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BS or Tengu for very specific needs?
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Tillimitrus Sand
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2012-08-02 21:40:58 UTC
So, I am at a bit of a crossroads with my main. I use that toon to run L4 missions for CPF in Caldari highsec to make isk for pew. I need to be able to melt L4s as fast as I can, not blitzing just kill the rooms fast and Noctis later. The problem is do I go Tengu or BS. I was using a Raven but I have to warp out frequently. I have good shield support and missile skills but only lvl 4 in cruise missiles and lvl 3 in Caldari BS. So I switched to a passive Drake with T2 heavy launchers and that laughs at the room aggro but kills slow. I have prereqs for the Tengu done but I don’t want to spend the isk on the Tengu if using a Rave/CNR would be better for my very specific needs to melt L4s even if I have to stay in the Drake while I train the BS skills. Suggestions?
If you want to fly safe then dock up. I always fly deadly. - Xeris 7
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#2 - 2012-08-02 21:47:46 UTC
Discussion (rant) on why the Tengu is NOT the king of missions: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=139173&find=unread

If your aim is to clear rooms in Caldari High-sec, I'd suggest the Navy Dominix. But that's a LOOOONG train. CNR is almost as good and you're part way there.
Tillimitrus Sand
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2012-08-02 21:56:27 UTC
Paikis wrote:
Discussion (rant) on why the Tengu is NOT the king of missions: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=139173&find=unread

If your aim is to clear rooms in Caldari High-sec, I'd suggest the Navy Dominix. But that's a LOOOONG train. CNR is almost as good and you're part way there.


Actually I use to use a Domi years ago and I have T2 heavies and sentries. But everyone is missiles! missiles! Missiles are l33t! I also have Amarr BS at V but lasors are meh on Guistas.
If you want to fly safe then dock up. I always fly deadly. - Xeris 7
Equus
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2012-08-02 22:28:04 UTC
Tillimitrus Sand wrote:
So, I am at a bit of a crossroads with my main. I use that toon to run L4 missions for CPF in Caldari highsec to make isk for pew. I need to be able to melt L4s as fast as I can, not blitzing just kill the rooms fast and Noctis later. The problem is do I go Tengu or BS. I was using a Raven but I have to warp out frequently. I have good shield support and missile skills but only lvl 4 in cruise missiles and lvl 3 in Caldari BS. So I switched to a passive Drake with T2 heavy launchers and that laughs at the room aggro but kills slow. I have prereqs for the Tengu done but I don’t want to spend the isk on the Tengu if using a Rave/CNR would be better for my very specific needs to melt L4s even if I have to stay in the Drake while I train the BS skills. Suggestions?


In my limited experience, I burn through missions faster in my Vargur, things just pop so much quicker. Tengu is do-able, especially on rats weak to Kinetic damage, and yes they can burn faster to gates, but on average in my experience, the tengu just doesn't measure up. my vargur can easily get over 1000 dps, and if I am remembering correctly with HML my tengu gets about 675 or so, this is primarily T2 fit for damage mods. Also, a flight of light drones takes out small, tough targets, like elite frigs and spider drones a lot faster than heavy missiles. Again this is all personal experience/feelings, your mileage may vary.

Remember though, none of them are going to be really fast until you get your skills up, an unskilled tengu is just as bad if not worse than an unskilled raven or domi, or, yadda yadda.
GordonO
BURN EDEN
#5 - 2012-08-03 00:01:26 UTC
I can use a CNR and a Tengu. They both work very well. With the CNR I find I have to pay a little more attention to mission triggers but it does clear BS heavy rooms quicker than a tengu. I would suggest training up your BS skills if the CNR is your chosen route. I would however still use the BS over the drake.
If you tank mission specific you should be fine, even in a standard Raven. If cost is an issue, get a SNI, less dps than a CNR but with a comparable tank you can fit 2 x TP and 3 x rigors which helps deal damage to cruisers better than the CNR.

Maybe link you fit and we can advise based on that.

... What next ??
Klymer
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2012-08-03 02:27:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Klymer
Tillimitrus Sand wrote:
......... only lvl 4 in cruise missiles and lvl 3 in Caldari BS..........


The Raven/CNR don't really shine until you have T2 cruise missiles, true for all cruise missile ships really, up to that point their damage output is pretty meh. Caldari BS skill really helps them out as well, get it to 4 minimum and if you plan to use the CNR a lot then push it to 5. You also want guided missile precision and target navigation prediction at 5 and a full set of rigors.


Tillimitrus Sand wrote:
......... I have T2 heavies and sentries..........



With the T2 drone damage mods you really should take another look at the Domi. The damage it can put out will embarrass even a very highly skilled CNR. Of course if you want something more agile then look at the Ishtar or Gila.
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#7 - 2012-08-03 02:33:15 UTC
Klymer wrote:
With the T2 drone damage mods you really should take another look at the Domi. The damage it can put out will embarrass even a very highly skilled CNR. Of course if you want something more agile then look at the Ishtar or Gila.


It should be noted that although the Domi has very nice damage, that damage is only applied fully out to 40-ish KMs. CNR will apply its DPS equally to everything it can target.
Tillimitrus Sand
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2012-08-03 05:46:48 UTC
I was wondering if the new drone damage mods would breath life into drone Pve ships. You guys really think they could be that good?Ugh
If you want to fly safe then dock up. I always fly deadly. - Xeris 7
colimator
Perkone
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-08-03 07:47:34 UTC
Tillimitrus Sand wrote:
I was wondering if the new drone damage mods would breath life into drone Pve ships. You guys really think they could be that good?Ugh


It's personal preference, really. They do measure up to the gun/missile boats (keeping the isk spent equivalent).

