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Smart bomb area on large ships
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Cid Tazer
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-08-03 13:58:53 UTC
I don't have capital ships so I cannot test this myself, but is the volume covered by smart bombs on capital ships larger than the same class of smartbomb on subcap ships?

Is this working properly?

Should smart bombs cover the same area regardless of the hull they are on?
Zicon Shak'ra
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-08-03 14:04:24 UTC
If smartbombs on capital ships hit the same area as a battleship, they would never reach outside the hull of the ship.

/thread

Wormholes are cool, m'kay?
Cid Tazer
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2012-08-03 14:10:38 UTC
Zicon Shak'ra wrote:
If smartbombs on capital ships hit the same area as a battleship, they would never reach outside the hull of the ship.

/thread


So we're ok with 15KM smartbombs having a blast area of > 15KM cubed? I don't know of any other module that isn't percent based that scales like that (i.e. large shield extender, cap recharger). (I may have missed some)
Jiska Ensa
Estrale Frontiers
#4 - 2012-08-03 14:25:02 UTC
Um I don't think you're on the same page as everyone else. Large shield extenders do not affect anything beyond the attributes of the ship it's mounted on. Smartbombs do. They can not be compared as they are entirely different module types.

Since you can not approach a ship closer than 0 metres (an ellipsoid around the hull being the "ship") a smartbomb does not intrinsically affect a larger volume on a larger ship. The only time it becomes an issue is when a capital ship vs a battleship are being used for smartbombing gate camps: You have a higher chance of getting caught in the "volume" than you would on a smaller ship. For non-warpy stuff, it doesn't matter because you're limited to how close to the ship you can get, so it's a linear thing, not cubic.

Furthermore, the primary use of smartbombs on capital ships is anti-fighter/anti-bomber point defense. Fighters orbit their target at the same linear range regardless of the size of the target (look at fighters attacking stations to see this clearly) If you were to adjust smartbombs to damage the same volume as on a battleship, they'd barely reach a few hundred metres beyond the hull. This would eliminte them from this critical role in capital warfare.

tl;dr smartbombs are fine, working as intended.
Cid Tazer
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2012-08-03 14:40:04 UTC
Jiska Ensa wrote:
Um I don't think you're on the same page as everyone else. Large shield extenders do not affect anything beyond the attributes of the ship it's mounted on. Smartbombs do. They can not be compared as they are entirely different module types.

Since you can not approach a ship closer than 0 metres (an ellipsoid around the hull being the "ship") a smartbomb does not intrinsically affect a larger volume on a larger ship. The only time it becomes an issue is when a capital ship vs a battleship are being used for smartbombing gate camps: You have a higher chance of getting caught in the "volume" than you would on a smaller ship. For non-warpy stuff, it doesn't matter because you're limited to how close to the ship you can get, so it's a linear thing, not cubic.

Furthermore, the primary use of smartbombs on capital ships is anti-fighter/anti-bomber point defense. Fighters orbit their target at the same linear range regardless of the size of the target (look at fighters attacking stations to see this clearly) If you were to adjust smartbombs to damage the same volume as on a battleship, they'd barely reach a few hundred metres beyond the hull. This would eliminte them from this critical role in capital warfare.

tl;dr smartbombs are fine, working as intended.


I disagree that it is as designed.

If my physics bubble ellipsoid is 800m, then my radius including smartbomb is 15800m which gives an area of 16521900000000 M3.

If my physics bubble ellipsoid is 3000m, then my radium including smartbomb is 18000m which gives an area of 24429000000000 M3 which is not insignificant.

Secondly are smartbombs supposed to be used on capital ships for point defense when they can also be fit on subcaps? Just because that's what they are used for now, doesn't mean that that is the intended use.

Tarunik Raqalth'Qui
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2012-08-03 15:38:47 UTC
Cid Tazer wrote:
Jiska Ensa wrote:
Um I don't think you're on the same page as everyone else. Large shield extenders do not affect anything beyond the attributes of the ship it's mounted on. Smartbombs do. They can not be compared as they are entirely different module types.

