These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Warfare & Tactics

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

Thanks to Hans and Elise - Fw csm minutes
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#1 - 2012-08-02 19:06:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
Nice work.

here they are:

http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=73092


One question:
Did two step want to end size restrictions on plexes, or am I reading that wrong?

2 comments:
1) There are actually 4 tiers of plexes. Minor, medium, major with gate, and unrestricted majors.

2) "CCP Ytterbium explained that this is by design, LP wasn’t paid for defensive plexing because they don’t want to encourage farming of LP’s in your own space, where you could sit and just let the attackers come at you while you profit.
CCP Ytterbium: “If you find yourself winning too much, this is the consequence for it.”"

Nice job ccp!

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Vordak Kallager
Descendance.
GoonSwarm.
#2 - 2012-08-02 19:17:03 UTC
This section, and all of the minutes, are quite detailed and I'm impressed. Good job CSM7.

Sa souvraya niende misain ye.
Kuehnelt
Devoid Privateering
#3 - 2012-08-02 19:50:08 UTC
Yeah, FW is fine. Because: CCP Soundwave has charts that show that Amarr are out-fighting the Minmatar (in a time period where Amarr sov sank like a stone), and because CCP Ytterbium believes that "more targets for older players" is incentive enough for any losing faction (and how does he think that incentive translates to the losing faction ever ceasing to be a losing faction?) Although it's fun to read Hans accept a position that he jeered at, pre-Inferno (that FW missions should not take place in your own space), he had nothing at all to say about the warzone control system, in which having 11 systems is no better than having 0 systems, in which fighting to improve your situation requires continuous acts of self-harm, in which making T5 income with enemy alts while having no space is clearly economically preferable to a back-and-forth 'war' over T3. "Warzone control" actually appears several times in the minutes, but nobody talks about the mechanism itself, even though it's the single source of all the perversity in post-Inferno FW.

Apart from that, there's a lot of care for lowsec and NPC 0.0 in the minutes, not just in the context of FW. And there's this from CCP Soundwave: "In general, the more people I see in low sec, regardless of what they do, is healthy." And I really like his idea of a third 'everybody else in lowsec' faction.

But FW is fine. Look forward to the UI improvements.
Vordak Kallager
Descendance.
GoonSwarm.
#4 - 2012-08-02 19:53:13 UTC
Kuehnelt wrote:
Yeah, FW is fine. Because: CCP Soundwave has charts that show that Amarr are out-fighting the Minmatar (in a time period where Amarr sov sank like a stone), and because CCP Ytterbium believes that "more targets for older players" is incentive enough for any losing faction (and how does he think that incentive translates to the losing faction ever ceasing to be a losing faction?) Although it's fun to read Hans accept a position that he jeered at, pre-Inferno (that FW missions should not take place in your own space), he had nothing at all to say about the warzone control system, in which having 11 systems is no better than having 0 systems, in which fighting to improve your situation requires continuous acts of self-harm, in which making T5 income with enemy alts while having no space is clearly economically preferable to a back-and-forth 'war' over T3. "Warzone control" actually appears several times in the minutes, but nobody talks about the mechanism itself, even though it's the single source of all the perversity in post-Inferno FW.

Apart from that, there's a lot of care for lowsec and NPC 0.0 in the minutes, not just in the context of FW. And there's this from CCP Soundwave: "In general, the more people I see in low sec, regardless of what they do, is healthy." And I really like his idea of a third 'everybody else in lowsec' faction.

But FW is fine. Look forward to the UI improvements.


You need to keep in mind the Summit took place only very shortly after Inferno was implemented.
Hans always thought the idea that missions spawning in friendly territory was dumb.

Sa souvraya niende misain ye.
Kuehnelt
Devoid Privateering
#5 - 2012-08-02 19:59:04 UTC
Vordak Kallager wrote:
Hans always thought the idea that missions spawning in friendly territory was dumb.


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1332715#post1332715
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade
Ghost Legion.
#6 - 2012-08-02 20:02:11 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Nice work.

2) "CCP Ytterbium explained that this is by design, LP wasn’t paid for defensive plexing because they don’t want to encourage farming of LP’s in your own space, where you could sit and just let the attackers come at you while you profit.
CCP Ytterbium: “If you find yourself winning too much, this is the consequence for it.”"


