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New dev blog: CSM Meeting Minutes - Summer 2012

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Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
Shadow Cartel
#101 - 2012-08-02 23:14:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Alekseyev Karrde
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Dierdra Vaal wrote:
Question 2 while I wait on the answer to my question 1 (page 3 of this thread):

Pages 93-95 Crimewatch

Was there no discussion about the change in sec status hits that was discussed at fanfest (essentially meaning lowsec piracy would no longer lock a pirate out of high sec)? I would love to know if that idea (a great idea!) was scrapped or if it's still going to happen - and if so, when?


I love this idea as well, and will definitely be talking more about it to CCP as we head into Winter Expansion planning. I wasn't crazy about the gate gun proposal either in its specific form, but it all sounded like mechanics that were still being conceptualized and we've definitely been following up on lot of the stuff touched upon at the summit in our internal forum posts.


That's pretty much what I got out of it too. "scaling damage" concept that would allow frigs to aggress without being instapopped. The rate at which it scales and how high it goes till it stops seemed like a details conversation best had later or on a forum where you can take the time to crunch numbers and stuff.

EDIT: For the record I don't think sentry guns killing a triage before it could come out of cycle is a good idea, but i do like the idea of the sentry guns getting progressively meaner as GCC keeps happening on one partic gate, even to the point where cap ships are threatened. I'm confident the opportunity to provide feedback on where that balance point should be more precisely will come.

Alek the Kidnapper, Hero of the CSM
Malcom Vincent
Generic Alt Corporation 421
#102 - 2012-08-02 23:20:02 UTC
Casiella Truza wrote:


And here I thought being the managing editor of EVE Stratics meant that was your job.


No, not really.

I've not been approached by the CSM to make such a format, but if you like me to I can do that when resources permits.

We don't as such cross post information that is already available from official sources though (outside of the auto-populating RSS on our forums) unless someone ask us specifically to.

It takes time to rebuild the rolling and static content we have available, but if its a community request, I can certainly up-prioritize it and postpone some of the planned content for a while.

Would you prefer a condensed version?

Upstarting Blogger: Ormehullet Guides and more is coming
Typherian
V.O.I.D.
Pandemic Legion
#103 - 2012-08-02 23:22:33 UTC
Capitol One wrote:
Quote:
CCP Greyscale moves on to explain his work on sentry guns. Sentry guns will now shoot anyone with a criminal flag, suspect or otherwise. Sentry guns will also start with smaller amounts of damage, and ramp up with time. Ideal tuning will be to where triage carriers will die at around 4 1/2 minutes. This way, if you want to use triage carriers in lowsec on gates you can, but you must commit to the cycle for a length of time before starting your reps, if you want to deactivate triage before the sentry guns kill you and jump out. CCP Greyscale also points out that another goal is to make it so that the first couple of hits won't kill an interceptor immediately, enabling a quick tackle, and then a warp out.


Stressing that this is a BAD IDEA. Like another poster mentioned, all this will do is make for even less fights in lowsec.
A major part of lowsec dwellers are pirates/outlaws and engage under sentry fire a lot.

You're looking at 10-20 man gangs with maybe 1 Triage for reps as a very common theme in lowsec. With these changes these groups (a major part of lowsec pvp) would simply not engage on a gate, hotdrop/trap a neutral roaming gang because the incoming dps for even a 5-10 minute engagement would be too much.

I mean, what are the chances of 20 man bc gang agreeing to fight the Shadow Cartel Faction BS gang with Triage on a planet because SC can't engage them on a gate?

This would DESTROY lowsec.

Seriously, what the ****.



Completely agree with this. Thank you CCP for buffing the blob again. As it stands a triage carry is one of the only ways for a small group to fight a far larger group. Making gate guns a threat to the triage is simply ********. If this goes through its going to turn lowsec into the stupid blob fest that is 0.0 (or just make it even more empty)
Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
#104 - 2012-08-02 23:26:34 UTC
New minutes are good with transparency and detail. Continue with that format for next minutes?

Like to see the idea of pos's implementated. I say PI should be used for moon mining but other alternatives
are not objectionale. Jumpdrive starbases = ultracaps? Did I mention I liked the pos part? No forcefield protecting
your fleet? Personally I think if you can't defend a fleet, then its not a very good one, Im not opposed to a forcefield
module however.

Generally a good read though I think factional warfare misses the mark in that it doesn't really go into how
people can be encouraged to continue with it [in a deeper more rp way]. The war has to end sometime too.
Sure I RP in it but I still cannot conquer caldari high sec systems!

More mindclash for Incarna! Can my avatar use the toilet [ala mass effects secret toilet on the normandy?]
or does he still have to go in his pod? Id like to see an animation of my character getting out of his pod, sometime
in the future too. Planetary interaction [PI] needs more iteration too though it was touched briefly in those minutes regarding dust
though the rest of it can probably wait for now. Need some more noise on some of the planned new modules too
[microjumpdrive anyone?].
Kaildoth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#105 - 2012-08-02 23:29:39 UTC
Arenas - Instanced PVP in EvE?
I hope you are joking.
Lady Zarrina
New Eden Browncoats
#106 - 2012-08-02 23:33:13 UTC
Great to see the new minutes.

And yes please continue to include all the extra details. That extra info is great. Plus it gives you a good feeling of who you may want to vote for in the future. Now in a perfect world, there would be a summary (in addition to the details) for each major section, but over all excellent work.

EVE: All about Flying Frisky and Making Iskie
Heimdallofasgard
Ministry of Furious Retribution
Fraternity.
#107 - 2012-08-02 23:35:21 UTC
Kaildoth wrote:
Arenas - Instanced PVP in EvE?
I hope you are joking.


