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Crime & Punishment

 
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C&P, this pertains to YOU

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Karl Planck
Perkone
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-08-02 20:47:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Karl Planck
Update: From the GD thread a good summation of why this is a bad idea.

thought about whining about this in GD but this seems like a more contructive place. Now i have been following the proposed crimewatch changes for quite some time (while i haven't encountered it in years nuetral reps always seemed ret*rded). Read over the minutes today and about sh!t my pants

CSM minutes wrote:
CCP Greyscale moves on to explain his work on sentry guns. Sentry guns will now shoot anyone with a criminal flag, suspect or otherwise. Sentry guns will also start with smaller amounts of damage, and ramp up with time. Ideal tuning will be to where triage carriers will die at around 4 1/2 minutes. This way, if you want to use triage carriers in lowsec on gates you can, but you must commit to the cycle for a length of time before starting your reps, if you want to deactivate triage before the sentry guns kill you and jump out. CCP Greyscale also points out that another goal is to make it so that the first couple of hits won't kill an interceptor immediately, enabling a quick tackle, and then a warp out.


Before i overreact to this, am i crazy or is idea 100% pants-on-head ret*rded? This came out of nowhere, just seems like something Greyscale pulled right out of his arse. Even more there was NOTHING said by the CSM. i mean, how the hell did that not just leap out at them. Evil

Edit: just to be clear, i'm pissed because this seems like the biggest lowsec nerf i have ever heard of

I has all the eve inactivity
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#2 - 2012-08-02 21:34:06 UTC  |  Edited by: FloppieTheBanjoClown
Karl Planck wrote:
Before i overreact to this, am i crazy or is idea 100% pants-on-head ret*rded? This came out of nowhere, just seems like something Greyscale pulled right out of his arse. Even more there was NOTHING said by the CSM. i mean, how the hell did that not just leap out at them. Evil

Edit: just to be clear, i'm pissed because this seems like the biggest lowsec nerf i have ever heard of


There has been a lot of outcry in both directions: one is that the sentry guns have made the use of frigates around the gates impossible, and the other is that sentries are too easy to tank. This seems to be an attempt to fix both.

Now, you can use frigates for quick kills, or handoffs to larger and more durable craft. But you can't leave those large craft on the grid indefinitely...you'll have to wait out that criminal timer. I don't see this as a wholly bad thing; the design change is based on a lot of feedback and sounds like it's looking for some middle ground where both parties are happy.

A major question is, what's the cooldown on that sentry damage escalation? When you evacuate all the GCC ships from the grid and the sentries stop shooting, how long will you need to wait before they are doing their base damage again?

Also, I predict hilarity when a criminal battlecruiser jumps into a system where the sentry guns are still "warmed up" and gets one-shotted. Plus people crashing gate camps in super-tanky ships and just holding pirates down while the sentries melt them. I've got some half-formed ideas that could make some very creative use of these sentries.

This is going to take some iteration to get the balance working properly. Meanwhile, let's try to keep to constructive criticism and away from tears.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Xylorn Hasher
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-08-02 21:52:37 UTC
What an idea is that?

Sentries DPS will start low and raise in time but to what level exacly? 300 DPS like it is now?

"Also, I predict hilarity when a criminal battlecruiser jumps into a system where the sentry guns are still "warmed up" and gets one-shotted. Plus people crashing gate camps in super-tanky ships and just holding pirates down while the sentries melt them. I've got some half-formed ideas that could make some very creative use of these sentries."

You must be kidding me. It will kill solo PvP even more as it is now. I used to do solo gate camps in Low and having on my a*s 300 DPS from gate guns plus 400-600 from incoming ship isn't piece of cake.

I really hope that the max DPS from gate aggro will stay at 300 as it is now.

All my posts are made shortly after Marihuana consumption.
Daemon Ceed
Ice Fire Warriors
#4 - 2012-08-02 22:01:15 UTC
I can already hear the screaming and slapping of wives coming from The United. households. Those gate hugging nubs are gonna be PISSED! Bahahahaha!
Psychotic Monk
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2012-08-02 22:49:42 UTC
The real issue isn't the way the damage is applied, which is cute and probably okay, it's that sentry guns will automatically shoot people under a certain sec status, whether they've done anything or not. This is problematic and a huge nerf to lowsec. You're just taking the people that actually *do* generate content in lowsec and ******* them.

