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Crime & Punishment

 
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Pirates take it up the A$$

Author
Copine Callmeknau
Callmeknau Holdings
#21 - 2012-08-04 09:15:51 UTC
Cyprus Black wrote:
They can't say how it destroys society nor provide any tangible facts, they just rage and continue to make wild claims.

1) I provided both those things
2) I could post examples of GoodFights had on stations/gates if needed
3) You seem to be the one deflecting the topic at hand to have a political rant

At the end of the day, small gang PvPers want GoodFights with other small gang PvPers. There's no joy in killing a solo missioner in a PvE tanked ship, we want to fight other guys armed to the teeth and ready to go, we want to die laughing surrounded by the wrecks of command ships and HAC's after being counterdropped 30km off gate, we want to agress on station with an active tanked vindi to bait the rest of their fleet to undock *and get out alive*.
We do not want to beg enemy fleets to warp to a planet, or live off the slim pickings of those foolish enough to rat in the belts, we do not want to endlessly scan for PvE ships that warp the second you move your probes on the off chance we might get a hollow tasting missioner kill.
I simply do not see where you expect small gang fights to actually happen in EVE with boosted gate guns.
For the record I wouldn't advise scalable damage either, frigs camping gates is a bit absurd, it makes it far too easy for people to totally lock down a gate. At the same time I don't think there's anything to gain by boosting DPS, players simply will adapt to the situation to gain the same end result as they do now.

Besides, it's actually quite difficult to tank a hostile ship and sentries at the same time, maybe if you were to do any change at all (that I wouldn't really recommend, just trying to be constructive and play devils advocate) it would be to first take drones off the sentries target list, and then have them hit all viable targets at the same time instead of cycling between them. This has your effect of making a camp difficult to maintain, as well as scalably difficult to maintain a larger camp (much more work for logistics, more ships = more logistics needed = camps capped to a size unless more logi pilots are found), on the other hand this doesn't increase the difficulty for any particular ship in the fleet, leaving small gang and solo stuff with sentries still open.
Of course this would also nerf the tactic of taking sentries with a tough ship then warping a soft gank ship in while you are safe for that 30 sec or so, but that's a luxury I'd probably be willing to let go.
Along these lines you could maybe strap a few citadel launchers if you really felt the need to push capitals away from gates (I've personally never been involved with or been the victim of a carrier/dread/super gatecamp)

I maintain that just because Neg Ten decide to troll Rancer in smartbombing BS (and kudos to them), doesn't mean that all of lowsec PvP should get kicked in the balls

There should be a rather awesome pic here

Ryuce
#22 - 2012-08-04 10:04:37 UTC
I do think Copine makes some valid points here.

Apart from a few fights on POS's coming out of RF, all the good fights (normally escalations) I've been in has been on gates or stations. If one looks at the low sec PVP vids most of the fighting takes place on gates/stations too.

The suggested power increase of sentries seems like an ill thought through idea, especially for small scale/solo guys who seem to get a harder time finding targets and lure ring them of to planets/moons.

I can see why it makes sense to have some kind of counter towards dropping caps left and right, but this seems like a bad plan.
Daedricbob
Sons Of 0din
Commonwealth Vanguard
#23 - 2012-08-04 11:44:49 UTC
24 (and counting) page thread in General Discussion about this.
eddie valvetino
Victory or Whatever
Nourv Gate Security Commission
#24 - 2012-08-04 12:21:34 UTC
Ryuce wrote:
I do think Copine makes some valid points here.

Apart from a few fights on POS's coming out of RF, all the good fights (normally escalations) I've been in has been on gates or stations. If one looks at the low sec PVP vids most of the fighting takes place on gates/stations too.

The suggested power increase of sentries seems like an ill thought through idea, especially for small scale/solo guys who seem to get a harder time finding targets and lure ring them of to planets/moons.

I can see why it makes sense to have some kind of counter towards dropping caps left and right, but this seems like a bad plan.


I have some questions relating to this.

