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Cloak's and afk cloakers
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Malsia Vaille
Not So Smart
#41 - 2012-08-04 04:04:21 UTC
Shizuken wrote:
Apo Lyptica wrote:
I think we pretty much agree that afk cloakers are a problem. So how about this-

Compounding capacitor use per cycle.

Example- 100, 150, 200, 250, 300, 350, 400, 450 cap use

Now you ask what about ships who are supposed to use cloaks? Add in a bonus, either flat or per t2 skill. But at the same time, balance it out so a ship that is SUPPOSED to cloak can do so for about an 1.5 hours with out specialized fitting.

Sound good?


How about something easier and less detrimental to regular cloak users? Add a tachyon probe for probe launchers that lets you scan down cloaked ships. Long scan time and low signature strength so people on the move are fine, but those at rest for long periods are sitting ducks...

/solveproblem
/stopwhine



This^^
Lilianna Star
Vagrant Empress
#42 - 2012-08-04 04:05:13 UTC
Wait, what's the problem? How much damage can an AFK cloaked ship cause? As far as I know they can't use modules so WTF.
Electra002
Warp to Zero Holding
#43 - 2012-08-04 04:06:23 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Apo Lyptica wrote:
I think we pretty much agree that afk cloakers are a problem.
No.
Electra002 wrote:
AFK cloaking IS a problem, and all the people who are here disagreeing are the ones who do it themselves while they're at work.
No.

But local sure needs fixing.


Pretty obvious you would be very butthurt if CCP change AFK cloaking for the better.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#44 - 2012-08-04 04:18:38 UTC
Electra002 wrote:
Pretty obvious you would be very butthurt if CCP change AFK cloaking for the better.
I wouldn't be particularly butthurt if they fixed local, no.
Electra002
Warp to Zero Holding
#45 - 2012-08-04 04:36:22 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Electra002 wrote:
Pretty obvious you would be very butthurt if CCP change AFK cloaking for the better.
I wouldn't be particularly butthurt if they fixed local, no.


Local? Whats wrong with it?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#46 - 2012-08-04 04:42:17 UTC
Electra002 wrote:
Local? Whats wrong with it?
It's the cause of “AFK cloaking”.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#47 - 2012-08-04 04:46:45 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Apo Lyptica wrote:
I think we pretty much agree that afk cloakers are a problem.
No.
Electra002 wrote:
AFK cloaking IS a problem, and all the people who are here disagreeing are the ones who do it themselves while they're at work.
No.

But local sure needs fixing.


yeah what the game definitely needs is the end of all non-fleet activity in nullsec

let me tell you how difficult it is to warp a bomber around looking for a target to point and light a cyno on

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#48 - 2012-08-04 04:51:46 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
let me tell you how difficult it is to warp a bomber around looking for a target to point and light a cyno on
A lot less difficult than it would be if you had to actually collect the and analyse intel yourself.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#49 - 2012-08-04 04:53:04 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
let me tell you how difficult it is to warp a bomber around looking for a target to point and light a cyno on
A lot less difficult than it would be if you had to actually collect the and analyse intel yourself.

"collect and analyze intel" = spamming dscan which won't help given that we have ships that can warp cloaked

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#50 - 2012-08-04 04:54:40 UTC
and the extent of the "intel gathering" by the guy in the bomber is "open map, view NPC kills/industry level"

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#51 - 2012-08-04 05:04:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard Desturned
in any case it won't be long before some dev, entranced by the siren song of small gang warfare, decides that nullsec should be Just Like Wormholes except with gates, stations, 100% scan signatures, asteroid belts, functioning jump drives and whatnot, only for nullsec to become a desert where the only players doing anything are supercapital pilots who fund their PvP with alts running incursions in hisec, until CCP realizes 30 months later that it was a mistake

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#52 - 2012-08-04 05:04:56 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
"collect and analyze intel" = spamming dscan which won't help given that we have ships that can warp cloaked
…and likewise, spamming dscan doesn't let you find what's in the system.

Quote:
and the extent of the "intel gathering" by the guy in the bomber is "open map, view NPC kills/industry level"
…and then he has to figure out whether anyone is around right now. Then he has to find them. And then he has to gamble on whether or not they have back-up. So no, that is not the full extent of the intel gathering the bomber pilot has to do unless he has no intention of killing anyone. If he doesn't, there's no need for him to even be in the system to begin with.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#53 - 2012-08-04 05:08:32 UTC
Tippia wrote:
…and then he has to figure out whether anyone is around right now. Then he has to find them. And then he has to gamble on whether or not they have back-up. So no, that is not the full extent of the intel gathering the bomber pilot has to do unless he has no intention of killing anyone. If he doesn't, there's no need for him to even be in the system to begin with.


yeah because it's not difficult to find out what timezones a given alliance is active in

it's not difficult to warp between anoms (which you don't have to probe down) while cloaked in a bomber

they have backup? oh no, a bomber loss, what will they ever do

nobody in system? go to the other system that has a ton of NPC kills or a high industry level

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#54 - 2012-08-04 05:18:35 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
yeah because it's not difficult to find out what timezones a given alliance is active in
…which doesn't tell you who and what's in the system or whether anyone is around right now. You have to actually discover it for yourself rather than have the exact information fed to you for free.