Say what you want about The United, but they are making content erryday. They're killing ****, depriving people of their frigs and pods, and making people ask themselves if it's worth it to take that shortcut through lowsec. This is a decision that's going to be taken away throughout lowsec.

I am all for interesting **** going on, and this will cause the opposite. :(

Belligerent Undesirables Selling Griefer Immunity
Daemon Ceed
Ice Fire Warriors
#6 - 2012-08-02 22:54:59 UTC
Psychotic Monk wrote:
it's that sentry guns will automatically shoot people under a certain sec status, whether they've done anything or not. This is problematic and a huge nerf to lowsec. You're just taking the people that actually *do* generate content in lowsec and ******* them.


Jesus, I must've missed that part. This sucks giant goat balls! While I typically don't hang out on gates, everyone's gotta fly through them to get around. This is a huge lowsec nerf. Lowsec has already been dying for something to make it vibrant again, and a change like that would be a death knell.

Are they trying to push us out to null to become cannon fodder for ego freaks and tech serf lords?
Xylorn Hasher
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-08-02 22:58:48 UTC
Psychotic Monk wrote:
The real issue isn't the way the damage is applied, which is cute and probably okay, it's that sentry guns will automatically shoot people under a certain sec status, whether they've done anything or not. This is problematic and a huge nerf to lowsec. You're just taking the people that actually *do* generate content in lowsec and ******* them.

Say what you want about The United, but they are making content erryday. They're killing ****, depriving people of their frigs and pods, and making people ask themselves if it's worth it to take that shortcut through lowsec. This is a decision that's going to be taken away throughout lowsec.

I am all for interesting **** going on, and this will cause the opposite. :(


Wut? Sentry guns will automatically shoot people under a certain sec status, whether they've done anything or not.

I guess i smoke too much weed this night and havn't noticed that, again Wut????

How many CCP employee do piracy in lowsec? Are they know wtf are they doing with that game?

Eve is loosing its "hardcordness" and becomes carebear land.

All my posts are made shortly after Marihuana consumption.
Tara Read
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#8 - 2012-08-02 23:10:50 UTC
Karl Planck wrote:
thought about whining about this in GD but this seems like a more contructive place. Now i have been following the proposed crimewatch changes for quite some time (while i haven't encountered it in years nuetral reps always seemed ret*rded). Read over the minutes today and about sh!t my pants

CSM minutes wrote:
CCP Greyscale moves on to explain his work on sentry guns. Sentry guns will now shoot anyone with a criminal flag, suspect or otherwise. Sentry guns will also start with smaller amounts of damage, and ramp up with time. Ideal tuning will be to where triage carriers will die at around 4 1/2 minutes. This way, if you want to use triage carriers in lowsec on gates you can, but you must commit to the cycle for a length of time before starting your reps, if you want to deactivate triage before the sentry guns kill you and jump out. CCP Greyscale also points out that another goal is to make it so that the first couple of hits won't kill an interceptor immediately, enabling a quick tackle, and then a warp out.


Before i overreact to this, am i crazy or is idea 100% pants-on-head ret*rded? This came out of nowhere, just seems like something Greyscale pulled right out of his arse. Even more there was NOTHING said by the CSM. i mean, how the hell did that not just leap out at them. Evil

Edit: just to be clear, i'm pissed because this seems like the biggest lowsec nerf i have ever heard of


This is very very bad. Essentially applying damage to anyone with a negative sec status regardless of aggression on a gate will make this Carebear Online.
Grog Drinker
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2012-08-02 23:27:22 UTC
This will also do little to stop gate camps. Campers will just sit out of gate gun range and warp in when they see someone coming.

Almost every small gang engagement I've been in in low sec has occurred on gates. These will now be impossible.

