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CCP any plans on Debian & Red Hat based clients?
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Julius Rigel
#21 - 2012-08-03 18:55:23 UTC
fenistil wrote:
EVE runs with some smart thinking on Linux.
Let me interject for a moment, "With some smart thinking"? My pet monkey could install eve through WINE on a bad day.

If you've already managed to get a linux distro running without ruining your floppy drive with tomato sauce in the process like the median of the population would, then you've already done the necessary "smart thinking".

Besides, I was playing eve on linux back in 2009 before it was cool.

Anyway, isn't this a discussion of a feature? Should this not go in FAID rather than GD?

Do YOU like to undock?
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#22 - 2012-08-03 18:56:37 UTC
Corvus Borealis wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
Hey guys, 2 multibillion dollar giant companies are just going to up and vanish overnight, you heard it here first, this prophet of industry couldn't possibly be wrong.

Nokia.

Was worth hunders of billions.

Now? less than 6 billion euros..


While I appreciate your enthusiasm for something, I'm pretty sure you're clueless.



Can you name me the major world wide companies that have tanked out and completely died in the past 40 years?



Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Sarmatiko
#23 - 2012-08-03 18:57:16 UTC
I'm pretty sure that majority of EVE players still have Windows XP on their machines. In 2-3 years they will move to Win 7 and with Dx11 support there will be like 5+ years of stable development.
EVE Online can simply skip Windows 8, Windows 9, Windows 10. There is no place for Linux, sorry.
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#24 - 2012-08-03 18:57:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Denidil
you're an idiot. GabeN (valve) is only butthurt because of Windows Store - suddenly COMPETITION. Not that those of us on steam are suddenly going to switch to using windows store

the new "Modern UI" skin is just a mild annoyance - all the technical details under the hood are pretty much improvements for gaming.


Features New in Win8

Noteable improvements for gamers:

Better Multimonitor support
Easier to read performance tab in task manager (more visual)
New software raid system build into windows (can use it for perf, and thin provision it)
USB3
Faster boot
Windows Display Driver Model 1.2 and DX Graphics Infrastructure 1.2: Performance improvements, stereoscopic 3D rendering, and video playback. with a better video driver multitasking model


[edit]
for the sake of full disclosure i must disclose that i work for one of the parties involved.

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Equus
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2012-08-03 18:59:08 UTC
When will people understand that arguing with a zealot like Corvus is utterly pointless? People like him have blinders, they cannot see other points of view, they don't care about what has happened in the past, nothing, you will never win I used to have a boss with the exact same attitude, if your opinion was not his, you were wrong.
Alexandra Alt
Doomheim
#26 - 2012-08-03 19:01:13 UTC
Vera Algaert wrote:
Corvus Borealis wrote:
http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/linux/

Read the blog.

I may remind you that Valve is the creator of Half Life and CS.

Two most epic 'box office hit's in gaming industry.

and I remind you that Valve is a software distributor first and foremost and that nobody likes to wake up to find out that Microsoft is pushing aggressively into his core market

So far Steam has very little competition (games for windows live is a joke, Origin suffers from association with EA) and this might change significantly with Windows 8 - can't expect Gabe to be happy about that.


And should I remind you that Valve is also someone who sets standards in gaming industry, and the first was CS/HL, then Steam, now the port of their tools/games away from windows. On the first 2 everyone else followed, I don't see why others won't with the third.

In the end, the amount of Linux ignorants and Windows biggots in this thread is over 9000, if you're going to make a point about something, at least get instructed on it, don't read lightly the first google search result you get and come and talk like if you have a degree on it...

EvE won't have a linux client ever, mainly because all their development tools/framework/etc is done on windows (I don't know how ppl start a game on python and then end up on windows.....) so don't get your hopes high. Specially after their recent internal revamp in tools/logs etc, all is done on windows, I'm sure they won't spend more precious time porting everything to linux at least in the recent future.
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2012-08-03 19:02:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Vera Algaert
Grath Telkin wrote:
Can you name me the major world wide companies that have tanked out and completely died in the past 40 years?

there are quite a few "failed" big companies - but usually they get bought out by/merge into a competitor long before they have "completely died", why throw away all that brand recognition and goodwill?