1. what do the gate gun do when pirates fight each other.
2. Will the gun still cycle, if so does that mean a chap in a frig just joining a camp or passing though it, stands a chance of getting a "carrier killing" hit
3. Does this mean they will attack anyone with a neg sec? if they are GCC or not?
4. Has CCP really thought about this? Pirates don't camp with caps, they camp with logis.
5. How long do the gun take to reset?
6. Someone mentioned pounce camping, did CCP even consider that.

I have no issues with canging the way i play to work around this change.

Just seems to me, CCP have not really thought this though. Seems odd to change something that really isn't broken and when the "fix" has so many ways to work around
Roxwar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2012-08-04 12:38:16 UTC
Emadman wrote:
stuff


You brought this on yourselves.

If you pirate types actually did other things that didnt include reserving yourselves a parking space on gates waiting for easy targets coming fom highsec, this wouldnt be happening.

You assdicks killed lowsec all on your own with your cheap ass camps, so go cry somewhere else you bottom feeders.




Ryuce
#26 - 2012-08-04 12:51:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Ryuce
BORT member calling others bottom feeders.

Anyways, I always love the debate where 0.0 guys laugh at low sec duders as if 0.0 didn't contain gate camps at certain choke points. I'd imagine that if we counted the amount of camped low sec entry points and the amount camped of 0.0 entry points, the numbers might be pretty similar. Meanwhile the amount of camps at non-entry points is (from my experience) higher in 0.0.

This is of course only based on my experiences.
Butzewutze
Doomheim
#27 - 2012-08-04 13:11:17 UTC
Roxwar wrote:
Emadman wrote:
stuff


You brought this on yourselves.

If you pirate types actually did other things that didnt include reserving yourselves a parking space on gates waiting for easy targets coming fom highsec, this wouldnt be happening.

You assdicks killed lowsec all on your own with your cheap ass camps, so go cry somewhere else you bottom feeders.






Confirming that gatecamps killed whole area's in eve like 0.0 or wh's . Nobody is there because of all the camps!!1111^^^12drölf

Lowsec isn't dead because of gatecamps. Its dead because there is nothing to get there.
Sorceror Majiir
Doomheim
#28 - 2012-08-04 13:15:25 UTC
Ristlin Wakefield wrote:
Emadman wrote:
Reading the CSM notes, it seems that once again pirates take one from ccp up the jacksy

"CCP Greyscale moves on to explain his work on sentry guns. Sentry guns will now shoot anyone with a criminal flag, suspect or otherwise. Sentry guns will also start with smaller amounts of damage, and ramp up with time. Ideal tuning will be to where triage carriers will die at around 4 1/2 minutes. This way, if you want to use triage carriers in lowsec on gates you can, but you must commit to the cycle for a length of time before starting your reps, if you want to deactivate triage before the sentry guns kill you and jump out. CCP Greyscale also points out that another goal is to make it so that the first couple of hits won't kill an interceptor immediately, enabling a quick tackle, and then a warp out."

So there goes low sec gate camping... so if your a pirate i would suggest start looking for a new career mode..Whilst every pirate accepts that gate guns are way of life, making so you can't tank them means making low-sec a future carebear haven.!.


We need more clarification in that does the "ramp up damage" reset after the guns recycle or does it just stay at the level that you last got.. If it resets then gate camps wont be majorly effected just solo hunters.

Given it would take 4.5mins to pop a triage carier then what sort of DPS will be put out...

Just to say be prepared to see lots of big ships killed by lil frigates/interceptors on gates lol :)


Future carebear haven? You guys have such limited imagination lol.

Tell you what, I'll keep listening and you keep whining and crying. I <3 pirate tears Twisted



lol no kidding, pirate tears rock don't they. But I really don't get the upset, so people can pass through gates again, why is that the end of the world? More peeps in LS means more opportunity to jump them.
Sorceror Majiir
Doomheim
#29 - 2012-08-04 13:27:12 UTC
Butzewutze wrote:
Roxwar wrote:
Emadman wrote:
stuff


You brought this on yourselves.

If you pirate types actually did other things that didnt include reserving yourselves a parking space on gates waiting for easy targets coming fom highsec, this wouldnt be happening.

