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Planned lowsec sentry "fix" - you guys serious?

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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#241 - 2012-08-03 07:53:13 UTC
Garresh wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
If your entire pvp experience is low-sec consists of "45-60" second fights, then I can see how this change wouldn't affect you much. Even small gang fights, however, last much longer than that. In 10-on-10 engagements, it wouldn't be uncommon to see the end of the fight happen around the 10-minute mark. Considering the fact that according to math, the gate guns are going to be doing more dps than a 10-man gang by the 121th second, this change is a massive nerf to "actual interesting fights."

The only thing you will see is an increase in gate camps, which will now be done with interceptors and alpha strikers.


Then extend the curve out to like 15 minutes. The core principle seems sound. That math needs work. Lol

It's in the billions. I'm pretty sure CCP was forced to cap that progression due to the long integer limit thing.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Conrad Makbure
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#242 - 2012-08-03 07:53:14 UTC
I'm looking forward to this; it will increase traffic in low sec. Gate campers will complain about the change, but won't they complain about anything that makes camping harder anyway? You can probe scan someone down in about 30 seconds, jeeze. The low sec ship destruction will increase; how do you not see this.
Mardrus
Perkone
Caldari State
#243 - 2012-08-03 07:55:55 UTC
Garresh wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
If your entire pvp experience is low-sec consists of "45-60" second fights, then I can see how this change wouldn't affect you much. Even small gang fights, however, last much longer than that. In 10-on-10 engagements, it wouldn't be uncommon to see the end of the fight happen around the 10-minute mark. Considering the fact that according to math, the gate guns are going to be doing more dps than a 10-man gang by the 121th second, this change is a massive nerf to "actual interesting fights."

The only thing you will see is an increase in gate camps, which will now be done with interceptors and alpha strikers.


Then extend the curve out to like 15 minutes. The core principle seems sound. That math needs work. Lol


Why do you consider 15mins enough?

What justification is there for that! Why can't I have a nice big fleet fight for 4 hours if I want!

What is your reasoning for preventing me from having a four hour fight.... Ahh yes right, preventing tears from a couple of camped gates is more important than actual good fights on gate
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#244 - 2012-08-03 07:58:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
Conrad Makbure wrote:
I'm looking forward to this; it will increase traffic in low sec.

No it won't. It will be easier to kill people at gates, not more difficult, due to the ability to use scanres-fit interceptors.

Conrad Makbure wrote:
Gate campers will complain about the change, but won't they complain about anything that makes camping harder anyway?

Gate campers won't complain about this change, because this change is a massive buff to gate camping. Small-group pvpers will complain about this change, especially if they're outlaws. Some affected FW people will also complain about it.

Conrad Makbure wrote:
You can probe scan someone down in about 30 seconds, jeeze. The low sec ship destruction will increase; how do you not see this.

Yes, campers will certainly be getting more kills than they were before. Overall, however, the kill count is going to go down.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Soi Mala
Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen
#245 - 2012-08-03 08:01:44 UTC
If people want genuine "goodfights", then they'l still happen, just not on gates. There have been far worse changes to other playstyles in the past, and yet, somehow eve has not died.

Rest assured that short of pulling the plug, there isn't much CCP can do to stop you having fun in the game, unless you're unable to try new things once in a while.
Arec Bardwin
#246 - 2012-08-03 08:04:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Arec Bardwin
Quote:
CCP Greyscale also points out that another goal is to make it so that the first couple of hits won't kill an interceptor immediately, enabling a quick tackle, and then a warp out.
This is a HUGE buff to bouncing gatecamps.

Also a huge nerf to solo and a big yes to more blobbing.
Khorian
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#247 - 2012-08-03 08:05:48 UTC
4,5 Minutes to kill a triage carrier, and let me guess... 10 minutes to kill a titan right? Anyway. I don't like this proposed change. Why strengthen this "Deus Ex Machina" on engangements longer than a minute, without first putting stuff into lowsec that encourages more people to go there.

CCP. Your players are not stupid. High sec dwellers might be risk adverse, but if thrown into the situation where they actually think about going into low sec for better profits, many of them will overcome the "odds of the omnipresent evil low sec gatecamps that seem to exist on EVERY SINGLE low sec gate according to this thread and popular perception".

People will band together and fly in groups, counter drop the gate campers. Form regional intel channels and counter gangs. Just like they have done since years.