.
Alexandra Alt
Doomheim
#28 - 2012-08-03 19:02:47 UTC
Denidil wrote:
you're an idiot. GabeN (valve) is only butthurt because of Windows Store - suddenly COMPETITION. Not that those of us on steam are suddenly going to switch to using windows store

the new "Modern UI" skin is just a mild annoyance - all the technical details under the hood are pretty much improvements for gaming.



Oh look lol, the conspiracy theorists!! Goonswarm didn't want that system anyway, see what I did there ?
Sarmatiko
#29 - 2012-08-03 19:04:27 UTC
fenistil wrote:
Linky 1: http://www.geek.com/articles/games/steam-for-linux-will-launch-in-2012-2012065/
Linky 2: http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/linux/


Weeeeeee 3+ years old junk like HL1, Portal, and L4D are coming to Linux after so many years. No one have played this games before. Truly amazing, world changing and revolutionary!!1111
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#30 - 2012-08-03 19:05:42 UTC
http://massively.joystiq.com/2009/02/09/ccp-games-drops-linux-client-support-for-eve-online/

Explains quite nicely why there isn't any Linux client and you (OP) seem a little high on what Valve have stated. Personally, I wonder how far they could have gotten on Half-Life 3 if they put the same same development time as they put in on this.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
Anubis Star
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2012-08-03 19:07:19 UTC
honestly, after years of using linux. I switched to windows 7 to try it, and after some time a mate showed me eve. Since I am a lazy ass and heard alot of **** about eve and linux, I never tried it. Anyone here has experience with multiclients under linux? I may switch again, since win get's anyoing
Saint Lazarus
Spiorad ag fanaiocht
#32 - 2012-08-03 19:07:56 UTC
Has everyone forgotten that there WAS a Linux Client, was a disaster that no one used (Even the Linux users just ran Windows client through WINE) so they discontinued it, because its enough work keeping Windows one working! plus god yea, the mac one
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2012-08-03 19:08:16 UTC
Quote:
In the end, the amount of Linux ignorants and Windows biggots in this thread is over 9000, if you're going to make a point about something, at least get instructed on it, don't read lightly the first google search result you get and come and talk like if you have a degree on it..

I used Linux exclusively for several years and always have a Linux installation lying around somewhere to play around with it.
Even ran EVE on Linux (after having to swap my graphics card due to Wine not liking my old one, :cripes:) for a few weeks earlier this year.

Quote:
EvE won't have a linux client ever, mainly because all their development tools/framework/etc is done on windows.

EVE used to have a Linux client which used just the same compatibility-layer (a Wine fork) that the current Mac client still uses. CCP decided that there are not enough Linux users to warrant supporting the platform further and observed that open-source Wine did deliver better performance than Cedega anyways.

.
Alexandra Alt
Doomheim
#34 - 2012-08-03 19:09:58 UTC
Denidil wrote:

the new "Modern UI" skin is just a mild annoyance - all the technical details under the hood are pretty much improvements for gaming.


Features New in Win8

Noteable improvements for gamers:

Better Multimonitor support
Easier to read performance tab in task manager (more visual)
New software raid system build into windows (can use it for perf, and thin provision it)
USB3
Faster boot
Windows Display Driver Model 1.2 and DX Graphics Infrastructure 1.2: Performance improvements, stereoscopic 3D rendering, and video playback. with a better video driver multitasking model


[edit]
for the sake of full disclosure i must disclose that i work for one of the parties involved.