I fly and own Domi/Navy Domi/Ishtar/Gila for a lot of purposes - PVE-wise i do lvl4's, nullsec anomalies, DED's, combat sites in them. You do need to micro-manage your drones at times, and you only get high dps numbers from non-lazy high-sp fits (if you want to go AFK and come back to salvage, they can do that, but don't expect machariel/vindi level DPS)
Tillimitrus Sand
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2012-08-03 15:48:11 UTC
Not interested in AFK. I want to murder entire room fulls of rats as fast as possible while still being able to tank them then move on to the next room. It seems that drones would slow that down by having to motor all over it to shoot the rats.
If you want to fly safe then dock up. I always fly deadly. - Xeris 7
Lo Jac
Polaris Cynon
#11 - 2012-08-03 16:47:51 UTC
I'd suggest taking the time to properly train up a Golem. If not, I'd use a properly fitted Tengu over a CNR/Nav Scorp...
Tillimitrus Sand
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2012-08-03 18:21:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Tillimitrus Sand
Lo Jac wrote:
I'd suggest taking the time to properly train up a Golem. If not, I'd use a properly fitted Tengu over a CNR/Nav Scorp...


But a CNR is on the way to a Golem...What?

Oh..and when you guys say CNR we are talking about the Raven Navy Issue, correct?
If you want to fly safe then dock up. I always fly deadly. - Xeris 7
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#13 - 2012-08-03 18:34:39 UTC
Tillimitrus Sand wrote:
Oh..and when you guys say CNR we are talking about the Raven Navy Issue, correct?


Caldari Navy Raven is the old name. The forums (myself included) are all rather stuck on the old names (or at least abbreviations based on the old names) for everything (eg, PDU, BCU, DCU, CNR, etc).
BaruCK
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-08-03 19:22:57 UTC
Train for Machariel and be happy.Big smile
Tillimitrus Sand
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2012-08-03 20:15:05 UTC
Well, after reading the forums and the info in this thread it appears that there are as many opinions on the "best" ship as there are BSs. Some make pretty good arguments.

After looking over my skills and your suggestions I think I will switch back to the Dominix/Navy Domi. My gunnery skills are 4/5s, My BS skill is equal in Gallente and Caldari, I have over 2.5 million in drones with only Sentry interface at 4 between me and T2 sentries and my missile skills are 3/4 and still need to train Warhead upgrades with only HML trained to T2s.

The question then is do I just get a Domi or go ahead and just pick up a Navy issue? Any suggestion on rigs? That shield Domi in the linked thread looks interesting but I don't know if that can tank something like Worlds Collide.
If you want to fly safe then dock up. I always fly deadly. - Xeris 7
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#16 - 2012-08-03 21:58:01 UTC
you may want to take a look at the vargur. not only does it have slightly btter dps than a tengu, it can also salvage on the go.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Tillimitrus Sand
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2012-08-03 22:26:07 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
you may want to take a look at the vargur. not only does it have slightly btter dps than a tengu, it can also salvage on the go.


Isn't that the Minmatar Marauder? I can fly a Tempest but I am no closer to a Vargur than I am any marauder.
If you want to fly safe then dock up. I always fly deadly. - Xeris 7
Kasutra
No Vacancies
No Vacancies.
#18 - 2012-08-04 04:24:40 UTC
Tillimitrus Sand wrote:
Not interested in AFK. I want to murder entire room fulls of rats as fast as possible while still being able to tank them then move on to the next room. It seems that drones would slow that down by having to motor all over it to shoot the rats.

Don't use slowboating drones. Use sentries and never look back (unless you get swarmed by Angels or something, in that case out with the heavies!).

Tillimitrus Sand wrote:
The question then is do I just get a Domi or go ahead and just pick up a Navy issue? Any suggestion on rigs? That shield Domi in the linked thread looks interesting but I don't know if that can tank something like Worlds Collide.


The Navy Domi is significantly better. Don't get one if you couldn't afford to lose one, though. (Golden rule of EVE 'nall.)

Aside from the combination of a Cap Flux Coil and MemCells (wut?), the linked thread looks like something I'd try. I'd use the Navy issue midslot on another Omnilink, and probably try to squeeze on a full rack of 425mms (I guess it would need a PDU in place of that Flux Coil). And shield booster selection is very open.


The first time you go through Worlds Collide, make sure your cap is at a decent level before you jump into the second room. It should tank fine... until the cap runs out. Better kill everything before it becomes an issue! Lol
Tragedy
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2012-08-04 04:32:28 UTC
If all you're interested in is killing quick machariels are amazing. Nightmares as well but they're only good in amarr space against EM weak rats.
Anya Ohaya
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-08-04 06:15:36 UTC
Tillimitrus Sand wrote:
Paikis wrote:
Discussion (rant) on why the Tengu is NOT the king of missions: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=139173&find=unread

If your aim is to clear rooms in Caldari High-sec, I'd suggest the Navy Dominix. But that's a LOOOONG train. CNR is almost as good and you're part way there.


Actually I use to use a Domi years ago and I have T2 heavies and sentries. But everyone is missiles! missiles! Missiles are l33t! I also have Amarr BS at V but lasors are meh on Guistas.


With the new DDAs drones are the bomb. A shield tanked Navy Domi can put out 950 DPS, more with Sentries. Cuts through battleships like they are made of paper mache.
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