Market Discussions

I saw this thread topic and thought to myself: "Oh, looks like someone fell for the margin trading scam again."

Then I clicked the thread and though: "Yup."

I use margin trading a lot and I think it could be tweaked to reduce this scam while still being useful for legitimate businessmen such as myself. Allow multiple margin buy orders to exceed the amount of ISK in your wallet, but any single order whose outstanding cost exceeds your wallet at any time is canceled, and you lose your broker fees.

The scam would still be possible, but reduced, because scammers would have to put up multiple orders to do it and at least some of those orders would execute. Sellers could protect themselves by moving flipping small lots to match individual orders, since one order will be funded but two+ may not be.

Legitimate use would also still be possible. We can set up a bunch of speculative long-term orders exceeding our actual assets, and continue daily play with our wallets so long as we don't deplete them below the largest outstanding margin call. It would help to show that value somewhere in the UI, but overall I think it would work with minimal disruption.

I also like the idea of color-coding orders which are not fully funded, although people new enough to fall for the scam will probably confuse "can't buy the whole order" with "can't buy anything" and overcompensate.

Margin Trading = a reason to leave eve.

shouldnt be just the toon should go to the main on the account if the char in debt is ever biomassed. and set a minimum skill point for margin trading to discourage biomassing the main.

anyway op got greedy. nothing in life is free (eve included) all i'll suggest is turn it around and hope someone else falls for it and you make your isk back.

I am proud of this thread. Fear not, for your money has been put to good use!

The money is not the issue Heinrich... It wasn't that big of an amount, it took me less of a week to recover.. it's the scam tat matters. But there are other ways of repaying that!

on other hand, i'd like to see possibility to put sell orders with only partial amount of assets available.

Well yes, but the specific character does and he roam around Tama and Dandumi and other systems around that area usually evenings (EVE time)...

I have done my homework, but didn't have much time to play lately due to real life and work... when I get the time though...

Even if it has been known to people for a long time, Eve is a big place and for most people it is always something new to learn (if you want to fully understand a concept, it is easy to jump around and try stuff).

I don't think it is the market vets that falls for this scam, and if you do your homework I am sure you can avoid it. But lets face it most people don't think, lets try something different, I will start to go on the forum and read 1000+ post about the subject.
If we set that as a entry standard on everything in EVE we would have very few players, I personally think EVE already suffer from the level of complexity and lack of instant gratification that most other mmorpg have.

Margin trading are one of those skills that I believe is easily overlooked when you enter the market and if you don't have a decent basic understanding of economics, it would be even easier to miss the potential in this skill.
Margin trading adds a level of complexity that are advantageous for older player or more precis for players that prey upon others. It also hits them where it hurts from an angel a new player have a limited chance of knowing.
This guy comes to mind.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=14194&find=unread
We can argue about the value of his contribution to EVE, but I doubt it he is the only one getting burned out there.

I like the skill Margin trading very much, but I have started to doubt the positive effects it has on EVE as a whole. It serves people with many orders and a lot of ISK, in general older player. It raises the entry bar for new players to get in on the market, both skill wise and that players don't have to choose in what items they want to trade or produce. I find my self still trading in T1 goods because it don't cost me much to put up buy orders on huge amount of items and just let my orders sit there and simmer.


At GavinCapacitor:
It is easy being elitist in areas we already have all the answers in, but we all started out as noobs. I find myself constantly humbled in EVE and no matter how small it is every now and then I discover something new..

There is an exceptionally easy way to fix this and it would take very little coding.

Make it so the minimum order amount required cannot exceed the amount of ISK in escrow.

So if you place a buy order for a total of 1 billion isk and you only have to put up 500 million in escrow, then the minimum number of items required cannot exceed the 500 million.

Required amount x cost < escrow

Very easy fix to this scam.