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Combat Arts: Kiting and Close Quarters
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Lord Arakkis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-08-04 02:26:17 UTC
Anyone with experience care to share strategy and thoughts on these tactics. Im fairly new and so far each fight ive been in has been an up close and personal affair. Id like to learn about properly kiting and some of the strategies involved.

Thanks

Your still a child in the eyes of the universe
Vordak Kallager
Descendance.
GoonSwarm.
#2 - 2012-08-04 03:09:55 UTC
It's all about the range dictation and projecting your DPS. Orbiting is not optimal, unless you are much faster than they are. I'm not sure how other people do it, but I generally have my default "Keep at Range" to 100km and I alternate between approaching the target and "Keeping at Range" to them in order to control my range and prevent them from escaping, etc, otherwise I manually pilot although that takes more practice/reflexes/experience to pull off.

Sa souvraya niende misain ye.
Whar Target
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-08-04 03:12:09 UTC
Basically you use a faster ship and dictate the range of the fight. Hopefully you have a weapon with a much better effective range than your opponent does. This tactic becomes more effective the further you push it. Examples being a 100mn tengu with a faction point, web, and fleet bonuses.

I've seen arty thrashers kite people also. They rely mainly on people being dumb enough to chase them and get instapopped. Once had a boosted Tengu kite a few corp mates away from the fleet. Initially he didn't even have a point on them, just lobbing missiles at them while burning away. Once they were 50km away from the fleet, the tengu shuts off the 100mn and points the person who was dumb enough to chase him.
Dread Operative
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#4 - 2012-08-04 03:57:55 UTC
Kiting with 3 boosting alts in system seems to be working pretty well.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#5 - 2012-08-04 04:44:19 UTC
Dread Operative wrote:
Kiting with 3 boosting alts in system seems to be working pretty well.


Off grid boosting is going away per the CSM minutes. If you can't fly without them you'll be in poor shape later on.

To the OP: every ship tends to have a counter. A slicer can kite most ships. An arty thrasher or rail catalyst will eat a slicer alive though. The destroyers in turn can be killed by AB Dramiels that get under their guns.
Ctzn Snips
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-08-04 04:53:42 UTC
Dread Operative wrote:
Kiting with 3 boosting alts in system seems to be working pretty well.



This
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#7 - 2012-08-04 06:16:07 UTC  |  Edited by: RavenPaine
My best kiting has been done in Hacs or Recon ships. Where I was generally primary very early on.
I can't explain the mechanics, but the mentality is: Save the ship, stay in the fight.
I zoom out, watch my overview (Set for range) and see who is closing in.
Then it's instinct and visuals. turn the wrong way and that might be the only mistake you get...

For Interceptors and such, I just set an orbit at 21000 and hit the mwd.
I don't fly these much though.

Most of my experience is in small fleet roams. Very little solo work.


As for close quarters. I am aware of my DPS optimal, and I try and get there asap. When I sense the target is going down, I start looking at my next victim and start the approach on him.
Lord Arakkis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-08-04 22:11:58 UTC
So Im seeing the methodology here. Keep them out of their range, switch from approach and burning away (if necessary). So that leaves me with the question of how do you keep your opponent from escaping? Are there mods that have that kind of range to scram or web?

Your still a child in the eyes of the universe
Oblong Chunk
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-08-05 00:52:47 UTC
orbit.. keep at range.. wtf guys. you all fail. You have to manually pilot the ship by clicking in space. It's the only way to avoid slingshots etc... Pilot skill makes a huge difference. Add velocity and transversal to overview and get used to what your guns can track and how to move to get better trackin (and with that a LOT more REAL dps)...
Lord Arakkis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-08-05 01:09:09 UTC
Oblong Chunk wrote:
orbit.. keep at range.. wtf guys. you all fail. You have to manually pilot the ship by clicking in space. It's the only way to avoid slingshots etc... Pilot skill makes a huge difference. Add velocity and transversal to overview and get used to what your guns can track and how to move to get better trackin (and with that a LOT more REAL dps)...


Yea I hadnt thought of transversal and what not as from what I see, tons of people beeline for a ship they think they cant take. So with that in my overview, what am I looking for the numbers to say. Do I want them higher than my weapons tracking or lower? I assume the lower the better

Your still a child in the eyes of the universe
Taoist Dragon
Okata Syndicate
#11 - 2012-08-05 12:29:32 UTC
Transversal means jack squat compared to weapon stats.

Put angular velocity on your overview - this is in rads/sec (basically how fast the target is going around you) and is the same a the tracking stat. So keep your angular down below your tracking stat and you can hit you target if in range etc etc.

Transversal is a vector measurement of how fast something is going perpendicular to you.....therefore transfersal isn't affected by range and you could be getting hit cos the further out you orbit the less angular velocity you have and therefore are easier to track and hit.

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
Scion Lex
The Unspoken Ones
OnlyHoles
#12 - 2012-08-05 14:27:51 UTC
Taoist Dragon wrote:
Transversal means jack squat compared to weapon stats.

Put angular velocity on your overview - this is in rads/sec (basically how fast the target is going around you) and is the same a the tracking stat. So keep your angular down below your tracking stat and you can hit you target if in range etc etc.

Transversal is a vector measurement of how fast something is going perpendicular to you.....therefore transfersal isn't affected by range and you could be getting hit cos the further out you orbit the less angular velocity you have and therefore are easier to track and hit.



