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New dev blog: CSM Meeting Minutes - Summer 2012

First post First post First post
Author
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#201 - 2012-08-03 16:05:50 UTC
Ogogov wrote:
Active local tanks aren't exactly FOTM.


Ever heard of an Ancillary Shield Booster? Cool

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#202 - 2012-08-03 16:10:25 UTC
Ogogov wrote:
Note to Ytterbium -

Upping the Brutix/Hyperion's active tanking bonus will do absolutely nothing to make people fly the ships more. Active local tanks aren't exactly FOTM.


indeed just dump the armor rep bonus and replace with an armour percentage bonus for those energy mods that increase armour by 15%...

that way galente can be fast armour tankers (removes the needs to fit a 1600)

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#203 - 2012-08-03 16:10:58 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Ogogov wrote:
Active local tanks aren't exactly FOTM.


Ever heard of an Ancillary Shield Booster? Cool


note to hans... hyperion has an active ARMOUR bounusLol

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#204 - 2012-08-03 16:11:47 UTC
but seriously make the mobile death stars the new Mother ship... keep the modular pos thing separate...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Carola Kessler
Lost Sisters Of New Eden
#205 - 2012-08-03 16:16:07 UTC
page 133

Moving over to Command ships, CCP Ytterbium addressed the concern of off grid links and simplystated “off grid boosting should not exist”, with much of the CSM nodding in agreement.

So removing from Off grid boost, what about the Boost from Capital industrials, like Orca or Rorqual? SHould they get removed as well? If yes......then alot of Rorqual pilots will get jobless within Eve, since i'm pretty sure no Rorqual pilot will park his Rorqual near the belt with Indu Core active for Max boost.

Sincerly

Carola KesslerSmile
Mag's
Azn Empire
#206 - 2012-08-03 16:19:42 UTC
So, just how many pirates are in the CSM?

If none, then who of you are backing the pirate corner?

This is not looking good.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#207 - 2012-08-03 16:24:20 UTC
Mag's wrote:
So, just how many pirates are in the CSM?

If none, then who of you are backing the pirate corner?

This is not looking good.


no pirates but i think alek is a merc... so half pirate...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Ryunosuke Kusanagi
#208 - 2012-08-03 16:29:04 UTC
I wrote a thing, it has many words:

A big thing with many words

The reason I chose to do it this way, is because there is a limit on the amount of characters that one can post on the forums, and there are many words in this (7 pages in fact)
BlankStare
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#209 - 2012-08-03 16:30:21 UTC
Posted my opinion of the Dust/EVE session on the Dust forums: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=232811#post232811

You need to be in the beta to see it but it basically boils down to:

  • The lack of decent grouping/social tools in Dust is worrying
  • That Corporations are not yet implemented and apparently still in the conceptual phase is very, very worrying
  • That the CSM hasn't pushed the inclusion of these tools [b]as a very high priority[b] is deeply worrying.


In EVE, the players and their interactions are the game. That in Dust such interaction is not going to be possible (it would seem) from release leaves me doubting whether Dust will ever be considered as being as important a part of New Eden's society as EVE is.

I have grave concerns that CCP is not serious about Dust being a success.
Magic Crisp
Amarrian Micro Devices
#210 - 2012-08-03 16:38:27 UTC
uhm, for the starbases part.

Please consider that many of us are using currently POSs for fast storage, because we don't have to dock up to mess with the cargo. this is very useful when we're emptying PI offices, or unloading ratting loot.

Also, the forcefield allows a staging area before warping in to anywhere, where we can bump each other.

SMAs can also hold various ships for different proposes, which doesn't require docking, but allows us fast reshipping within the system.

Please consider these.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#211 - 2012-08-03 16:40:38 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Mag's wrote:
So, just how many pirates are in the CSM?

If none, then who of you are backing the pirate corner?

This is not looking good.


no pirates but i think alek is a merc... so half pirate...
Ahh yes, the guy that thought it would be great and worried about can flippers. Roll

Like I said, it's not looking good.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
#212 - 2012-08-03 16:46:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Fon Revedhort
Ms Michigan wrote:
Yeep wrote:
Fon Revedhort wrote:

Quote:
>> Hot-drops are too easy - I think we're reaching a place where there's a broad consensus on this being not a cool outcome for everyone except the guy jumping in.

Posted - 2011.05.12 16:01:00

So?..


As someone who was on both sides of a capital hot drop back when the capacitor penalty from jumping in actually meant something I'd be sad to see the element of suprise disappear. However I would agree that the pentalties for the aggressor need to be adjusted given the availability of T2 and the size of capital fleets.


This is my whole thought as well. I have thought for a long time the problem isn't low sec gate camps so much as it is that fights are so short. Yeep references T2 and cap fleets. These are perfect examples to me of DPS being such that you just don't live long in a fight. All these ideas of escalating gate guns seem to me to be band-aids on DPS and the time fights last.