You assdicks killed lowsec all on your own with your cheap ass camps, so go cry somewhere else you bottom feeders.






Confirming that gatecamps killed whole area's in eve like 0.0 or wh's . Nobody is there because of all the camps!!1111^^^12drölf

Lowsec isn't dead because of gatecamps. Its dead because there is nothing to get there.



nothing to get in low sec?? huh, what is PI , mining, missions, POS's.... Just think of all those new POS's you'll be able to attack now that people can get to them.
Butzewutze
Doomheim
#30 - 2012-08-04 13:28:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Butzewutze
Sorceror Majiir wrote:
Ristlin Wakefield wrote:
Emadman wrote:
Reading the CSM notes, it seems that once again pirates take one from ccp up the jacksy

"CCP Greyscale moves on to explain his work on sentry guns. Sentry guns will now shoot anyone with a criminal flag, suspect or otherwise. Sentry guns will also start with smaller amounts of damage, and ramp up with time. Ideal tuning will be to where triage carriers will die at around 4 1/2 minutes. This way, if you want to use triage carriers in lowsec on gates you can, but you must commit to the cycle for a length of time before starting your reps, if you want to deactivate triage before the sentry guns kill you and jump out. CCP Greyscale also points out that another goal is to make it so that the first couple of hits won't kill an interceptor immediately, enabling a quick tackle, and then a warp out."

So there goes low sec gate camping... so if your a pirate i would suggest start looking for a new career mode..Whilst every pirate accepts that gate guns are way of life, making so you can't tank them means making low-sec a future carebear haven.!.


We need more clarification in that does the "ramp up damage" reset after the guns recycle or does it just stay at the level that you last got.. If it resets then gate camps wont be majorly effected just solo hunters.

Given it would take 4.5mins to pop a triage carier then what sort of DPS will be put out...

Just to say be prepared to see lots of big ships killed by lil frigates/interceptors on gates lol :)


Future carebear haven? You guys have such limited imagination lol.

Tell you what, I'll keep listening and you keep whining and crying. I <3 pirate tears Twisted



lol no kidding, pirate tears rock don't they. But I really don't get the upset, so people can pass through gates again, why is that the end of the world? More peeps in LS means more opportunity to jump them.


Do you really think that if u tighten the window of opportunity there will be "no fights anymore"? No, they will adapt. That means, they have to bring even more dps, more numbers, moar alpha to kill u in that shorter timeframe -> Tornado's.
Butzewutze
Doomheim
#31 - 2012-08-04 13:34:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Butzewutze
Sorceror Majiir wrote:
Butzewutze wrote:
Roxwar wrote:
Emadman wrote:
stuff


You brought this on yourselves.

If you pirate types actually did other things that didnt include reserving yourselves a parking space on gates waiting for easy targets coming fom highsec, this wouldnt be happening.

You assdicks killed lowsec all on your own with your cheap ass camps, so go cry somewhere else you bottom feeders.






Confirming that gatecamps killed whole area's in eve like 0.0 or wh's . Nobody is there because of all the camps!!1111^^^12drölf

Lowsec isn't dead because of gatecamps. Its dead because there is nothing to get there.



nothing to get in low sec?? huh, what is PI , mining, missions, POS's.... Just think of all those new POS's you'll be able to attack now that people can get to them.


Have you ever been in lowsec? What does 10% more reward mean if you can get killed everywhere? Nothing, as you can see almost nobody is doing missions there. And a fix to gateguns will not change that.

Lets say you get killed every 5 missions. That means you have to get your shipcost + more reward as in highsec in that timeframe out of it. Otherwise there wont be anyone there... as it is right now.
Medarr
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2012-08-04 13:48:31 UTC
Roxwar wrote:
Emadman wrote:
stuff


You brought this on yourselves.

If you pirate types actually did other things that didnt include reserving yourselves a parking space on gates waiting for easy targets coming fom highsec, this wouldnt be happening.

You assdicks killed lowsec all on your own with your cheap ass camps, so go cry somewhere else you bottom feeders.