Because no one expolited the 0 standing requirements CCP added to farm both sides of the Warzone at all....RollRoll.

The generally lack of understanding of how the new FW system is being used by CCP in those minutes which i am aware are some months old, remain a little concerning.

At lease they are going to make Mission only spawn in Enemy space, so owning all systems would be a stupid move as you'd have no where to mission. Better to just own all but one then blab the sh!t out of it in a "lol isk making fleet" and 100 mission spawn in system at once. TiDi anyone?

Moving the lock out to the upgrades is nice.

Soundwaves Idea of allowing none FW corps to remove a system from Fw is so far beyond the level of bad I honest hope he was trolling.

Imagine they don't do the lock out change. You lose your system? Damn now We have to move... Or, Leave FW blob the **** out of the Ihub to remove the system from FW rejoin, continue to dock in your system, as its no longer FW.

FW is FW, if you wanna effect it, join it. Not like its hard with the stupid 0 standings.

Things that need fixing in FW are, Getting LP from systems now flippable. An actually REASON to defend is needed. Balls to balance and farming LP in friendly systems. WTs live in systems next to each other. There is no safe space in FW losec.

O and on the Map, Ur Minnie/Amarr area needs work.

I'll just say one thing, Ezsur!

Don't ask about Italics, just tilt your head.
Capitol One
Blue Canary
Watch This
#7 - 2012-08-02 20:16:06 UTC
The Eszur/Hofjaldgund chokepoint to metropolis is camped so much by instalocking thrashers and tornados it's not even funny.
Adding more ways between Bleak Lands and Metropolis would be a very good thing.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#8 - 2012-08-02 22:07:59 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
Capitol One wrote:
The Eszur/Hofjaldgund chokepoint to metropolis is camped so much by instalocking thrashers and tornados it's not even funny.
Adding more ways between Bleak Lands and Metropolis would be a very good thing.

Confirming there are no other entries to the FW theater. Damn you cockbaggers! Damn you! Wait, wrong gate. Yeah... good point.
Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
#9 - 2012-08-03 08:52:56 UTC
hmmm .... message from whole minutes is .... dear FW players we like u as giunea pigs (all the DUST plans to test) .... u screaming nicely and Hans just sold u all .... nice
Markius TheShed
T.R.I.A.D
Ushra'Khan
#10 - 2012-08-03 09:20:08 UTC
Capitol One wrote:
The Eszur/Hofjaldgund chokepoint to metropolis is camped so much by instalocking thrashers and tornados it's not even funny.
Adding more ways between Bleak Lands and Metropolis would be a very good thing.


I thought you guys titan bridge everywhere? So why is Eszur a problem

**Murientor Tribe** a capsuleer organization composed of radical Minmatar. Since YC107
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade
Ghost Legion.
#11 - 2012-08-03 10:36:47 UTC
Markius TheShed wrote:
Capitol One wrote:
The Eszur/Hofjaldgund chokepoint to metropolis is camped so much by instalocking thrashers and tornados it's not even funny.
Adding more ways between Bleak Lands and Metropolis would be a very good thing.


I thought you guys titan bridge everywhere? So why is Eszur a problem


For me its not,

but there's only a number of times I can ignore intel about the gate gate on ezsur before I yell at the noob that hasn't read that same intel everyday for the last year.

Also we don't bridge everywhere, unless ccp allows high sec cynos we can lul bridge charons.

Don't ask about Italics, just tilt your head.
Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
#12 - 2012-08-03 10:44:48 UTC
Correction ... there is some good stuff:

Two step pointed out that if taxes were boosted on trade in high sec, then you could make more noticeable rewards in the upgraded low sec systems, and make industry have a distinct advantage operating outside high sec.
CCP Soundwave said that they are looking at doubling the amount of slots available in stations, as well as adding a 5% increase to industry speed per level, as a base line package of improvements. There is room to look at other additions as well, but those two would be the place to start.
Hans enthusiastically agreed, faster industry is what is needed, not just additional slots.

just reminding about this http://ingloriousbs.wordpress.com/2012/05/25/new-hope-for-lowsec-i-death-and-taxes/
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#13 - 2012-08-03 11:30:43 UTC
sYnc Vir wrote:
Markius TheShed wrote:
Capitol One wrote:
The Eszur/Hofjaldgund chokepoint to metropolis is camped so much by instalocking thrashers and tornados it's not even funny.
Adding more ways between Bleak Lands and Metropolis would be a very good thing.


