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Too much dps? Split fleet dps/split turrets?
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Andy Landen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-08-01 18:44:07 UTC
Is it possible to get too much dps on a single target without alpah'ing (popped in the first volley) the target? Target EHP and time to impact for missiles/drones are likely key considerations but I am having difficulty considering how to evaluate this problem for discovering the most efficient answers.

I know that with missiles, it is easy to get too much dps because missiles fired before the target is popped by hitting too late do no damage. The missile issue deals with travel time. Drones are similar to missiles in that they do have travel time, but I would like to consider. Answers which consider the use of turrets, drones, or missiles would be very helpful.

With turrets the answer may be as simple as splitting as soon as you have a little more than alpha, but the drones issue involves consideration of drone travel time vs drone dps time. Missiles probably just involves dividing into groups of alpha or switching after the volley expected to pop the target.

In summary, How do you figure out when it is most ideal to split your dps (whether by ships or by turrets)? Please verify and expanding on my thinking as appropriate. Please include how such a problem is best approached. Thank you.

"We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them." Albert Einstein 
Osiris04
Black Eagle5
#2 - 2012-08-01 19:04:13 UTC
Intuition.
Andy Landen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-08-01 23:16:57 UTC
Osiris04 wrote:
Intuition.

Now you are going to make me go and test it on the test server and create a spreadsheet considering the factors of travel/flight time, etc. Can anyone else be more helpful before I go and commit to such a project. I will of course share the results here, so unless someone else beats me to the project first, stay tuned for my test results. It will probably come out to number of drones, missiles, or ships as some function of dps, distance to target, and average velocity of the drones/missiles up to the alpha of the target. Turrets within optimal + falloff to target will simplify to be the number up to the alpha of the target. It's when drones or missiles are used with travel time in consideration that things get a little "less intuitive."

"We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them." Albert Einstein 
Rezig Huruta
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2012-08-01 23:24:48 UTC
Osiris04 wrote:
Intuition.


This is actually your best bet, even though you stated you were going to create a spreadsheet and test and all that jazz. Understanding the current flow of combat and applying the correct amount of firepower to the designated target while applying firepower to secondary and tertiary targets simultaneously will increase your applied combat power; thereby giving your fleet a force-multiplier.

A spreadsheet will not allow you to do that on the fly while commanding a fleet. Intuition and experience will.

TL;DR
Learn.
Lexmana
#5 - 2012-08-02 04:52:06 UTC
It is all about volley size and target HP. With large volleys and small targets you're gonna have a lot of overflow damage when target dies. With large targets that is less of an issue. Read more here.
Renier Gaden
Immortal Guides
#6 - 2012-08-02 14:29:26 UTC
In a mixed fleet, say Drakes and Shield Hurricanes, how about have the missiles and drones shoot at the Secondary target, while the guns fire on the Primary. If you have the numbers to pop the Primary in a couple of seconds, then the guns should be switching to the Secondary target about the time the missiles are arriving.

If it is taking longer to kill the Primary, then the missiles should target the Primary until it is in low armour or structure before switching to Secondary while the guns finish the Primary off.

That seems like a formula that can easily be applied with judicious use of Intuition during combat.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#7 - 2012-08-02 15:25:14 UTC
How is it possible to have too much DPS?

Bring all the DPS.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Vordak Kallager
Wilderness
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#8 - 2012-08-02 15:36:36 UTC
Lexmana wrote:
It is all about volley size and target HP. With large volleys and small targets you're gonna have a lot of overflow damage when target dies. With large targets that is less of an issue. Read more here.


Good post.

Sa souvraya niende misain ye.
Andy Landen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-08-04 17:40:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Andy Landen
Take a carrier with 12 drones. It can engage all 12 on target 1, wait time x for travel and time y for kill, and then engage target 2 and wait time x + y. Or it can engage 6 on target 1 and 6 on target 2, wait time x for travel and time 2y plus some for reps (extra time to damage what was repaired in the extra time required to kill the target). Time for combined is 2x + 2y while time for split is x + 2y + some for reps. It seems to take drones about 5-8 seconds to travel. Time lost by repairing seems to be about 5-8 seconds. Do these numbers sound right thus making it a wash?

"We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them." Albert Einstein 
Lexmana
#10 - 2012-08-04 21:59:43 UTC
Andy Landen wrote:
Take a carrier with 12 drones. It can engage all 12 on target 1, wait time x for travel and time y for kill, and then engage target 2 and wait time x + y. Or it can engage 6 on target 1 and 6 on target 2, wait time x for travel and time 2y plus some for reps (extra time to damage what was repaired in the extra time required to kill the target). Time for combined is 2x + 2y while time for split is x + 2y + some for reps. It seems to take drones about 5-8 seconds to travel. Time lost by repairing seems to be about 5-8 seconds. Do these numbers sound right thus making it a wash?

In a situation with only 2 small targets you might earn a second or two. But that is a special case. In general, your targets will just live longer while shooting at you and maybe even get extra reps shooting at you even more.