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EVE Online: Inferno 1.2 to be deployed on Wednesday, August 8

First post
Author
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2012-08-03 22:45:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Shereza
At this point the only thing that really concerns me about the changes is how this is going to affect the usage of low slots on mining barges and exhumers. Unless expanded cargohold modules are updated to have even just a minimal impact (say 5%) on ore holds they are going to be rendered virtually if not absolutely useless on any and all non-combat mining ships. Likewise the overall reduction in hull HP values, despite the overal increase in armor and shield HP values, makes me wonder just how useful damage controls will be for increasing EHP, as a percentage and not an absolute value, when compared to current numbers.

Frankly, I don't even understand why these ships have such low hull HP values given that ORE ships all currently favor Hull as the HP sink of choice. Does this herald a change to all ORE ships that will result in, for example, the orca's hull HP being reduced while it sees a significant increase in armor and shield HP values or is this just a somewhat arbitrary change in light of "standard" ORE ship design?

Omnathious Deninard wrote:
@DEVs in what case do you thiink the skiff would be usable. It is pointless in high sec, low/null sec it will just get tackled then blown up.


Well, presuming that the mining turret statements are typos the skiff and procurer will sit there, mining around as much as a covetor with mining barge 2 (which yes, I know, is technically impossible) would right now and being very, very hard to suicide gank while packing more cargo into it than it currently can now.

CCP Masterplan wrote:
If the appropriate bay is full, the module/drone will deactivate as normal, and excess ore is lost.


Why isn't the overload automatically transferred? Given how much the standard cargo bays were nerfed this would have been a nice bone to toss ore miners.

Also have ice harvesters been fixed so that they no longer shut down prematurely compared to mining lasers and strip miners? It gets pretty annoying fairly fast to have, for example, an 8km3 cargo mackinaw and have your harvesters shut down after just two cycles if you don't dump your cargo between cycles while having 9km3 cargo allows the harvesters to function just fine and continue to initate potential "partial cargo" pulls.

CCP Masterplan wrote:
You seem to be trying to tank the wrong barge...


No, he isn't. He's just min-max'ing. This is EVE after all. If you aren't min-max'ing you're playing Hello Kitty Online.

_____

Insofar as the proposed/intended changes to the standings transactions window go, I have to agree that removing information from the players' hands, even if it's just relating to NPC corporations, is a bad move until or unless the tooltips for the transactions window itself can pick up the slack by displaying more, and more accurate, infomration regarding what caused the transaction in question.

Edit: On a secondary note these changes to the inventory UI will be somewhat underwhelming until I can drag/drop fitted modules onto the ship hangar to have them transferred to my item hangar again, double-clicking on ships in the ship hangar opens them up instead of making them my active ship again, and I can stop worrying about the ship hangar section in the list view pane automatically expanding any time it feels like it regardless of whether or not I want it expanded. Ever.
CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#62 - 2012-08-03 22:55:32 UTC
Synthetic Cultist wrote:
Quote:
User Interface

In the Standing Transactions window, "Show Details" is no longer available as the functionality was removed long ago.


This is true for player set standings to player characters or corporations. Show Details just brings up a blank box.

However, for npc entities, the standings transactions still show details of each transaction.

For example, in my character sheet, I have standings transactions with the Angel Cartel
ID 8940544917 show details brings up "This penalty was incurred for destroying Angel Cartel's Flimsy Pirate Base in Hulm"

There's other ones like "This penalty was incurred for attacking Angel Cartel's Gistii Hijacker in Malukker"

Is all that also being removed ? it's useful to see why something has happened, like losing agent access.


uh-oh

I'll check when I get in the office on Tuesday
thanks for the heads up Big smile

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis

CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#63 - 2012-08-03 23:04:12 UTC
Herucle Custeau wrote:
I agree with the above poster.
Why remove "Details" in the Standing Transactions window for npcs. It works on Tranquility now, and now all the standings transactions are going to be a big mystery, because I can't see the reason now.
I can't see any transaction details on Sisi now, and I am really going to miss them.

People are going to end up with -10 in faction standing, and they are not going to see which npcs or structures they shot to get there. It was really useful to see those things when i was a newbie.

Please bring back the Transactions Details window for Standing Transactions for npcs, npc corporations, and factions.


I messed up, I didn't realize they were used for NPC standings. I'll fix it as soon as I can on Tuesday (Monday is holiday). If you'd file a bug report it would speed up the process (F12 - bug report). Thanks!

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis

Jagoff Haverford
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#64 - 2012-08-03 23:09:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Jagoff Haverford
On Sisi, mining crystals apparently got shrunk to 25 m3 apiece. The patch notes make no mention of how big mining crystals will be when the patch drops. This is really crucial information. With only 350 m3 in the Hulk to hold crystals, and with crystals at 25 m3 each, it will only be able to carry enough "ammo" for 4 different ore types (plus a 5th set of crystals in the strip miners). While this is probably enough capacity for high sec mining, it seems very limiting for mining the grav sites in SOV and wormhole space, where there can be as many as 12 (or even more) ore types in a single belt.