Shooting anyone below a certain sec status is also absolutely horrible.
Angry Onions
League of Angered Gentlemen
#10 - 2012-08-02 23:33:46 UTC
Gate gun mechanics are fine as it is....terrible idea is terrible and Greyscale should feel bad, but this probably won't get far....if not... C&P must leave the basement of EvE-O and **** on someone

S H I T P O S T I N G
Styth spiting
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2012-08-03 02:08:37 UTC
I can't decide which would be a better comment here. Maybe if you don't like it go to null sec. Or maybe, you wanted people to get out of high sec and you got what you wished for.

Seriously though the only down side to this is for gate campers who will now have vastly more players coming into lowsec for missions, mining, pi, sites, etc that you now get to shoot at. This means far more PVP then some lame group of 10 people killing people when they leave station or enter a system.

This update greatly increases PVP while making lame gate campers need to go out and look for kills instead of just mashing Ctlr + Click F1.
Garven Dreis
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-08-03 02:54:50 UTC
Why can't the damage scale for the different sizes of ships (ala missiles except not as balls)? Make it so that tackle frigs are viable with going too far down the A BLOO BLOO LOWSAK IS DANGERUS.

Terrible Poster Runner-up 2014
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-08-03 03:28:38 UTC
Psychotic Monk wrote:
The real issue isn't the way the damage is applied, which is cute and probably okay, it's that sentry guns will automatically shoot people under a certain sec status, whether they've done anything or not. This is problematic and a huge nerf to lowsec. You're just taking the people that actually *do* generate content in lowsec and ******* them.

Say what you want about The United, but they are making content erryday. They're killing ****, depriving people of their frigs and pods, and making people ask themselves if it's worth it to take that shortcut through lowsec. This is a decision that's going to be taken away throughout lowsec.

I am all for interesting **** going on, and this will cause the opposite. :(

Yea keep the sentries for GCC peeps only plox.
Cat Casidy
Percussive Diplomacy
Sedition.
#14 - 2012-08-03 05:39:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Cat Casidy
CCP Greyscale moves on to explain his work on sentry guns. Sentry guns will now shoot anyone with a criminal flag, suspect or otherwise.

Notice how that doesn't say anyone with low sec status?

.
Tara Read
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#15 - 2012-08-03 06:05:15 UTC
Cat Casidy wrote:
CCP Greyscale moves on to explain his work on sentry guns. Sentry guns will now shoot anyone with a criminal flag, suspect or otherwise.

Notice how that doesn't say anyone with low sec status?



It also states "suspect" which is one hell of an interpretation. This could also mean someone with a negative sec status. This would effectively kill low sec not because of gate camps but simply because of mechanics.

All persons with negative sec status then are limited and quite hindered in any low sec system.

Myself I've lived in low sec for years and pride myself on being criminal scum. You want to lose subscriptions (3 accounts here personally) here's how to start doing it.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#16 - 2012-08-03 06:09:11 UTC
Cat Casidy wrote:
CCP Greyscale moves on to explain his work on sentry guns. Sentry guns will now shoot anyone with a criminal flag, suspect or otherwise.

Notice how that doesn't say anyone with low sec status?

Wait... so if I steal, sentries will blap me (likely in a second because I loot with an cheap nano frig).


CCP... really.



And another thing, getting into lowsec isn't that hard. I've been in hundreds (mild exaggeration) of LS systems including Rancer and Amamake and not once encountered a gate camp. Unless you count a BR...


Really this change is a little over the top. Hopefully it will be tested on Sisi first, and hopefully CCP listens this time.
JC Anderson
RED ROSE THORN
#17 - 2012-08-03 06:35:31 UTC  |  Edited by: JC Anderson
Xylorn Hasher wrote:
What an idea is that?

Sentries DPS will start low and raise in time but to what level exacly? 300 DPS like it is now?

"Also, I predict hilarity when a criminal battlecruiser jumps into a system where the sentry guns are still "warmed up" and gets one-shotted. Plus people crashing gate camps in super-tanky ships and just holding pirates down while the sentries melt them. I've got some half-formed ideas that could make some very creative use of these sentries."

You must be kidding me. It will kill solo PvP even more as it is now. I used to do solo gate camps in Low and having on my a*s 300 DPS from gate guns plus 400-600 from incoming ship isn't piece of cake.

I really hope that the max DPS from gate aggro will stay at 300 as it is now.


