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is it worth training for the Amarr Tech II Zealot?

Author
Sowilla
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2011-10-11 02:16:29 UTC
I'd like to get the Amarr cruiser Tech II Zealot but it has a lot of skill requirements. Is it worth it, or should I go with the Navy Faction version? (I currently have the regular "Omen" version in dry dock).

Comments? Thanks!

-=<>=-

Kitty McKitty
In Praise Of Shadows
#2 - 2011-10-11 02:22:40 UTC
It's the best Zealot out there.

More seriously, it helps to know what you expect to be doing with it. It's a long range / low sig fleet ship and not much use solo or for PVE unless you like using odd ships for the job.

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Goose99
#3 - 2011-10-11 02:29:14 UTC
There's a huge gap between between Zealot and Omen, if that's what you meant.
Sowilla
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2011-10-11 02:34:40 UTC
Kitty McKitty wrote:
It's the best Zealot out there.

More seriously, it helps to know what you expect to be doing with it. It's a long range / low sig fleet ship and not much use solo or for PVE unless you like using odd ships for the job.

I mainly do PvE. I can already get the Navy Faction Omen so I might just stick with that when I start doing higher level missions...

-=<>=-

Sowilla
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2011-10-11 02:35:35 UTC
Goose99 wrote:
There's a huge gap between between Zealot and Omen, if that's what you meant.

Yeah I noticed that and by the time I have all the skills to be able to fly it, I could afford something else..... Big smile

-=<>=-

Kitty McKitty
In Praise Of Shadows
#6 - 2011-10-11 02:36:27 UTC
If you intend to stick with Amarr for solo PVE and don't want a battleship you are better off aiming for a Legion to be honest.

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Sowilla
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2011-10-11 02:41:38 UTC
Cool, I'll check it out. Honestly, I'm still doing level 1 missions! hehehe I do have an Omen put up right now and am using a faction Amarr frigate ATM.

-=<>=-

Kitty McKitty
In Praise Of Shadows
#8 - 2011-10-11 02:53:09 UTC
I can't really help much with PVE fits but there's plenty of info out there. The only thing I can say in terms of PVE fitting philosophy is to start off with as good a tank as you can manage, then with experience you can drop that down and refit to do more damage till you get a balance.

This way you lose less ships, even if it's a bit slower running missions.

Amarr aren't generally regarded as very good for PVE but once you get some skills behind you they are just fine really. The main limitation is they tend only to do Em damage (the laser ships anyway). HAM legion or even a Sacrilege won't have this problem.

Haviing your portrait painted here helps INTAKI Disabled Children ♥

Headerman
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2011-10-11 05:37:52 UTC
Hey dood, the Zealot is THE best heavy assault ship in the game, only slightly ahead of the Vaga 9which is also very good). The Navy Omen is also awesome to use, has extra PG and CPU like every other navy version.

They are best used in small/large gangs of similar ships, and not much use in PVE due to no defensive bonus.

Best ships for Amarr for L2's would be the Arbitrator due to it's great drone damage bonus. So easy to fit lots of tank and lots of cap and let the drones kill everything.

Another big plus with the Arbitrator is its very low cost

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Mavnas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2011-10-11 05:58:10 UTC
Sowilla wrote:
Cool, I'll check it out. Honestly, I'm still doing level 1 missions! hehehe I do have an Omen put up right now and am using a faction Amarr frigate ATM.


If you're careful the Slicer can do all level 2s, 3s, and some 4s, but it's slow. The Omen Navy Issue is annoyingly fragile in comparison because it's so much easier to hit.

Arbitrator is very skill intensive for what it does. I think everyone forgets that Drone Interfacing takes weeks to train to V, and drones kind of suck without it.
kasai zenpachi
Circle Of Chaos
#11 - 2011-10-11 06:03:14 UTC
I love the zealot but its only good for pvp, armor hac's fleet of zealots are the best low sig and nice buff and crazy dps. If u r serious about pve for isk then train for a drake, you can solo l4 and is cheap ship then work on getting a tengu
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#12 - 2011-10-11 06:14:18 UTC
Mavnas wrote:
Arbitrator is very skill intensive for what it does. I think everyone forgets that Drone Interfacing takes weeks to train to V, and drones kind of suck without it.


About 25 days from level 1 to level 5. Not the longest train in the world but a killer if you're not used to it. You CAN get away with just level 4 though (especially if you plan to stick to sub-caps). Blink


@Sowilla...

The Zealot is a T2 ship... which means it is a "specialty" ship. Look over the info on it and you'll notice that it has a few things going for it...

- enough CPU/Powergrid to comfortably fit the biggest cruiser-sized pulse lasers (allowing you to hit harder)...
- bonuses to laser range and rate of fire (shoot farther and faster)...
- higher resistances in kinetic and explosive damage (means you need less mods to tank well)...
- it's still a cruiser and thus quite mobile (you can sorta speed tank)

However, the Zealot has a few bad qualities going for it...

- has no drone bay ( which means it has limited point defense against small ships)
- has very few mid slots (limited utility abilities)
- not very "flexible" (good at engaging stuff at range, sucks when engaging up close)
- skill and ISK intensive.

tl;dr... you CAN use a Zealot for PvE... but it isn't recommended due the Zealot's relative inflexibility at dealing with different (and sometimes emergent) situations.