Since you can not approach a ship closer than 0 metres (an ellipsoid around the hull being the "ship") a smartbomb does not intrinsically affect a larger volume on a larger ship. The only time it becomes an issue is when a capital ship vs a battleship are being used for smartbombing gate camps: You have a higher chance of getting caught in the "volume" than you would on a smaller ship. For non-warpy stuff, it doesn't matter because you're limited to how close to the ship you can get, so it's a linear thing, not cubic.

Furthermore, the primary use of smartbombs on capital ships is anti-fighter/anti-bomber point defense. Fighters orbit their target at the same linear range regardless of the size of the target (look at fighters attacking stations to see this clearly) If you were to adjust smartbombs to damage the same volume as on a battleship, they'd barely reach a few hundred metres beyond the hull. This would eliminte them from this critical role in capital warfare.

tl;dr smartbombs are fine, working as intended.


I disagree that it is as designed.

If my physics bubble ellipsoid is 800m, then my radius including smartbomb is 15800m which gives an area of 16521900000000 M3.

If my physics bubble ellipsoid is 3000m, then my radium including smartbomb is 18000m which gives an area of 24429000000000 M3 which is not insignificant.

Secondly are smartbombs supposed to be used on capital ships for point defense when they can also be fit on subcaps? Just because that's what they are used for now, doesn't mean that that is the intended use.


They are the "large ship needs to get rid of a ton of nearby little things at once" module. :) Doesn't matter if it's a mission BS being swarmed by Rogue Drones or a carrier beating back a fighter attack.
Cid Tazer
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2012-08-03 15:40:20 UTC
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui wrote:
Cid Tazer wrote:
Jiska Ensa wrote:
Um I don't think you're on the same page as everyone else. Large shield extenders do not affect anything beyond the attributes of the ship it's mounted on. Smartbombs do. They can not be compared as they are entirely different module types.

Since you can not approach a ship closer than 0 metres (an ellipsoid around the hull being the "ship") a smartbomb does not intrinsically affect a larger volume on a larger ship. The only time it becomes an issue is when a capital ship vs a battleship are being used for smartbombing gate camps: You have a higher chance of getting caught in the "volume" than you would on a smaller ship. For non-warpy stuff, it doesn't matter because you're limited to how close to the ship you can get, so it's a linear thing, not cubic.

Furthermore, the primary use of smartbombs on capital ships is anti-fighter/anti-bomber point defense. Fighters orbit their target at the same linear range regardless of the size of the target (look at fighters attacking stations to see this clearly) If you were to adjust smartbombs to damage the same volume as on a battleship, they'd barely reach a few hundred metres beyond the hull. This would eliminte them from this critical role in capital warfare.

tl;dr smartbombs are fine, working as intended.


I disagree that it is as designed.

If my physics bubble ellipsoid is 800m, then my radius including smartbomb is 15800m which gives an area of 16521900000000 M3.

If my physics bubble ellipsoid is 3000m, then my radium including smartbomb is 18000m which gives an area of 24429000000000 M3 which is not insignificant.

Secondly are smartbombs supposed to be used on capital ships for point defense when they can also be fit on subcaps? Just because that's what they are used for now, doesn't mean that that is the intended use.


They are the "large ship needs to get rid of a ton of nearby little things at once" module. :) Doesn't matter if it's a mission BS being swarmed by Rogue Drones or a carrier beating back a fighter attack.


Or a swarm of subcaps trying to kill it.
Astald Ohtar
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2012-08-03 15:57:51 UTC
5km from the hull , since the hull is large the area of effect is larger . but it is still 5km from the hull .
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2012-08-03 19:42:06 UTC
Cid Tazer wrote:
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui wrote:
Cid Tazer wrote:
Jiska Ensa wrote:
Um I don't think you're on the same page as everyone else. Large shield extenders do not affect anything beyond the attributes of the ship it's mounted on. Smartbombs do. They can not be compared as they are entirely different module types.