Maybe there is a way to buff defense ACCROSS THE BOARD (or NERF DPS) so that fights just LAST LONGER IN GENERAL in every ship class. To me. PVP in EVE is getting to the point where (and is problematic BECAUSE) fights just go so damn fast. It is like playing a game of chess in 20 seconds. Whatever happened to the game taking a little bit longer and the tension building and giving people time to do more than die?

What the hell? Eve is already too overtanked, ships take a crapload of time to actually pop. It takes Mach well over a minute to kill a single fugly Drake. How is that short?

Nerfing DPS or boosting tank even more is one of the most detrimental things one can ever come up with.

It's extremely stupid to think prolonged fights would also give more 'tension'. I've been playing since late '05 where we had like 1/3 of current EHP and guess what? - the game was much better in terms of DPS/tank balance.

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.

Lyron-Baktos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#213 - 2012-08-03 16:48:15 UTC
still wanting a dev blog with a lot more info from the Art team. Also can't wait to see what else is done to the Amarr

Regarding the Amarr gold and how it was not supposed to be that shiny, did you not think that people would get use to it after it being that way for years? Pretty stupid to have something be wrong for so many years and then finally change it after people have grown to love it but I guess that's par for the course for CCP
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#214 - 2012-08-03 16:55:01 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:


Still I can't shake the nagging feeling that whats in the pipeline for winter is not actually that much or particularly exciting. Seleene said it best in the opening section about waiting for the "money shot". I didn't really see it.

Perhaps the starbase feature will be absolutely incredible and change a whole lot of gameplay at various levels of eve and make it all worth while. Perhaps. But after seeing "war" trumpeted as the centerpiece for Inferno only to be represented by increased dec fees and a nerfed ally system I'm a bit doubtful.




This is going to be a criticism echoed by many as we go into Winter. But let's take a look back - this new direction CCP's gone in terms of development practice is a direct response to the "Jesus feature" era - where the "new shiny" trumped the less sexy iterations that were badly needed for so many features. Players demanded CCP focus on the core game, and support their already-released content, instead of always chasing the next best thing.

Its time to allow them to do just that. I for one am perfectly happy with the winter agenda - its finishing the other half of Inferno, essentially. Hell, I'd be fine with them calling it Inferno 2.0, and not even bothering with the fanfare of a brand new title. The point is, you're absolutely right - we could use more work on the war dec system, Faction Warfare CERTAINLY needs to have its lingering core weaknesses adressed, and features such as player-to-player contracts could have PROFOUND impacts on 0.0 alliance business relationships, and introduce a real mercenary marketplace, complete with a functioning bounty hunting system. (in fact, player to player contracts is one of the must underrated features that I believe could unlock immense amounts of emergent gameplay with even just a few concrete contract styles.)

I've been following player feedback temperatures closely for over a year now, and I vividly remember the bittervet outcries that CCP was catering to new players, chasing shiny avatars, spending too much time on Dust, and ignoring their core base.

Thankfully, they listened. I think we're kidding ourselves to think that something like Faction Warfare, or 0.0 sovereignty, or new POS's, could EVER be deployed intact within a single expansion. Many have argued that CCP should commit a team to a feature permanently once deployed, so that groups like the Incursion community gets the long-term supported needed to thrive. While i think this is unrealistic for a number of reason, at least doubling up a pair of expansions on a single feature set (war themed, in 2012's case) is a refreshing compromise.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#215 - 2012-08-03 17:09:06 UTC
Markus Reese wrote:
Reading this really surprized me, Comments as follows. Some were well on the ball, but the live events topic got to me, as I keep my experience from the sansha events as the highpoint of my time in eve.

Most importantly, I think can get into where they were talking about live events and just sat talking about the caravans. The most success for live events were the sansha incursions and barely touched on with more people showing up for them than any fleet battle ever to occur in null security. Largest fleet fight was a bit over 2000, but largest live event was when kuvakei attacked yulai and the response to it was alot larger and was pretty much open to all players.


You have to understand, the Incursions took place before I was at the company. I am in no position to comment on them in any official capacity. The caravans were something I was personally involved with and responsible for. We talked a lot about lore events (remember the 3 kinds - CCP events, Lore events, Player Run events) but the purpose of the conversation wasn't to reminisce, it was to gauge response to make future planning easier.

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath

DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#216 - 2012-08-03 17:13:46 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
CSM minutes wrote:


Two step pointed out that a big barrier for new players was that most of the Incursion organizing was done through chat channels and not as much by corps and alliances, which made it harder for people to know where to go to join the better Incursion groups.