I don't really care how big the cargo hold is in the Hulk, but it should be able to carry enough crystals to support a much larger number of ore types. The obvious way to make this happen is to make the mining crystals smaller.
Kata Amentis
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#65 - 2012-08-04 00:03:16 UTC
Jagoff Haverford wrote:
On Sisi, mining crystals apparently got shrunk to 25 m3 apiece. The patch notes make no mention of how big mining crystals will be when the patch drops. This is really crucial information. With only 350 m3 in the Hulk to hold crystals, and with crystals at 25 m3 each, it will only be able to carry enough "ammo" for 4 different ore types (plus a 5th set of crystals in the strip miners). While this is probably enough capacity for high sec mining, it seems very limiting for mining the grav sites in SOV and wormhole space, where there can be as many as 12 (or even more) ore types in a single belt.

I don't really care how big the cargo hold is in the Hulk, but it should be able to carry enough crystals to support a much larger number of ore types. The obvious way to make this happen is to make the mining crystals smaller.



This is covered in the mining barge dev blog bit at the bottom... would linking that dev blog in the patch notes be enough (same as the devblog about the attack frigs)?

Curiosity killed the Kata... ... but being immortal he wasn't too worried about keeping a count.

OutCast EG
Very Industrial Corp.
#66 - 2012-08-04 01:26:36 UTC
Quote:
Mission Overlay
See the bookmarks for your current mission in an easy to access panel.
Interact with mission sites, set destination, warp to etc.

Great, but again: you're placing stuff in the region where most players keep their localchat. Which is disappointing.
Jay Hazelwood
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#67 - 2012-08-04 02:50:24 UTC
Skills

Ethnic Relations skill changed into Diplomatic Relations and theold effect is replaced by a new one that decreases cost to hire allies in war.

Are we getting skill points reimbursement? This skill will become pointless to me after the change!

Thanks

Jay
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2012-08-04 04:14:40 UTC
Okay, just bothered to do some quick math on the subject and it seems like even though the covetor and hulk are getting a 25% and 19.55% increase to base EHP the loss of hull HP is actually reducing the effectiveness of damage controls on the ships. Right now the covetor and hulk are getting roughly 7,879 and 11,914 EHP respectively with a DC2 and base HP value while post-change they'll be getting 8695 and 12,881 respectively. This amounts to a drop in EHP increase as a percentage from a DC2 of 10.3% for the covetor and 10.45% for hulk.

I don't mind that the hulk and covetor are being shifted to yield-oriented tissue paper ships (compared to the other two hulls in each class), but it bothers me that the new HP values favor shield over hull when, as I said before, ORE ships traditionally favor larger hull HP values. I have to ask why this design change was implemented as well given that it functions as an effective nerf to damage controls on mining ships and how that can contradict with, IIRC, previous statements by some staff members to the effect of not exactly liking how easy it is to take out mining ships with smaller combat ships like destroyers.

Bear in mind that I'm not concerned over this because of any misbelief that the hulk/covetor should be any great shakes at tanking or EHP, nor am I ignoring that regardless of this effective nerf to DCs that they are still getting a total EHP boost, but I'd just like to understand why this shift in HP focus occurred since it seems to fly in the face of two precedents.
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
#69 - 2012-08-04 04:29:01 UTC
Ah, so both plate HP increase and SD removal are on the way despite the player feedback and without even bothering to elaborate?

Nice to see good old CCP back!

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.

Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
#70 - 2012-08-04 04:50:44 UTC
OMG so much awesome is in these patch notes. I'll have to wear a condom on first launch to avoid a mess I think.
ThaMa Gebir
Penumbra Institute
#71 - 2012-08-04 09:15:51 UTC  |  Edited by: ThaMa Gebir
Stupid Devs are stupid.

Come on CCP you can do better than that...

"The 'Rampart' Kinetic Plating I has been renamed to Experimental Explosive Plating I, and now gives an explosive bonus; previously the 'Rampart' plating had identical stats to the Experimental Kinetic Plating I, and there was no corresponding Explosive plating with the same bonus."

So make a corresponding one for the one that was missing, as opposed to renaming one that exists to reduce the possible trading price etc...


"T2 armor plates now have better HP that the Meta 4 plates. Previously there was no advantage in using the T2 plates."

What about the price? Skills? Ease of getting hold of them?

Well hell, by all means change them, it will make my Bhaalgorn even more of a brick wall...


"Ethnic Relations skill changed into Diplomatic Relations and theold effect is replaced by a new one that decreases cost to hire allies in war."

OOOH. Skill point reimbursement.. Sweet thanks CCP.



The mining barges will have the cargo holds changed... Will the rigs get dropped into my hangar that were on my hulk that are going to be rendered COMPLETELY useless now? Or will the rigs work for the ORE holds?

Cause if they are not going to work on the ore holds then I cannot see how less than 400m³ is going to be heavily improved by 2 cargo hold rigs...