Let me break it down to you: If you die in lowsec, the SAFEST space in EvE Online, you are doing it wrong and need to adapt. Living in low sec is god damn easy.

How the hell did people make it through lowsec years ago when there was no warp to zero? Let me tell you. Determination and willpower. There is always a way if you want something. I didn't quit when i lost my first Brutix to a gatecamp. I learned from the expirience and adapted. And I, like many others back in te day had it much worse than the people today.

I tell you if people DO WANT something really really bad, they will find ways to get it. Give them a reason to actually want to go to low sec. I wanted to farm some static 3/10 complex in Aridia back then, and I eventually did it. It wasn't easy but i did it, and it felt good. I know, thats alot more work to think up and implement stuff than a quick Sentry gun fix. But thats your damn job. Be creative and don't betray the core principles of what EVE Online is, one little piece at a time.

EvE could use some other form of travel, a fundamental change to gate travel as we know it today, wich is also a game mechanic from 2000 and the early concept stages. Fighting in EVE happens on Gates most of the time. I am not 100% sure about that but I would bet my left nut that it is that way. Why is that? Because for a traveller there is no need and no reason to be anywhere else in a system than gate A and Gate B, and between those two points there is no way he can be stopped. If you don't catch him on the in gate, he is gone!

And engagements last longer than 4 minutes.

That is all.
A Lunchbox
Elysian Technologies Enclave
Fraternity.
#248 - 2012-08-03 08:26:20 UTC
I can see it now - dozens of carebears sitting around on stations and gates talking **** to eachother and never engaging because they're too pussy to lose sec status/take sentry fire, while noone runs the belts or signatures/anoms because of suddenly, pirates.

Sounds about the same as every other time bears come to low (minus gatecamps). Needs work.

Box
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#249 - 2012-08-03 08:48:50 UTC
It's just another entry in the long list of god awful suggestions/changes greyscale has made

I honestly don't think he understands this game at all. All his ideas for crimewatch are nothing but detrimental to PVP. I mean really, gate guns destroying you because you looted a wreck? Global suspect flag that allows anyone to shoot you because you flipped a bloody can? The remote rep mechanics... is greyscale just a trolldev or something
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#250 - 2012-08-03 08:54:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
Khorian wrote:
How the hell did people make it through lowsec years ago when there was no warp to zero? Let me tell you. Determination and willpower. There is always a way if you want something. I didn't quit when i lost my first Brutix to a gatecamp. I learned from the expirience and adapted. And I, like many others back in te day had it much worse than the people today.

The real problem is that the majority of people, after losing said Brutix, would immediately hit the account management page, cancel the subscription, put "my shipz deaded!!1" in the reason for quitting field, and go back to Angry Birds and Farmville. There's a lot of these people, and CCP, like other gaming companies that decided they're tired of wearing rags and eating crusts, wants their money. That's why we get these changes that surreptitiously drive us from the game.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
UtamaDoc
Heavywater Innovations
#251 - 2012-08-03 08:57:24 UTC
Isalone wrote:
Quote:
CCP Greyscale moves on to explain his work on sentry guns. Sentry guns will now shoot anyone with a criminal flag, suspect or otherwise. Sentry guns will also start with smaller amounts of damage, and ramp up with time. Ideal tuning will be to where triage carriers will die at around 4 1/2 minutes. This way, if you want to use triage carriers in lowsec on gates you can, but you must commit to the cycle for a length of time before starting your reps, if you want to deactivate triage before the sentry guns kill you and jump out. CCP Greyscale also points out that another goal is to make it so that the first couple of hits won't kill an interceptor immediately, enabling a quick tackle, and then a warp out.


I've lived in lowsec for quite a while now and gotta tell you - this is probably gonna cause as much "whine 'n' unsub" threads as nex store/greed is good did. For those who don't go to low often - most of fleet/gang fights in low take place at gates. If gateguns are gonna pop carriers 4.5mins into the fight, cruiser/bc fleets going gcc on a gate aren't gonna happen at all. When was the last time you have seen a carrier at a gate? I don't think I've ever seen one.