The Navy Omen... euh... it's a slightly better version of what the regular Omen SHOULD be. And compared to the Zealot, it's vastly more flexible (at the cost of not being able to hit out as far and fast).
Lili Lu
#13 - 2011-10-11 17:18:28 UTC
Zealot is a pvp ship.

Best advice, Arbitrator for level 2, Harbinger for level 3, Whatever Amarr BS floats your boat for level 4. Caveat being that is against blood raider and sansha rats. Guristas and Angels in particular will laugh when you tickle them with your mighty lazors.
Sowilla
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2011-10-11 18:14:57 UTC
Headerman wrote:
Hey dood, the Zealot is THE best heavy assault ship in the game, only slightly ahead of the Vaga 9which is also very good). The Navy Omen is also awesome to use, has extra PG and CPU like every other navy version.

They are best used in small/large gangs of similar ships, and not much use in PVE due to no defensive bonus.

Best ships for Amarr for L2's would be the Arbitrator due to it's great drone damage bonus. So easy to fit lots of tank and lots of cap and let the drones kill everything.

Another big plus with the Arbitrator is its very low cost

Is that a cruiser? It looks like it only has 2 turret slots and lower powergrid then my Omen. I've never used drones, are they good?

-=<>=-

Sowilla
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2011-10-11 18:16:46 UTC
Kitty McKitty wrote:
I can't really help much with PVE fits but there's plenty of info out there. The only thing I can say in terms of PVE fitting philosophy is to start off with as good a tank as you can manage, then with experience you can drop that down and refit to do more damage till you get a balance.

This way you lose less ships, even if it's a bit slower running missions.

Amarr aren't generally regarded as very good for PVE but once you get some skills behind you they are just fine really. The main limitation is they tend only to do Em damage (the laser ships anyway). HAM legion or even a Sacrilege won't have this problem.

I like Amarr ships but yeah I see what you are saying. On my frigate I think it has like 125% damage increase for my pulse lasers lol

-=<>=-

Sowilla
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2011-10-11 18:21:21 UTC
Mavnas wrote:
Sowilla wrote:
Cool, I'll check it out. Honestly, I'm still doing level 1 missions! hehehe I do have an Omen put up right now and am using a faction Amarr frigate ATM.


If you're careful the Slicer can do all level 2s, 3s, and some 4s, but it's slow. The Omen Navy Issue is annoyingly fragile in comparison because it's so much easier to hit.

Arbitrator is very skill intensive for what it does. I think everyone forgets that Drone Interfacing takes weeks to train to V, and drones kind of suck without it.

Yeah I'm loving the Slicer! I chewed thru at least 20 pirates, taking only minimal damage to my shields! :)

-=<>=-

Sowilla
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2011-10-11 18:22:04 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:

@Sowilla...

The Zealot is a T2 ship... which means it is a "specialty" ship. Look over the info on it and you'll notice that it has a few things going for it...

- enough CPU/Powergrid to comfortably fit the biggest cruiser-sized pulse lasers (allowing you to hit harder)...
- bonuses to laser range and rate of fire (shoot farther and faster)...
- higher resistances in kinetic and explosive damage (means you need less mods to tank well)...
- it's still a cruiser and thus quite mobile (you can sorta speed tank)

However, the Zealot has a few bad qualities going for it...

- has no drone bay ( which means it has limited point defense against small ships)
- has very few mid slots (limited utility abilities)
- not very "flexible" (good at engaging stuff at range, sucks when engaging up close)
- skill and ISK intensive.

tl;dr... you CAN use a Zealot for PvE... but it isn't recommended due the Zealot's relative inflexibility at dealing with different (and sometimes emergent) situations.

The Navy Omen... euh... it's a slightly better version of what the regular Omen SHOULD be. And compared to the Zealot, it's vastly more flexible (at the cost of not being able to hit out as far and fast).

Cool, thanks for the info!

-=<>=-

Mavnas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2011-10-11 22:46:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Mavnas
I used to joke that my Slicer was over-tanked for L4s, because really once I popped all the small ships, I could go out and replace my entire tank with heat sinks and not have to worry about it.

edit: big problem of course is that if you get webbed, you might die. I got pretty good at orbitting webbers at 15km and popping them before they did their thing, but that take some manual flying as well when there more than 2. So it's definitely not safe in all missions. And anything not weak to EM/Therm is just too much of a pain with small guns.

edit 2: I would definitely use a Slicer over an Arbi for level 2s though.
Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
#19 - 2011-10-11 23:23:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Jennifer Starling
Lili Lu wrote:
Zealot is a pvp ship.

Best advice, Arbitrator for level 2, Harbinger for level 3, Whatever Amarr BS floats your boat for level 4. Caveat being that is against blood raider and sansha rats. Guristas and Angels in particular will laugh when you tickle them with your mighty lazors.

This.

Zealots are pretty ships but they don't have drones so you're very vulnerable to being helplessly webbed while your pulses can't track the NPC spider drones or other webbers. Don't do this to yourself.
For missions, Navy Omens are far more versatile and can deal very decent damage.

L2: Arbitrator, Harbinger, Retribution, Navy Omen, Slicer
L3: Harbinger, (Retribution), Navy Omen
Sowilla
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2011-10-12 00:34:40 UTC
Thank you both for the replies! The Navy Omen is starting to sound like a good ship so I think I'll go with that after my Slicer outlives its usefulness. :)

-=<>=-

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