You need to work on your poasting skills testie.. This is subpar for you lot.. I'm used to quality trolls not this garbage
eddie valvetino
Victory or Whatever
Nourv Gate Security Commission
#33 - 2012-08-04 14:16:30 UTC
Roxwar wrote:
Emadman wrote:
stuff


You brought this on yourselves.

If you pirate types actually did other things that didnt include reserving yourselves a parking space on gates waiting for easy targets coming fom highsec, this wouldnt be happening.

You assdicks killed lowsec all on your own with your cheap ass camps, so go cry somewhere else you bottom feeders.






wow... u mad bro?

Oh yeah... he mad..

See what you guys don't get, is most pirates are only so cos they have done most other stuff in eve...

CCP will make changes and we will adapt, with little moaning.

My god, had Hulks been changed even a little, this thread would be 150 pages by now
Copine Callmeknau
Callmeknau Holdings
#34 - 2012-08-04 15:49:28 UTC
Sorceror Majiir wrote:
Ristlin Wakefield wrote:
Emadman wrote:
Reading the CSM notes, it seems that once again pirates take one from ccp up the jacksy

"CCP Greyscale moves on to explain his work on sentry guns. Sentry guns will now shoot anyone with a criminal flag, suspect or otherwise. Sentry guns will also start with smaller amounts of damage, and ramp up with time. Ideal tuning will be to where triage carriers will die at around 4 1/2 minutes. This way, if you want to use triage carriers in lowsec on gates you can, but you must commit to the cycle for a length of time before starting your reps, if you want to deactivate triage before the sentry guns kill you and jump out. CCP Greyscale also points out that another goal is to make it so that the first couple of hits won't kill an interceptor immediately, enabling a quick tackle, and then a warp out."

So there goes low sec gate camping... so if your a pirate i would suggest start looking for a new career mode..Whilst every pirate accepts that gate guns are way of life, making so you can't tank them means making low-sec a future carebear haven.!.


We need more clarification in that does the "ramp up damage" reset after the guns recycle or does it just stay at the level that you last got.. If it resets then gate camps wont be majorly effected just solo hunters.

Given it would take 4.5mins to pop a triage carier then what sort of DPS will be put out...

Just to say be prepared to see lots of big ships killed by lil frigates/interceptors on gates lol :)


Future carebear haven? You guys have such limited imagination lol.

Tell you what, I'll keep listening and you keep whining and crying. I <3 pirate tears Twisted



lol no kidding, pirate tears rock don't they. But I really don't get the upset, so people can pass through gates again, why is that the end of the world? More peeps in LS means more opportunity to jump them.

You don't understand
We don't *want* to be jumping some poor missioner in a totally onesided fight
We want to be roaming around fighting other PvP gangs of similar composition.
Now if these changes go through there won't be any more roaming around. There will just be nado pounce camps with inties to lock you down, there will be PvP gangs clustered around the titan just waiting for the covops to finish his probe and light the cyno on an alt.

That sounds boring as ****, and for what? For highsec carebears to realise they hate it just as much getting killed after 10 minutes in lowsec as they do after 30 seconds. For a rush of explorers to come in and squabble over sites for a day or two, only to find every site after that gobbled up by a competitor or not worth the time to run...

This is an utterly pointless endeavour and the negatives not only outweigh the positives, they simply dwarf them.

There should be a rather awesome pic here

Sorceror Majiir
Doomheim
#35 - 2012-08-04 16:31:26 UTC
Copine Callmeknau wrote:
Sorceror Majiir wrote:
Ristlin Wakefield wrote:
Emadman wrote:
Reading the CSM notes, it seems that once again pirates take one from ccp up the jacksy

"CCP Greyscale moves on to explain his work on sentry guns. Sentry guns will now shoot anyone with a criminal flag, suspect or otherwise. Sentry guns will also start with smaller amounts of damage, and ramp up with time. Ideal tuning will be to where triage carriers will die at around 4 1/2 minutes. This way, if you want to use triage carriers in lowsec on gates you can, but you must commit to the cycle for a length of time before starting your reps, if you want to deactivate triage before the sentry guns kill you and jump out. CCP Greyscale also points out that another goal is to make it so that the first couple of hits won't kill an interceptor immediately, enabling a quick tackle, and then a warp out."