Apart from those glaring mistakes I find it looks ok.

Nice.



One thing to note though. What kind of illeterate **** wrote them? I have seen in almost every category a problem with either spelling or missing words...

Now if he is dyslexic then fine I apologise, however I would then have to ask what the hell is he doing writing patch notes?
malaire
#72 - 2012-08-04 09:30:29 UTC
Avi Pardiwalla wrote:
Just a quick question for the devs..

Will the caldari ships (frigates mostly) be getting bonuses to rockets and not just missiles?

thanks!

Rockets are small missiles, so missile bonuses will affect them also.

New to EVE? Don't forget to read: The Manual * The Wiki * The Career Options * and everything else

ThaMa Gebir
Penumbra Institute
#73 - 2012-08-04 09:40:51 UTC
malaire wrote:
Avi Pardiwalla wrote:
Just a quick question for the devs..

Will the caldari ships (frigates mostly) be getting bonuses to rockets and not just missiles?

thanks!

Rockets are small missiles, so missile bonuses will affect them also.



In the respect that rockets are actually like miniature torpedoes... (Unguided missiles) You are bang on there...
Dasola
New Edens Freeports
#74 - 2012-08-04 09:41:09 UTC
Soo many changes...

How ever im suprised that ui developer dosent know how UI works currently. Players had to point out theres still use for standings transaction window. P

As highsec/0.0 dweller i welcome most of these changes, im sure there will be small adjustments later for these initial changes...

Interesting to see how mining ship changes are going to play out in long run.

We are Minmatar, Our ship are made of scraps, but look what our scraps can do...

Scaugh
Bank Robbers
#75 - 2012-08-04 10:01:12 UTC
Emma Knightly wrote:
Scaugh wrote:


Added a Settings tab into all Inventory windows that allows players to make all secondary Inventory windows open up in a new window as the default behavior, making it unnecessary to hold the Shift key.

I've been asking on the forums all week what is the window CCP classes as the primary UI window and from where is it opened.



There is now a small icon at the top of a window that open a tick box, if you tick this box then any item you open by right click, select or double click, like your cargo hold, ore bay, cargo containers, will open in individule secondary windows.

Clicking the 'Inventory' icon in the Neocom will open a normal window with a Tree, the secondary windows open with no tree, and limited extra 'fluff'.

On SiSi I could double click up to 6 (the most I had in one place) cargo containers and they would all open in their own window, and remember where they opened next time.

Best fix yet.



This is something that is beyond Awesome If it works as you say that is Lol
Kallie Rae
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#76 - 2012-08-04 11:09:36 UTC
The module mouseover enhancement is just pure awesome, thanks for that :D
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#77 - 2012-08-04 21:43:48 UTC
\o/

★★★ Secure 3rd party service ★★★

Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'

Twitter @ChribbaVeldspar

Ghost Hunter
True Slave Foundations
#78 - 2012-08-05 01:58:42 UTC
Wow a lot of these features are coming out faster than I expected :)
A pleasant surprise.

Just throwing this out here to draw attention to it, but I'm hoping the missile range bug can be fixed in the next few patches. As a Torpedo user, having 30%~ of my total range completely cut off because of an indecisive range formula really hurts. The bug is not a function of people out running the missiles, the missiles themselves completely stop existing in the last 30%~ of the total range. In some cases the missiles go 10-20% /over/ their theoretical maximum distance...

It's really got me by the balls because I don't want to use Torpedoes in particular because of it, 20km~ is huge in PvP with Javelin Torpedoes.

True Slave Foundations Overseer

ϕ

Rezecor
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#79 - 2012-08-05 05:54:27 UTC
Jagoff Haverford wrote:
On Sisi, mining crystals apparently got shrunk to 25 m3 apiece. The patch notes make no mention of how big mining crystals will be when the patch drops. This is really crucial information. With only 350 m3 in the Hulk to hold crystals, and with crystals at 25 m3 each, it will only be able to carry enough "ammo" for 4 different ore types (plus a 5th set of crystals in the strip miners). While this is probably enough capacity for high sec mining, it seems very limiting for mining the grav sites in SOV and wormhole space, where there can be as many as 12 (or even more) ore types in a single belt.

I don't really care how big the cargo hold is in the Hulk, but it should be able to carry enough crystals to support a much larger number of ore types. The obvious way to make this happen is to make the mining crystals smaller.


I agree completely. (And yes, I've read the dev blog on the subject). Though if some of your crystals are used, it's really going to be more like only 3 ore types total if you want to be mining a specific ore for any length of time. For mining in grav sites this is a serious handicap.
Stragak
#80 - 2012-08-05 06:20:08 UTC
\0/ to quote the Kool-Aid man himself 'OH YA'... loving the new barges as well makes them useful instead of busting out a bc or bs to mine till one 'got' into a hulk

"Oh look, the cat is sitting in the litter box and pooping over the side again" every time we go through these "rough patches". In good humor, and slight annoyance, Boiglio   https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238130&p=82