I thought you guys titan bridge everywhere? So why is Eszur a problem


For me its not,

but there's only a number of times I can ignore intel about the gate gate on ezsur before I yell at the noob that hasn't read that same intel everyday for the last year.

Also we don't bridge everywhere, unless ccp allows high sec cynos we can lul bridge charons.


Get some security status and use highsec route, problem solved.
Karah Serrigan
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2012-08-03 13:02:49 UTC
Cearain wrote:

2) "CCP Ytterbium explained that this is by design, LP wasn’t paid for defensive plexing because they don’t want to encourage farming of LP’s in your own space, where you could sit and just let the attackers come at you while you profit.
CCP Ytterbium: “If you find yourself winning too much, this is the consequence for it.”"

Yes that....oooooor you think farther than 1cm ahead and enable reward for defensive plexing IF the system is actually vulnerable. So that there is at least some incentive to protect the system against 10 hours of overplexing into negative contest value.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#15 - 2012-08-03 14:24:05 UTC
Karah Serrigan wrote:
Cearain wrote:

2) "CCP Ytterbium explained that this is by design, LP wasn’t paid for defensive plexing because they don’t want to encourage farming of LP’s in your own space, where you could sit and just let the attackers come at you while you profit.
CCP Ytterbium: “If you find yourself winning too much, this is the consequence for it.”"

Yes that....oooooor you think farther than 1cm ahead and enable reward for defensive plexing IF the system is actually vulnerable. So that there is at least some incentive to protect the system against 10 hours of overplexing into negative contest value.


You should protect your system by fighting the offensive plexers before they capture enough plexes. Not by waiting until they leave system and orbitting a button with friendly npcs when no wts are in local. There should be no reward for cowardice it should be punished. And the current system properly punishes it.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Andre Vauban
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2012-08-03 14:54:29 UTC
Cearain wrote:


You should protect your system by fighting the offensive plexers before they capture enough plexes. Not by waiting until they leave system and orbitting a button with friendly npcs when no wts are in local. There should be no reward for cowardice it should be punished. And the current system properly punishes it.


The problem with this statement is the offensive plexers don't show up to your home system during your prime time if they want to actually take the system. They plex it when you are offline. They only show up to "plex" when you are online if their primary motivation is to find a fight.

.
Wenron
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2012-08-03 15:02:01 UTC
Capitol One wrote:
The Eszur/Hofjaldgund chokepoint to metropolis is camped so much by instalocking thrashers and tornados it's not even funny.
Adding more ways between Bleak Lands and Metropolis would be a very good thing.


Completely true that the gate is camped.

In theory, it is a neutral aspect of the map since either faction could gain control of either side of the chokepoint. It just so happens that Minmatar control both sides now.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#18 - 2012-08-03 16:03:03 UTC
Andre Vauban wrote:
Cearain wrote:


You should protect your system by fighting the offensive plexers before they capture enough plexes. Not by waiting until they leave system and orbitting a button with friendly npcs when no wts are in local. There should be no reward for cowardice it should be punished. And the current system properly punishes it.


The problem with this statement is the offensive plexers don't show up to your home system during your prime time if they want to actually take the system. They plex it when you are offline. They only show up to "plex" when you are online if their primary motivation is to find a fight.



Well somebody should be online in the militia. If whoever is online doesn't want to fight then they will lose their space. If you absolutely can't find anyone to fight in the plexes then you have a fallback of defensive plexing if you want. But you shouldn't be rewarded, because you stayed docked while the other side captured plexes in your space.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#19 - 2012-08-03 16:04:42 UTC
Wenron wrote:
Capitol One wrote:
The Eszur/Hofjaldgund chokepoint to metropolis is camped so much by instalocking thrashers and tornados it's not even funny.
Adding more ways between Bleak Lands and Metropolis would be a very good thing.


Completely true that the gate is camped.

In theory, it is a neutral aspect of the map since either faction could gain control of either side of the chokepoint. It just so happens that Minmatar control both sides now.



My problem with it, is that I think gate camping is pretty much the lowest form of pvp. So I am not in favor of anyone camping it.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#20 - 2012-08-03 16:27:58 UTC
I found it very dated. These are minutes on a two month old conversation. There are alot of ideas tossed around with very little consensus.
12Next page