Interesting theory Two Step but your hypothesis falls flat in that the HI SEC Incursions which utilize chats have survived the Escalation NERF where the lo/NULL Incursions which relied on corps/alliances have absolutely died. The barriers to entry for the Incursion chats are alot less an obstacle ( what chat asks for API verification? ) even though there is no mechanic for advertising them in Eve.
I think what you see as a barrier to entry actually was viewed as the opposite to many fed up with corp/alliance politics ( not that there is any lack of politicking in the Incursion communities unfortunely but it is easier to escape/ignore & contine to be part of the community )

While for the most part HI sec Incursion community coalesed into 'chat communities' because otherwise it was to easy to be griefed by 1 man corps & griefers due to war dec aggro spreading amongst all the logi they grew into a coheriant, vibrant, and to my knowledge fairly unique new type of community not seen in Eve before which isn't corp or alliance based so I suspect an anathema to those not living in NULL/ or WH's.
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#217 - 2012-08-03 17:15:17 UTC
Vera Algaert wrote:

Live events was one of those meetings of no consequence - CCP Goliath thinks Live Events are cool, the CSM thinks Live Events are cool but nobody has any illusion that CCP will actually divert resources to Live Events in the foreseeable future, so they will continue being a spare-time hobby of CCP employees.

The only reason that session did probably make it on the agenda at all was as a pointer to CCP that players would like to see more resources assigned to Live Events (and that Goliath has the CSM behind him for whatever that may be worth), not to have an actual discussion on Live Events (what is there to discuss when all you can do is nod at each other and say "yeah, that would be really cool, if only we could actually do it....").


You need to cheer up buddy! All your posts in this thread have been so negative!

Live Events meeting was far from a meeting of no consequence. Coming up with, advertising and running live events is pretty challenging, but to be honest I don't think it would be a worthwhile full time position to create in the company. Firstly it requires input and effort from too many parties for it to be just one person - you need content to approve and create story arcs or lore references, you need programmers and authorers to make stuff for you, you need participants sometimes numbering over 100, etc. CCP gives us plenty of support and expects nothing but the best in terms of results from these events, but end of the day, our contracted jobs take priority which is why progress is probably slower than everyone would like. That's not to say that nothing is happening or will happen, which is what you're indicating here. I and others love doing events with players and if we use some of our spare time to do it, I say that's a good thing!

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath

Highauger's animated corpse
Jove Observation And Neutrality Negotiations Act
#218 - 2012-08-03 17:25:24 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
Vera Algaert wrote:

Live events was one of those meetings of no consequence - CCP Goliath thinks Live Events are cool, the CSM thinks Live Events are cool but nobody has any illusion that CCP will actually divert resources to Live Events in the foreseeable future, so they will continue being a spare-time hobby of CCP employees.

The only reason that session did probably make it on the agenda at all was as a pointer to CCP that players would like to see more resources assigned to Live Events (and that Goliath has the CSM behind him for whatever that may be worth), not to have an actual discussion on Live Events (what is there to discuss when all you can do is nod at each other and say "yeah, that would be really cool, if only we could actually do it....").


You need to cheer up buddy! All your posts in this thread have been so negative!

Live Events meeting was far from a meeting of no consequence. Coming up with, advertising and running live events is pretty challenging, but to be honest I don't think it would be a worthwhile full time position to create in the company. Firstly it requires input and effort from too many parties for it to be just one person - you need content to approve and create story arcs or lore references, you need programmers and authorers to make stuff for you, you need participants sometimes numbering over 100, etc. CCP gives us plenty of support and expects nothing but the best in terms of results from these events, but end of the day, our contracted jobs take priority which is why progress is probably slower than everyone would like. That's not to say that nothing is happening or will happen, which is what you're indicating here. I and others love doing events with players and if we use some of our spare time to do it, I say that's a good thing!


this, good work, keep it up
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
#219 - 2012-08-03 17:31:04 UTC
mini brutalis wrote:
The state of EvE

Page 85
"Ytterbium wanted to hear some reasons why null sec was viewed as so dead."

I can say it pretty short: There is nothing at stake and there is nothing to hunt.
It is 50 people sitting on a Titan bridge with a bait ship running around.

Well said!

I wonder why CCP is absolutely silent when it comes to such an important issue.

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.

Lili Lu
#220 - 2012-08-03 17:44:29 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Ogogov wrote:
Active local tanks aren't exactly FOTM.


Ever heard of an Ancillary Shield Booster? Cool

But he was talking about active armor tanking and upping the boost amount on a brutix from 7.5 to 10% per level. And he is right it will do absolutely nothing for active armor tanking.

Now if they reduced the fitting costs of reppers it might enable more dual repper setups both of which getting the boost. Or if there was an ancilliary armor repairer in the game that was as op as the asb then yeah that bonus would do something. But as it stands upping the armor repair bonus by 2.5% per level will not make it worth using and frankly people will continue to put thin shield buffers and all gank in the lows on those ships. The only place the 10% armor bonus matters is fw plexing with an incursus. For pvp the increased bonus won't matter.