We can tell you do work for one of the parties, and (as usual) you don't do your homework well enough. Not that this post is going to add anything interesting to the point of this thread, but, most of the 'Noteable' improvements you're pointing out on WIndows 8, Linux has them like, light years ago and better btw with the exception of the graphics architecture where nvidia and ati still want to keep their stuff closed and keep screwing up big time drivers wise, but then, they do the same for windows so can't really blame the OS can you, for gaming mind you, as linux is used often for rendering for years already on major movie studios where not even their workstations are Windows.
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#35 - 2012-08-03 19:11:59 UTC
Alexandra Alt wrote:
Denidil wrote:
you're an idiot. GabeN (valve) is only butthurt because of Windows Store - suddenly COMPETITION. Not that those of us on steam are suddenly going to switch to using windows store

the new "Modern UI" skin is just a mild annoyance - all the technical details under the hood are pretty much improvements for gaming.



Oh look lol, the conspiracy theorists!! Goonswarm didn't want that system anyway, see what I did there ?


it is a conspiracy theory to accuse gaben of acting in a manner totally and completely consistent with human nature, and a plausible explanation for him shooting his mouth off and saying things the technical details don't support?

i think you need to learn the definition of the term "conspiracy theory"

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Taranius De Consolville
Doomheim
#36 - 2012-08-03 19:14:33 UTC
fenistil wrote:
Taranius De Consolville wrote:
Dude

I really don't know how to say this without sounding like a class A Jerk

LINUX is used for PROGRAMS mostly. Not gaming.

It is good for gaming, however, Windows no matter how shite the OS will always reign supreme on the market. Apple just behind.

Linux however will never gain the publicity to do this, simply because most people who online game

Wouldn't even know how to get to there APPDATA on there PC or know what CCCLEANER is.

If you choose to USE Linux, expect to encounter difficulties when gaming online for clients that were not, nor should be, coded for Linux based players who and i quote

*use Linux to make there own OS simply to be outside of the box and to show off to friends they are super nerds*

I think that should just about cover it.


LOL! This is your testimony how little you know about Linux!

Linky 1: http://www.geek.com/articles/games/steam-for-linux-will-launch-in-2012-2012065/
Linky 2: http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/linux/

Linux and gaming are getting close.... Also EVE runs with some smart thinking on Linux.


lol, dont be so nieve
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#37 - 2012-08-03 19:15:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Denidil
Alexandra Alt wrote:
Denidil wrote:

the new "Modern UI" skin is just a mild annoyance - all the technical details under the hood are pretty much improvements for gaming.


Features New in Win8

Noteable improvements for gamers:

Better Multimonitor support
Easier to read performance tab in task manager (more visual)
New software raid system build into windows (can use it for perf, and thin provision it)
USB3
Faster boot
Windows Display Driver Model 1.2 and DX Graphics Infrastructure 1.2: Performance improvements, stereoscopic 3D rendering, and video playback. with a better video driver multitasking model


[edit]
for the sake of full disclosure i must disclose that i work for one of the parties involved.


We can tell you do work for one of the parties, and (as usual) you don't do your homework well enough. Not that this post is going to add anything interesting to the point of this thread, but, most of the 'Noteable' improvements you're pointing out on WIndows 8, Linux has them like, light years ago and better btw with the exception of the graphics architecture where nvidia and ati still want to keep their stuff closed and keep screwing up big time drivers wise, but then, they do the same for windows so can't really blame the OS can you, for gaming mind you, as linux is used often for rendering for years already on major movie studios where not even their workstations are Windows.


Thanks for telling me things i already know, but in an immature and biased fashion. I try to make sure I never give our products undo praise, and i do not shy from giving them due criticism. or our organization.

Are we slower to implement a lot of thins than some other places? yes. However we have a large burden of reverse compatibility that we're afraid to break lest we get sued over it. With that comes technical debt that we have to invest time in paying down (aka fixing bugs in earlier versions, then putting in code shims to make sure certain programs that only work in the presence of those bugs still work).