So there goes low sec gate camping... so if your a pirate i would suggest start looking for a new career mode..Whilst every pirate accepts that gate guns are way of life, making so you can't tank them means making low-sec a future carebear haven.!.


We need more clarification in that does the "ramp up damage" reset after the guns recycle or does it just stay at the level that you last got.. If it resets then gate camps wont be majorly effected just solo hunters.

Given it would take 4.5mins to pop a triage carier then what sort of DPS will be put out...

Just to say be prepared to see lots of big ships killed by lil frigates/interceptors on gates lol :)


Future carebear haven? You guys have such limited imagination lol.

Tell you what, I'll keep listening and you keep whining and crying. I <3 pirate tears Twisted



lol no kidding, pirate tears rock don't they. But I really don't get the upset, so people can pass through gates again, why is that the end of the world? More peeps in LS means more opportunity to jump them.

You don't understand
We don't *want* to be jumping some poor missioner in a totally onesided fight
We want to be roaming around fighting other PvP gangs of similar composition.
Now if these changes go through there won't be any more roaming around. There will just be nado pounce camps with inties to lock you down, there will be PvP gangs clustered around the titan just waiting for the covops to finish his probe and light the cyno on an alt.

That sounds boring as ****, and for what? For highsec carebears to realise they hate it just as much getting killed after 10 minutes in lowsec as they do after 30 seconds. For a rush of explorers to come in and squabble over sites for a day or two, only to find every site after that gobbled up by a competitor or not worth the time to run...

This is an utterly pointless endeavour and the negatives not only outweigh the positives, they simply dwarf them.


So the point your making is that you only get those fights you want at the gates / stations because those are movement choke points. I get that, not all pvpers hang out at gates to fight other pvp gangs though. If you want that level of pvp doesn't a wardec create that for you? Heck wardec several corps. Maybe a trade off might be to lower the cost of wardecs. Just select a pvp gang you want to attack and go get em.

So they need something to protect those players who want to mission in low sec. I suspect there may be some scan distortion equipment on deadspace gates being looked at just for that purpose. I don't see any of these developments as bad for the game. In fact, I think they are critical to bring and RETAIN new players.


Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#36 - 2012-08-04 16:45:50 UTC
Sorceror Majiir wrote:
Copine Callmeknau wrote:
Sorceror Majiir wrote:
Ristlin Wakefield wrote:
Emadman wrote:
Reading the CSM notes, it seems that once again pirates take one from ccp up the jacksy

"CCP Greyscale moves on to explain his work on sentry guns. Sentry guns will now shoot anyone with a criminal flag, suspect or otherwise. Sentry guns will also start with smaller amounts of damage, and ramp up with time. Ideal tuning will be to where triage carriers will die at around 4 1/2 minutes. This way, if you want to use triage carriers in lowsec on gates you can, but you must commit to the cycle for a length of time before starting your reps, if you want to deactivate triage before the sentry guns kill you and jump out. CCP Greyscale also points out that another goal is to make it so that the first couple of hits won't kill an interceptor immediately, enabling a quick tackle, and then a warp out."

So there goes low sec gate camping... so if your a pirate i would suggest start looking for a new career mode..Whilst every pirate accepts that gate guns are way of life, making so you can't tank them means making low-sec a future carebear haven.!.


We need more clarification in that does the "ramp up damage" reset after the guns recycle or does it just stay at the level that you last got.. If it resets then gate camps wont be majorly effected just solo hunters.

Given it would take 4.5mins to pop a triage carier then what sort of DPS will be put out...

Just to say be prepared to see lots of big ships killed by lil frigates/interceptors on gates lol :)


Future carebear haven? You guys have such limited imagination lol.

Tell you what, I'll keep listening and you keep whining and crying. I <3 pirate tears Twisted



lol no kidding, pirate tears rock don't they. But I really don't get the upset, so people can pass through gates again, why is that the end of the world? More peeps in LS means more opportunity to jump them.

