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EVE Ship-vs-Background graphic = "What is seen cannot be unseen"

Author
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#21 - 2012-07-29 20:56:31 UTC
I have still have no idea what the OP is on about. Sounds like a detail issue. Ignore it like all details and carry on.
Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar
#22 - 2012-07-29 22:09:45 UTC
@Corinia ...not referring to depth of field. just when your ship is close to you and completely still, the drone camera moves, and their is no parallax effect with stationary objects in the background. Also, not sure about the full V3 thing you mention. I plead ignorance of that. Your mention of shaders makes me think it is probably not the issue.
If you use a ship with spiky projections, like a Nightmare, you can pinpoint and spot this more easily: "using one of the sharp points of the ship and an exact spot on the station background, observed the changes between the two".
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#23 - 2012-07-30 00:58:03 UTC
Ah I get what your talking about.


Haven't seen this in space (usually moving or not zoomed in enough to notice). I'll play with my Succubus some to see if I can spot it.
Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow
The Revenant Order
#24 - 2012-07-30 02:18:16 UTC
Quit *****ing. Seriously. There are so many more issues that need to be addressed prior to this.

I am the One who exists in Shadow. I am the Devil your parents warned you about.

||CEO: Order of the Shadow||Executor: The Revenant Order||Creator: Bowhead||

Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar
#25 - 2012-07-30 11:45:34 UTC
Thanks Corina.
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#26 - 2012-07-31 08:36:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Abdiel Kavash
I logged in just to confirm, and this is definitely the case (however minor the issue might be). Now I can't unsee it...

For those who don't understand: Hold your finger up in front of your face. See what objects it points to in your room. Now move your head a little without moving your finger (or your room, duh). Watch as your finger points to different objects in the background as you move your head.

Now log in to EVE, switch to ship spinning mode in a station, and watch closely what is behind your ship. Let the camera float around on its own (without rotating it manually). You will notice that your ship is exactly in the same position against the background, even when the camera moves.

After a while of staring at it the hangar looks like someone took a screenshot and is wobbling it in front of your monitor, not as if the camera is floating around in a 3D space.
nat longshot
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2012-07-31 10:33:40 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
I logged in just to confirm, and this is definitely the case (however minor the issue might be). Now I can't unsee it...

For those who don't understand: Hold your finger up in front of your face. See what objects it points to in your room. Now move your head a little without moving your finger (or your room, duh). Watch as your finger points to different objects in the background as you move your head.

Now log in to EVE, switch to ship spinning mode in a station, and watch closely what is behind your ship. Let the camera float around on its own (without rotating it manually). You will notice that your ship is exactly in the same position against the background, even when the camera moves.

After a while of staring at it the hangar looks like someone took a screenshot and is wobbling it in front of your monitor, not as if the camera is floating around in a 3D space.


ah ok thank you for takeing the time to tell what the hell the OP was talking about.

Now who care there other thing that need fix then something that little.

 [13:12:18] CCP Punkturis nat longshot you're a cutie.. OH YAH I WIN!!

Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar
#28 - 2012-07-31 12:17:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
I logged in just to confirm, and this is definitely the case (however minor the issue might be). Now I can't unsee it...

For those who don't understand: Hold your finger up in front of your face. See what objects it points to in your room. Now move your head a little without moving your finger (or your room, duh). Watch as your finger points to different objects in the background as you move your head.

Now log in to EVE, switch to ship spinning mode in a station, and watch closely what is behind your ship. Let the camera float around on its own (without rotating it manually). You will notice that your ship is exactly in the same position against the background, even when the camera moves.

After a while of staring at it the hangar looks like someone took a screenshot and is wobbling it in front of your monitor, not as if the camera is floating around in a 3D space.

Finally.
Thank you Abdiel, thank you.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#29 - 2012-08-02 01:54:36 UTC
I wonder if this is due to having camera shake turned off?

It sounds like the "wobble" is due to the camera turning, rather than moving?
Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar
#30 - 2012-08-02 11:36:47 UTC
@Mara Rinn - I tested this with camera shake on and with it off. I didn't see any changes, however. The test was only done in station. Anyway, it's always been my impression that camera shake is only in play during certain parts of warp and when your ship is hit.

As far as the camera turning, I think I recall someone trying to sell me that argument many months ago...but even if that is what is happening, the lens of the camera is describing an arc, and that arc has distance, and that distance is enough motion to generate parallax (see Abdiel's excellent explanation above). So although you've perceived one of the possible finer points, I can't agree that it is the reason we see no 3D.