Quote:
it's not difficult to warp between anoms (which you don't have to probe down) while cloaked in a bomber
…which doesn't mean you'll find anything. You have to actually travel around and do some legwork rather than have the information fed to you for free.

Quote:
they have backup? oh no, a bomber loss, what will they ever do
They will rejoice, since it's exactly the kind of loss that people want to enable: the death of the cloaker. We're talking about the “AFK cloaker” whine, remember? The supposed problem is that they can't kill the guy… but now, they did.

Quote:
nobody in system? go to the other system that has a ton of NPC kills or a high industry level
…which doesn't tell you who or what's in the system or whether anyone is around right now. Again, you have to actually work for the information you need rather than get it for free.

Above all, you are no longer able to “AFK cloak”, and the uncertainty of whether or not something is around that might attack you is shared by both sides. Both have to gamble and/or learn to employ counter-tactics rather than rely on (and abuse/get their panties in a twist over) free intel.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#55 - 2012-08-04 05:21:55 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
yeah because it's not difficult to find out what timezones a given alliance is active in
…which doesn't tell you who and what's in the system or whether anyone is around right now. You have to actually discover it for yourself rather than have the exact information fed to you for free.

Quote:
it's not difficult to warp between anoms (which you don't have to probe down) while cloaked in a bomber
…which doesn't mean you'll find anything. You have to actually travel around and do some legwork rather than have the information fed to you for free.


because local tells you exactly where everyone in a given system is, and you already know where to warp

please don't pretend that a system with 10000 NPC kills in Cobalt Edge is going to be empty in deep US prime and I might just take your argument more seriously

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#56 - 2012-08-04 05:24:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Denidil
Chatte Noire wrote:
As a pubbie, I have to ask: is this fuzz about afk-cloakers just about seeing a non-blue name in local and fearing that every second, this cloaker could come back to the keyboard and stalk you? Honest question.


yes.. but it isn't entirely an irrational fear

that cloakie that they're not sure if it is afk might be carry a covops cyno. normal cynos show up as a beacon in system when lit, covops don't.

so say there is a cloaky recon in your system, and you have a nice juicy mining op going on because you think they're afk.. and are safe.

they're not afk.

they light a covops cyno. black ops battleship bridges in a bunch more stealth bombers and an additional recon or two then jumps in-system.

stealth bombers warp to your mining op and bomb you.

kiss a bunch of hulks/mackinaws and possibly an orca (if one of those recons fit a point) goodbye.

when they're done they warp to safe, bridge back out of system.

so the problem isn't afk cloakers per-se but that there is no way to know if they're actually afk.

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#57 - 2012-08-04 05:26:18 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
because local tells you exactly where everyone in a given system is, and you already know where to warp
No. But it gives you instant, constant, and 100% accurate information for free about who's there.

On the one hand, it creates this silly “AFK cloaker” fear, and on the other, it gives vital tactical information about the viability of hunting for targets. All of it is bad, largely due to the whole “instant, constant, free” part…
Ghazu
#58 - 2012-08-04 05:30:54 UTC
lol -A-

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#59 - 2012-08-04 05:46:31 UTC
Tippia wrote:
No. But it gives you instant, constant, and 100% accurate information for free about who's there.

On the one hand, it creates this silly “AFK cloaker” fear, and on the other, it gives vital tactical information about the viability of hunting for targets. All of it is bad, largely due to the whole “instant, constant, free” part…


on the other hand, nobody will bother actually living in nullsec except to join fleets because having to spam dscan for utterly useless information is tedious and not worth the 10% extra income you'd get over simply farming l4s in hisec where all risk of nonconsensual PvP is being gradually reduced to nothing

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Chokichi Ozuwara
Perkone
Caldari State
#60 - 2012-08-04 06:00:07 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
on the other hand, nobody will bother actually living in nullsec except to join fleets because having to spam dscan for utterly useless information is tedious and not worth the 10% extra income you'd get over simply farming l4s in hisec where all risk of nonconsensual PvP is being gradually reduced to nothing

Nonsense, There are plenty of players in Wormholes doing just that.

I am with Tippia. Remove local. Then nerf Tech so that Goons have to earn their ships just like the rest of us.

Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round.