Don't count on it staying at 300.,

They said right in the notes that over time they want to ramp up the damage to a point where a triage carrier can be taken down.

That will mean a Max dps much higher... And I mean MUCH higher than 300.

A carrier in triage mode can tank well into the multiple of thousands.
JC Anderson
RED ROSE THORN
#18 - 2012-08-03 06:43:08 UTC
Tara Read wrote:
Cat Casidy wrote:
CCP Greyscale moves on to explain his work on sentry guns. Sentry guns will now shoot anyone with a criminal flag, suspect or otherwise.

Notice how that doesn't say anyone with low sec status?



It also states "suspect" which is one hell of an interpretation. This could also mean someone with a negative sec status. This would effectively kill low sec not because of gate camps but simply because of mechanics.

All persons with negative sec status then are limited and quite hindered in any low sec system.

Myself I've lived in low sec for years and pride myself on being criminal scum. You want to lose subscriptions (3 accounts here personally) here's how to start doing it.


They covered the meaning of the suspect flag at fan fest during the crime watch presentation.

The suspect flag is for theft of others property as well as neutral repair support when they Rep somebody with the criminal flag. Might even be if they Rep another suspect but I can't remember for sure.
Lucy Oreless
Rise of Rephaim
#19 - 2012-08-03 07:39:37 UTC
Whattahell Evil Whats wrong with you CCP..?


I can't speak for all of lo-sec or any other players than me, but i find this totally redicolous.. Gateguns taking out a triage-carrier in 4m ? Scaling dps? shot at gates just for being a pirate (or criminal suspect as you so confusingly put it).



Only good about this change is that frigs will get a function in gatecamps. But that can be done differently by adding tracking to the sentrys.. also, there is no need for frigs on gate for fast locking. T3's and resebos can do that today.


EVE is supposed to be a pvp-oriented game...a dark and cynical universe... You are making lo-sec into hi-sec II. WHY?

I have been butthurt by nerfs before, but this is the worst idea i have ever seen from CCP!!
Lo-sec (as i see it) is a learning ground for younger/smaller alliances and corps/individuals before eventually taking the big leap out in 0.0.. This is where you learn the basics for PVP, and how to make corps function i hostile surroundings.


I am all for adapting and finding new possibilities withing the mechanics, but this is just to much... WAY to much of a nerf..
What will be next, lo-sec concorde comes drag you out of CQ if u get a - in front of sec-satus?



Where did the love for pirates go..?

 I did not have sexual relations to THAT woman....
Xylorn Hasher
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-08-03 08:09:04 UTC
JC Anderson wrote:
Xylorn Hasher wrote:
What an idea is that?

Sentries DPS will start low and raise in time but to what level exacly? 300 DPS like it is now?

"Also, I predict hilarity when a criminal battlecruiser jumps into a system where the sentry guns are still "warmed up" and gets one-shotted. Plus people crashing gate camps in super-tanky ships and just holding pirates down while the sentries melt them. I've got some half-formed ideas that could make some very creative use of these sentries."

You must be kidding me. It will kill solo PvP even more as it is now. I used to do solo gate camps in Low and having on my a*s 300 DPS from gate guns plus 400-600 from incoming ship isn't piece of cake.

I really hope that the max DPS from gate aggro will stay at 300 as it is now.


Don't count on it staying at 300.,

They said right in the notes that over time they want to ramp up the damage to a point where a triage carrier can be taken down.

That will mean a Max dps much higher... And I mean MUCH higher than 300.

A carrier in triage mode can tank well into the multiple of thousands.



Rgr that.
Sigh, it looks like CCP will have my 2 accounts less if they launch that change, cuz if i can't do solo what i'm good at and gives me most fun i'm simply off.
I don't know if you already noticed that EVE is turning into carbear land direction. I would be gratefull if people with ideas like CCP Grayscale would put his heads into his own a*ses and stay there.
Gates in lowsec aren't an issue for thinking people. Is that really hard to put godd*m cloak on your ship and learn to cloak+MWD trick if you don't want to fight or use cloaky transport ships which are nearly not possible to catch on gate?
It's not the Pirates kills in lowsec it's your stupidity.

All my posts are made shortly after Marihuana consumption.
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