As I was testing this out for you, I realized that on my older computer, with an old 6800 ultra video card, and using a decidedly unpointy ship, Noctis, I found it pretty difficult to confirm the problem without a little concentration. That could easily be an issue when people read this and try to see it on their own systems. If it takes more than 5 seconds, well, some guys are going to move on to the next thing...

Anyway, thank you for the ideas.

Jagga Spikes
Spikes Chop Shop
#31 - 2012-08-02 15:03:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Jagga Spikes
it's perfectly normal. camera is not moving. it keeps it place. however, it does rotate slightly, around itself. there is no parallax effect, because camera is not moving (it rotates on axis centered on itself; it does not change position).

trying holding right button and move. that's what happens, just on smaller scale. camera rotation does not affect relation of point of view, your ship and background.

there is nothing technically wrong with it.
Braxus Deninard
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#32 - 2012-08-02 16:07:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Braxus Deninard
The most ironic thing is that of all the things in the game that defy our current understanding of physics, you pick this. The entire game defies our current understanding of physics and more specifically, quantum physics.

Why don't we start an argument on why we can travel faster than the speed of light in this game, even though current laws dictate that is impossible? Same sort of argument as yours OP - it's irrelevant and nobody cares.

Planets are stationary bodies in EvE - they don't orbit anything, or move in the slightest. Couldn't be further from reality. There are millions of examples like these of how the game defies the laws of physics as we understand them today. That's the fun of a game set in the future - they can do what they want. Move on.
Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar
#33 - 2012-08-02 16:47:34 UTC
I'm still hoping to hear from someone who actually remembers (probably well over a year ago now) when the ship actually floated in the station like a real 3D object , and you could see the background behind it shift, disappearing and reappearing slightly behind the image of the ship. Perhaps it was always much more noticeable with a large ship, since they tend to be closer to your actual pov (check Abdiel's post for a good explanation).
Jagga Spikes
Spikes Chop Shop
#34 - 2012-08-02 16:58:38 UTC
i remember when there was more movement. but still, there is nothing physically wrong with current situation. it's just your preference toward old model.
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2012-08-02 17:26:36 UTC
OP doesn't know what "3D" is.

Wow...I seriously don't know what to say to this...

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821

FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#36 - 2012-08-02 21:15:32 UTC
You can't expect a significant observable parallax when you're spinning the camera around an object.

Also, let's encourage CCP to put effort into things that improve the game, not stuff that only gets noticed by anal-retentive people who feel something doesn't look quite right.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Jagga Spikes
Spikes Chop Shop
#37 - 2012-08-03 06:35:43 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
You can't expect a significant observable parallax when you're spinning the camera around an object.
...


you totally can. even if ship stands still, background is moving. it's only when camera rotates around itself ("look around" mode) that ship always covers same area on background, therefore no parallax.

as for...
Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar wrote:

As far as the camera turning, I think I recall someone trying to sell me that argument many months ago...but even if that is what is happening, the lens of the camera is describing an arc, and that arc has distance, and that distance is enough motion to generate parallax (see Abdiel's excellent explanation above). So although you've perceived one of the possible finer points, I can't agree that it is the reason we see no 3D.
...


there is no lens. camera is literally point that rotates on itself. sure, realistically, there is lens distance and observable parallax (for example, turning your eyes moves lens within the eye, allowing you to see from different pov), but it doesn't happen in most 3D engines.
Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar
#38 - 2012-08-04 00:48:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar
I can definitely understand people saying there are more important issues in the game when I see my Nightmare bisect an Abaddon on leaving a station, lol. Not much we can do about that. I don't mind it, really. It is unique.
The way it worked in station before CQ was the background image of the station did not float. It only moved in response to you moving your camera around... and you could spin your ship all day but the station was rock solid. The only thing that floated then was your ship. What we saw then was real "3D".
Somehow, someone messed up the code, and when they did, everything started floating together:
Abdiel Kavash wrote:

the hangar looks like someone took a screenshot and is wobbling it in front of your monitor
...
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#39 - 2012-08-04 01:55:12 UTC
Crap... now I see it.


This is a case of what has been seen cannot be unseen.



However I can live with it. Since they are going to (eventually) redo station hanger environments, they can get to it then.
Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar
#40 - 2012-08-04 02:04:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar
Corina Jarr wrote:
Crap... now I see it.


This is a case of what has been seen cannot be unseen.



you made me smile and laugh. stop that, I have to be serious or I might get blown up ;)

.and yeah, it's not that bad anyway.
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