You know that the AFK cloaker is there; this alerts you to the possibility of risk. You can ignore that risk, or you can go elsewhere. You are actually in a much more advantageous position compared to being a random guy in highsec whom might find himself suddenly under attack by a couple of 10 Hour Hero characters (10-hour old dudes in destroyers), or someone in nullsec suddenly under attack by an awox.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#74 - 2011-10-12 03:03:46 UTC
Narffy wrote:
Don't allow ships to fit both a cyno and a cloak at the same time. That'll stop the cap ship drops and the cloaky can continue to have fun being afk.

No it won't.

If I am going to go through the trouble to park a cloaking alt in your system, then it's not that much trouble to park a second, logged-off character in system that has a cyno fit. All this change would accomplish is to delay the hotdrop by a few seconds and to dissuade those whom are not very dedicated to what they are doing.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
The Apostle
Doomheim
#75 - 2011-10-12 03:11:19 UTC
Nel Gardier wrote:
These threads make me want to START AFK cloaking.

Please tell your Alliance to grow a collective wang and deal with it. A high sec miner isn't safe, why should you be given free ISK at zero risk.

Hey dude, the ICE topic is that way ArrowArrowArrow

Funny how all these kissGoon alts arrive at the same time as "the real thing"..... Surprise!! Shocked

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]
Seatox
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#76 - 2011-10-12 03:17:06 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Narffy wrote:
Don't allow ships to fit both a cyno and a cloak at the same time. That'll stop the cap ship drops and the cloaky can continue to have fun being afk.

No it won't.

If I am going to go through the trouble to park a cloaking alt in your system, then it's not that much trouble to park a second, logged-off character in system that has a cyno fit. All this change would accomplish is to delay the hotdrop by a few seconds and to dissuade those whom are not very dedicated to what they are doing.


And it takes a finite amount of time for a hot-drop to happen anyway. The titan pilot/supercap fleet/Blackops has to select the bridge to/jump to menu option, hit the relevant item, then if it's a bridging the ships in the fleet have to use the bridge - then they all have to load grid. Really, there's enough time for a properly paranoid victim of a drop to figure out what's happening. They might not be able to do anything about it if their ship is fat and slow, or they're a dumb bot (serves them right if they are), but a cyno != a doomsday.

At least, not since they took that stupid feature out years before I started playing EvE.
The Apostle
Doomheim
#77 - 2011-10-12 03:20:00 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
You know that the AFK cloaker is there; this alerts you to the possibility of risk. You can ignore that risk, or you can go elsewhere. You are actually in a much more advantageous position compared to being a random guy in highsec whom might find himself suddenly under attack by a couple of 10 Hour Hero characters (10-hour old dudes in destroyers), or someone in nullsec suddenly under attack by an awox.

Hey you know, only ever seen one awoxer ever (and he was well known) in 2 x very large 0.0 alliances. They must have been a problem out your way dude, you keep referring to them? Be funny if it was. Goon space. Funny space.

Problem for awoxers now is they can be kicked in space. So they can only do it once. Hey.... Wha? Wait!.... A change that removed an issue! I'll be damned!!

And a 10 hour destro alt cannot kill a half decent tank. Needs many more and local is a dead giveaway to a half decent player.

And yep. Go somewhere else.... lol. Gotta love it.... Hey... Wha?? Wait!!!.... I did.... So did MANY others.

htf did you get 1200+ likes.... Oh wait.... Duh on my part. Big smile

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#78 - 2011-10-12 03:22:23 UTC
The Apostle wrote:
Funny how all these kissGoon alts arrive at the same time as "the real thing"..... Surprise!! Shocked

We can't help it if we have admirers.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
The Apostle
Doomheim
#79 - 2011-10-12 03:22:31 UTC
Seatox wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Narffy wrote:
Don't allow ships to fit both a cyno and a cloak at the same time. That'll stop the cap ship drops and the cloaky can continue to have fun being afk.

No it won't.

If I am going to go through the trouble to park a cloaking alt in your system, then it's not that much trouble to park a second, logged-off character in system that has a cyno fit. All this change would accomplish is to delay the hotdrop by a few seconds and to dissuade those whom are not very dedicated to what they are doing.


And it takes a finite amount of time for a hot-drop to happen anyway. The titan pilot/supercap fleet/Blackops has to select the bridge to/jump to menu option, hit the relevant item, then if it's a bridging the ships in the fleet have to use the bridge - then they all have to load grid. Really, there's enough time for a properly paranoid victim of a drop to figure out what's happening. They might not be able to do anything about it if their ship is fat and slow, or they're a dumb bot (serves them right if they are), but a cyno != a doomsday.

At least, not since they took that stupid feature out years before I started playing EvE.

Best drops are paired. Both on target, one drops cyno, other points. Under 10 seconds to a good team. You virtually have to be mashing warp before the decloak even happens.

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]
The Apostle
Doomheim
#80 - 2011-10-12 03:25:20 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
The Apostle wrote:
Funny how all these kissGoon alts arrive at the same time as "the real thing"..... Surprise!! Shocked

We can't help it if we have admirers.

Yeah. My bad. I could log all my 21 chars and boost my count outta the ballpark.

'Cept I ain't that vain.

Actually, neither are you. Ya haven't even brushed your hair! Go get some lippy woman.... On second thoughts Ugh

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]