Since you can not approach a ship closer than 0 metres (an ellipsoid around the hull being the "ship") a smartbomb does not intrinsically affect a larger volume on a larger ship. The only time it becomes an issue is when a capital ship vs a battleship are being used for smartbombing gate camps: You have a higher chance of getting caught in the "volume" than you would on a smaller ship. For non-warpy stuff, it doesn't matter because you're limited to how close to the ship you can get, so it's a linear thing, not cubic.

Furthermore, the primary use of smartbombs on capital ships is anti-fighter/anti-bomber point defense. Fighters orbit their target at the same linear range regardless of the size of the target (look at fighters attacking stations to see this clearly) If you were to adjust smartbombs to damage the same volume as on a battleship, they'd barely reach a few hundred metres beyond the hull. This would eliminte them from this critical role in capital warfare.

tl;dr smartbombs are fine, working as intended.


I disagree that it is as designed.

If my physics bubble ellipsoid is 800m, then my radius including smartbomb is 15800m which gives an area of 16521900000000 M3.

If my physics bubble ellipsoid is 3000m, then my radium including smartbomb is 18000m which gives an area of 24429000000000 M3 which is not insignificant.

Secondly are smartbombs supposed to be used on capital ships for point defense when they can also be fit on subcaps? Just because that's what they are used for now, doesn't mean that that is the intended use.


They are the "large ship needs to get rid of a ton of nearby little things at once" module. :) Doesn't matter if it's a mission BS being swarmed by Rogue Drones or a carrier beating back a fighter attack.


Or a swarm of subcaps trying to kill it.

Swarm of T1 frigs? Most likely. Most of the subcaps that typically attack carriers? They'll shrug off smartbombs. (They can be a hazard for hero tacklers though...:)
Bill Serkoff2
Tachyon Technology
#10 - 2012-08-03 20:14:06 UTC
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui wrote:

Swarm of T1 frigs? Most likely. Most of the subcaps that typically attack carriers? They'll shrug off smartbombs. (They can be a hazard for hero tacklers though...:)

Last I checked, a rack full of 500 damage isn't somethin' to sniff at, even for a battleship.

"The Cyclone and the Drake are two ships which will basically never be good for shield tanking, primarily because they have almost no lowslots in addition to shield tanking bonuses. " -Iam Widdershins
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2012-08-03 22:08:17 UTC
I guess the game is pretty much finished when things like this pop up ... OP is valiantly trying to fight invisible windmills that dont even exist.

When there aint problems ... make problems out of thin air eh ?

Nothing wrong with smartbombs at all.
steave435
Perkone
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-08-06 01:12:25 UTC
Bill Serkoff2 wrote:
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui wrote:

Swarm of T1 frigs? Most likely. Most of the subcaps that typically attack carriers? They'll shrug off smartbombs. (They can be a hazard for hero tacklers though...:)

Last I checked, a rack full of 500 damage isn't somethin' to sniff at, even for a battleship.

If you can't tank it, move out of the smartbomb range. Ships large enough to have a significantly larger AoE (pretty much just titans, and to a much smaller extent other capitals) are slow enough that controlling range is no problem at all. Additionally. the larger the ship is, the more damage/rep could have been fitted in that slot instead of the smartbomb, so while you gain a larger AoE, you also give up more since the damage done doesn't scale up.
Zicon Shak'ra
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-08-07 12:02:17 UTC
The best smartbomb in the game (Tobias' Modified Large Proton Smartbomb) deals 45.5 DPS, and sucks capacitor like a madman. Highly insignificant. Also, OP, smartbombs are designed such that they reach a certain distance from the hull. If you prefer to think of it this way, there are "projectors" that deal damage within a set range on the hull of your ship. A capital simply has more of these "projectors". It's not "broken". They are a capital ship's only way to fend off smaller craft and drones, without using its own drones. Yes, it fills more volume, whoopdy-doo. However, it's not as though if you hit "orbit at 20km" on a smart-bombing BS and a smart-bombing capital, it'll make a difference. Either way, you will be out of range. This is a phenomenally pointless thread.

Wormholes are cool, m'kay?
ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2012-08-07 12:12:27 UTC
Op thinks our ships are points in space and have no mass of theyre own...

No Worries