I approve of this message
Major Killz
inglorious bastards.
#13 - 2012-08-05 15:40:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Major Killz
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
Dread Operative wrote:
Kiting with 3 boosting alts in system seems to be working pretty well.


Off grid boosting is going away per the CSM minutes. If you can't fly without them you'll be in poor shape later on.

To the OP: every ship tends to have a counter. A slicer can kite most ships. An arty thrasher or rail catalyst will eat a slicer alive though. The destroyers in turn can be killed by AB Dramiels that get under their guns.



I've already sold my 2 off grid boosting characters \0/. yeah! 30 bil back in the bank! Although I still have one left, but's its bad and its really only a orca/jump/rorqual frieghter pilot that can use t1 skirmish, armor and siege warfare links v0v

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ！[/u]
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#14 - 2012-08-05 16:52:58 UTC
Also very important: When trying to kite, make sure your ship has a long point... recently just grabbed a tornado i thought was mine and only realized in nullsec that some uniquely minded person fitted it with a scram and three gyros...
Adeleda Adoudel
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2012-08-05 17:25:14 UTC
Kiting frigs in a nano shield oracle. Watching for their transversal to drop and firing a volley at them.. or pulling them into range of my slower fleetmates.
Dies in a fire if theyre mwd fitted. Oh well. Its all fun in the end.
Taoist Dragon
Okata Syndicate
#16 - 2012-08-11 21:01:08 UTC
People need to stop worrying about transversal and start thinking angular velocity.

Eg you are in a frig at 100km from a BS, doing 3km/s. you will have high transversal to the BS. But you will have little in the way of angular velocity as you orbit is so large you are NOT actually orbiting very fast and his guns will track you.

Set up you overview to include angular and you will see what it is and cam make better judgement on how well they will be tracking you. As angular is the same for both ships seeing as eve doesn't account for ship orientation.

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
The VC's
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2012-08-12 00:22:17 UTC  |  Edited by: The VC's
Oblong Chunk wrote:
orbit.. keep at range.. wtf guys. you all fail. You have to manually pilot the ship by clicking in space. It's the only way to avoid slingshots etc... Pilot skill makes a huge difference. Add velocity and transversal to overview and get used to what your guns can track and how to move to get better trackin (and with that a LOT more REAL dps)...



While in most cases this is true, it can be very difficult to pull off in a fast frig. Keep at range/Approach is your best bet. Orbiting itself can bork your tracking and hit quality.

Sometimes though, a little touch of orbit can give you a more gradual approach. Say, you don't want to get closer than 15km, your optimal is 17km and you are at 18km. Set orbit to 14km and you will linger in the 15-17km sweet spot for longer. Then spam keep at range at 15km, and repeat. You won't actually ever orbit.

Just keep an eye out for others on grid. Be ready to make an odd manual correction now and again to stay out of trouble.
Lord Arakkis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2012-08-12 00:54:25 UTC
The VC's wrote:
Oblong Chunk wrote:
orbit.. keep at range.. wtf guys. you all fail. You have to manually pilot the ship by clicking in space. It's the only way to avoid slingshots etc... Pilot skill makes a huge difference. Add velocity and transversal to overview and get used to what your guns can track and how to move to get better trackin (and with that a LOT more REAL dps)...



While in most cases this is true, it can be very difficult to pull off in a fast frig. Keep at range/Approach is your best bet. Orbiting itself can bork your tracking and hit quality.

Sometimes though, a little touch of orbit can give you a more gradual approach. Say, you don't want to get closer than 15km, your optimal is 17km and you are at 18km. Set orbit to 14km and you will linger in the 15-17km sweet spot for longer. Then spam keep at range at 15km, and repeat. You won't actually ever orbit.

Just keep an eye out for others on grid. Be ready to make an odd manual correction now and again to stay out of trouble.



Good point, I will practice this tonight indeed. That is if I can actually find something to shoot in low sec lol. People seem to avoid me...

Your still a child in the eyes of the universe
San Severina
One Point 0
#19 - 2012-08-12 01:09:19 UTC
Lord Arakkis wrote:
So Im seeing the methodology here. Keep them out of their range, switch from approach and burning away (if necessary). So that leaves me with the question of how do you keep your opponent from escaping? Are there mods that have that kind of range to scram or web?


You wanna be real careful with the approach & burning away, make sure to keep your transversal up, you really gotta do it manually most times. Practice makes perfect. Do what I do, stock up on Dessys & Cruisers then go out & lose them & learn from your mistakes.
Taoist Dragon
Okata Syndicate
#20 - 2012-08-12 02:20:35 UTC
Why does everyone think transversal when talking about tracking?!

FFS people the tracking stat is in rads/s. Put angular velocity on your overview as it is measured in rads/s.....

if it is less than your tracking stat for your guns then tracking isn't a problem...you then have to think of range and damage projection to get max applied DPS.

This is also usefull when attacking ranged fits or bigger ships...all you need to do is look up there tracking and ensure that your angular velocity is kept above their tracking stats and below yours and you then can keep 'under the guns' of your opponent.


I repeat - TRANSVERSAL MEANS JACK SQUAT COMPARED TO WEAPON STATS. compare like for like and you'll find it much easier to avoid damage and apply yours better.

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
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