There would be a lot of things we could implement a lot faster if we just ballsed up and pulled a Mac OS/X and dropped application compatibility between versions.

i used linux exclusively for a good portion of my college career.

and PS: I don't work in windows client. I fully expect the disaster that is the new UI skin to damn sales to a hell worse than Vistas.

[edit]
edited to be more informative.

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Taranius De Consolville
Doomheim
#38 - 2012-08-03 19:15:50 UTC
Alexandra Alt wrote:
Denidil wrote:

the new "Modern UI" skin is just a mild annoyance - all the technical details under the hood are pretty much improvements for gaming.


Features New in Win8

Noteable improvements for gamers:

Better Multimonitor support
Easier to read performance tab in task manager (more visual)
New software raid system build into windows (can use it for perf, and thin provision it)
USB3
Faster boot
Windows Display Driver Model 1.2 and DX Graphics Infrastructure 1.2: Performance improvements, stereoscopic 3D rendering, and video playback. with a better video driver multitasking model


[edit]
for the sake of full disclosure i must disclose that i work for one of the parties involved.


We can tell you do work for one of the parties, and (as usual) you don't do your homework well enough. Not that this post is going to add anything interesting to the point of this thread, but, most of the 'Noteable' improvements you're pointing out on WIndows 8, Linux has them like, light years ago and better btw with the exception of the graphics architecture where nvidia and ati still want to keep their stuff closed and keep screwing up big time drivers wise, but then, they do the same for windows so can't really blame the OS can you, for gaming mind you, as linux is used often for rendering for years already on major movie studios where not even their workstations are Windows.



No one said that linux is not widely used for PROGRAMMING and such. But as home pcs, it will NEVER been main stream because EACH user would have to CREATE there own desktop, which part of this are u not getting?
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#39 - 2012-08-03 19:20:06 UTC
Taranius De Consolville wrote:



No one said that linux is not widely used for PROGRAMMING and such. But as home pcs, it will NEVER been main stream because EACH user would have to CREATE there own desktop, which part of this are u not getting?


in my experience using linux as a desktop, and even gaming, machine was quite easy. However I am a high technical user. so things that would be show-stopping-nightmare for you're ever user were "open file in text editor, adjust one line, fixed"

and i used it as a HTPC for years (until i got a tuner card that only works on windows - it can tune my premium channels legally :D). Honestly Windows Media Center is technically superior to mythTV - and has a much higher Wife Acceptance Factor [aka doesn't break]

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Alexandra Alt
Doomheim
#40 - 2012-08-03 19:21:26 UTC
Vera Algaert wrote:

I used Linux exclusively for several years and always have a Linux installation lying around somewhere to play around with it.
Even ran EVE on Linux (after having to swap my graphics card due to Wine not liking my old one, :cripes:) for a few weeks earlier this year.


Heh, play around, I also have a car in the garage that I use to drive around, that doesn't make me a pilot :P

Quote:

EVE used to have a Linux client which used just the same compatibility-layer (a Wine fork) that the current Mac client still uses. CCP decided that there are not enough Linux users to warrant supporting the platform further and observed that open-source Wine did deliver better performance than Cedega anyways.


I know it did, there are several reasons why they won't go back to Linux at least for the time being, except a major amount of users switches to linux, but then, they won't switch to linux because there is no client for linux on EvE and pretty much the core mass of players won't stop playing even because of an OS choice, they'll rather bash the OS and rant and whine like babies instead of making a stand (except if Pay2Win is involved).

I would love to see a Linux client, a native client, not the crap wine/cedega pile of garbage, in the meanwhile, I do have virtualbox and a dedicated Windows7 on a laptop to do so. And yes I work on Linux, and I do so since 96, I witnessed all Linux ups and downs through this years, therefore I see the stand that Valve is making as a huge huge plus for Linux as a whole not gaming wise specifically.

Sarmatiko sarcastically downtalks the games being ported, the point is not the games themselves, it's the stand, creates the precedent and sets a standard, a turning point.