You don't understand
We don't *want* to be jumping some poor missioner in a totally onesided fight
We want to be roaming around fighting other PvP gangs of similar composition.
Now if these changes go through there won't be any more roaming around. There will just be nado pounce camps with inties to lock you down, there will be PvP gangs clustered around the titan just waiting for the covops to finish his probe and light the cyno on an alt.

That sounds boring as ****, and for what? For highsec carebears to realise they hate it just as much getting killed after 10 minutes in lowsec as they do after 30 seconds. For a rush of explorers to come in and squabble over sites for a day or two, only to find every site after that gobbled up by a competitor or not worth the time to run...

This is an utterly pointless endeavour and the negatives not only outweigh the positives, they simply dwarf them.


So the point your making is that you only get those fights you want at the gates / stations because those are movement choke points. I get that, not all pvpers hang out at gates to fight other pvp gangs though. If you want that level of pvp doesn't a wardec create that for you? Heck wardec several corps. Maybe a trade off might be to lower the cost of wardecs. Just select a pvp gang you want to attack and go get em.

So they need something to protect those players who want to mission in low sec. I suspect there may be some scan distortion equipment on deadspace gates being looked at just for that purpose. I don't see any of these developments as bad for the game. In fact, I think they are critical to bring and RETAIN new players.


Once again, you posts are ill-thought out ill-informed and just plain stupid. This does nothing to protect missioners/pvers in lowsec. Even if every pirate in the game forgot how to do a pounce camp, they would then just switch to hounding missioners.
Sorceror Majiir
Doomheim
#37 - 2012-08-04 17:26:02 UTC
Astroniomix wrote:

Once again, you posts are ill-thought out ill-informed and just plain stupid. This does nothing to protect missioners/pvers in lowsec. Even if every pirate in the game forgot how to do a pounce camp, they would then just switch to hounding missioners.



ASTRO BUDDY, where'd you come from..left field? lol. Well thanks for reducing the thread to name calling. lol You always come though in a pinch. I guess you missed the part about the scan distorters.. but what the heck.. welcome.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2012-08-04 18:23:51 UTC
bullcrap.

Really easy to live with these changes and still get plenty of kills.

Those who whine are too stupid to adapt and won't be missed.
Cpt Branko
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2012-08-04 22:14:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Cpt Branko
Meh. The silliest part is they're actually allowing interceptors to tackle but on the other hand you can't have any semi-serious fight under sentries. Ah, well, not -10 anymore, but it's still stupid.

Cyprus Black wrote:
The risk vs reward ratio is heavily tipped towards risk with feeble rewards.


Wh... what. You can make billions in a few days in a gunless T1 frig alt. I can't think of anything with better reward while risking a... oh, a gunless T1 frig. Why do you think everyone is doing it? A friend of mine moved from farming in NPC 0.0 (which is actually quite solid ISK, people buy those faction frigates at silly prices for some reason) to lowsec. Made something silly like 150 navy omens in a week, and it's not cashout time yet.

Plus you get to kill people with your main while doing it. Feeble rewards... you are crazy.
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#40 - 2012-08-04 23:01:23 UTC
Daemon Ceed wrote:
Bunnie Hop wrote:

Gate camping is a cowardly way to pvp and has ruined low sec.


People who obviously know nothing about lowsec should keep their comments to themselves. I fly through it all the time, and it's typically a handful of entrance systems that are ever camped at all.

It's not gatecamping that has killed lowsec. Most systems aren't camped at all. It's the complete neglect by CCP to give nearly any incentive to go to lowsec except for sec status ruining pvp or the occasionally decent DED site.



Well said Demon. I went from High, to 0.0 and back to High a few times, bypassing most of low sec for those reasons. Crap for mining, sec status hits when I fool around pvping, and I will admit, gate camps are a royal pita.
I do hope they give more reasons for pple to hit low sec, the newer players in particular. Would love to see a slope going from high - low - 0.0.

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly

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