Gatecamps - those aren't the problem, people who won't learn/adapt are. You can easily get through all of them, just do a little research.

discuss, lol


Sounds like to me you are whining at the fact that you can't sit there and smart bomb people and also sit there with gay logi setup's where the damage of Sentries is useless. ...
OmniBeton
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#252 - 2012-08-03 09:02:45 UTC
All those elite low-sec pvpers ... they will not be able to sit 24h/day at gate or station, drinking beer and killing every ship that tries to enter or leave low sec with little effort ... they will have to actually fly to belts after miners or into scan thoose dirty missioners on they safe spots, and CATCH them before they escape ... that's terrible, so terrible ....
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#253 - 2012-08-03 09:03:55 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
It's just another entry in the long list of god awful suggestions/changes greyscale has made

I honestly don't think he understands this game at all. All his ideas for crimewatch are nothing but detrimental to PVP. I mean really, gate guns destroying you because you looted a wreck? Global suspect flag that allows anyone to shoot you because you flipped a bloody can? The remote rep mechanics... is greyscale just a trolldev or something


To be honest I like the can idea but this gate gun change will only help the blob campers.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#254 - 2012-08-03 09:04:14 UTC
OmniBeton wrote:
All those elite low-sec pvpers ... they will not be able to sit 24h/day at gate or station, drinking beer and killing every ship that tries to enter or leave low sec with little effort ... they will have to actually fly to belts after miners or into scan thoose dirty missioners on they safe spots, and CATCH them before they escape ... that's terrible, so terrible ....

Yes, they will be able to sit there and camp just like they've been doing all this time. The only thing that will change is the set of tactics they use.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Arnst Atram
Downgraded Avengers
Hard Knocks Citizens
#255 - 2012-08-03 09:05:07 UTC
So basically, instead of Drakes tanking Gate Guns, we're getting Tornados that can outrange the Guns with Interceptor support that can now temporarily tank then guns, then warp away the moment you get Alpha'd.
You know, honestly, if i jump in to a Gate Camp and know I'm going to die, I'd rather actually be able to fight, even if there's no real way for me to win.

This is a silly, silly, silly idea. Gate guns were introduced for the benefit of newer players or somesuch nonsense right? I am a relatively new player, i don't even have 12m SP, yet i avoid Low like the plague precisely because of those Gate Guns which make it impossible to fight in anything other T1 ship than a Drake or Hurricane.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#256 - 2012-08-03 09:06:22 UTC
Though to be fair I don't mind the idea of gate guns being more of a threat to bigger ships, while also allowing for frigs to take part in fights, such as the damage increasing over time. That idea is fine (though it'll be a bit complicated, and has potential issues - how do you deal with the damage output when guns are cycling, or resetting the damage in general? Do you REALLY want to scale it to the point where no ship or fight can last more than four minutes? Etc).

The real issue though is this bloody awful "suspect" flag mechanic. From how it'll work with neutral reps in hisec to how it'll mean looting a wreck gets you popped by the gate / flagged for the whole universe to kill...
Sounds like someone is dead set on implementing the laziest, easiest mechanic possible even if it's to the detriment of the game.
OmniBeton
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#257 - 2012-08-03 09:12:36 UTC
Arnst Atram wrote:

This is a silly, silly, silly idea. Gate guns were introduced for the benefit of newer players or somesuch nonsense right? I am a relatively new player, i don't even have 12m SP, yet i avoid Low like the plague precisely because of those Gate Guns which make it impossible to fight in anything other T1 ship than a Drake or Hurricane.


Don't like guns - go to null.
Mardrus
Perkone
Caldari State
#258 - 2012-08-03 09:29:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Mardrus
OmniBeton wrote:
Arnst Atram wrote:

This is a silly, silly, silly idea. Gate guns were introduced for the benefit of newer players or somesuch nonsense right? I am a relatively new player, i don't even have 12m SP, yet i avoid Low like the plague precisely because of those Gate Guns which make it impossible to fight in anything other T1 ship than a Drake or Hurricane.


Don't like guns - go to null.


Don't like gate camps! Stay in high.
Vegare
Bitslix
Lolsec Fockel
#259 - 2012-08-03 09:31:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Vegare
The reason why nobody from highsec wants to try out lowsec are not the pirates and their gatecamps, it's the lack of incentives to figure out how to avoid or how to fight them and actually live in lowsec! And why would you, there is nothing to be gained in Lowsec except for PVPers.

Basically you won't be able to have real engagements on gates anymore, only ceptor camps to kill the cloakies and other travellers.

Everybody loses.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#260 - 2012-08-03 09:36:35 UTC
Vegare wrote:
Everybody loses.


The future of eve in a nutshell.