I've got no problem with arranged pvp arenas, but please... not instanced, it'll break the sandbox... put it in control of the players please, and in K-Space.
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#108 - 2012-08-02 23:39:17 UTC
whats the timeframe on the mining and industry changes ?
Taawuz
League of Non-Aligned Worlds
#109 - 2012-08-02 23:43:44 UTC
I find these minutes amusing and acceptable.

I support the full transcript.
Kaycerra
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#110 - 2012-08-02 23:44:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaycerra
Capitol One wrote:
Quote:
CCP Greyscale moves on to explain his work on sentry guns. Sentry guns will now shoot anyone with a criminal flag, suspect or otherwise. Sentry guns will also start with smaller amounts of damage, and ramp up with time. Ideal tuning will be to where triage carriers will die at around 4 1/2 minutes. This way, if you want to use triage carriers in lowsec on gates you can, but you must commit to the cycle for a length of time before starting your reps, if you want to deactivate triage before the sentry guns kill you and jump out. CCP Greyscale also points out that another goal is to make it so that the first couple of hits won't kill an interceptor immediately, enabling a quick tackle, and then a warp out.


Stressing that this is a BAD IDEA. Like another poster mentioned, all this will do is make for even less fights in lowsec.
A major part of lowsec dwellers are pirates/outlaws and engage under sentry fire a lot.

You're looking at 10-20 man gangs with maybe 1 Triage for reps as a very common theme in lowsec. With these changes these groups (a major part of lowsec pvp) would simply not engage on a gate, hotdrop/trap a neutral roaming gang because the incoming dps for even a 5-10 minute engagement would be too much.

I mean, what are the chances of 20 man bc gang agreeing to fight the Shadow Cartel Faction BS gang with Triage on a planet because SC can't engage them on a gate?

This would DESTROY lowsec.

Seriously, what the ****.


This. This. This. This. This. Did anyone actually give any thought to how gate gun damage scaling up past what it is now, will prettymuch invalidate one of the last bastions for triage carrier based pvp gangs, and will collectively hurt lowsec pvp for any duration of extended fights? This is basically saying, "Welcome to the sandbox, heres the rules; carriers in triage, if you rep right away, you die. If you enter triage with guns already aggroed, you die, you have gate guns, but get tackled by an inty you cant hit and you have gate guns, you die, your fight lasts more than, what, a minute or two, people start popping almost instantly to gate guns." When did CCP decide it was a good idea for all fights in lowsec near sentry guns to have a max time limit? Is this part of the 'war on lag' ?
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
#111 - 2012-08-02 23:44:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Fon Revedhort
Typherian wrote:
Completely agree with this. Thank you CCP for buffing the blob again. As it stands a triage carry is one of the only ways for a small group to fight a far larger group. Making gate guns a threat to the triage is simply ********. If this goes through its going to turn lowsec into the stupid blob fest that is 0.0 (or just make it even more empty)

What prevents a far larger group from using a triage carrier as well? I can't even be sure whether the latter one wasn't more common.

It's lame, you can replace a carrier with whatever else and it still would make as much sense - that is, none. Falcons allow to fight outnumbered, Anciliary shield boosters allow to fight outnumbered, nano allows to fight outnumbered etc. We've heard all of this.

What really promotes small groups is emphasis on skill-depandant things, like current positioning/MWDing.

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.
Selak Zorander
Mord-Sith
#112 - 2012-08-02 23:46:14 UTC
Loved the amount of information that is presented in the minutes.

I like the later sessions that are more qoutes and not full discussion transcript the best because it was a little easier to follow than the very first session.

Like others I would like to say that I like the sounds of the POS ideas and the potential industry changes. I need to finish read the others more in depth but wanted to read those first and I believe that both sound good so far. I know they will be different before they hit TQ but atleast the start is in the right place in my mind.
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
Shadow Cartel
#113 - 2012-08-02 23:48:43 UTC
Kaildoth wrote:
Arenas - Instanced PVP in EvE?
I hope you are joking.

Specifically made clear it wouldnt be instanced. Think less WoW, more Alliance Tournament Lite

Alek the Kidnapper, Hero of the CSM
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
#114 - 2012-08-02 23:49:32 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
*snip*

Cyno.

Where are the discussions?

Remember your words?
http://community.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1508537&page=1#29

Quote:
>> Hot-drops are too easy - I think we're reaching a place where there's a broad consensus on this being not a cool outcome for everyone except the guy jumping in.

Posted - 2011.05.12 16:01:00

So?..

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.
Capitol One
Blue Canary
Watch This
#115 - 2012-08-02 23:53:35 UTC
Fon Revedhort wrote:
Typherian wrote:
Completely agree with this. Thank you CCP for buffing the blob again. As it stands a triage carry is one of the only ways for a small group to fight a far larger group. Making gate guns a threat to the triage is simply ********. If this goes through its going to turn lowsec into the stupid blob fest that is 0.0 (or just make it even more empty)

What prevents a far larger group from using a triage carrier as well? I can't even be sure whether the latter one wasn't more common.

It's lame, you can replace a carrier with whatever else and it still would make as much sense - that is, none. Falcons allow to fight outnumbered, Anciliary shield boosters allow to fight outnumbered, nano allows to fight outnumbered etc. We've heard all of this.

What really promotes small groups is emphasis on skill-demandant things, like current positioning/MWDing.


Let's say you have a 10 man Pirate BS gang fighting on a gate. They can't in a Triage because "LOL GATEGUNS U DEAD", They bring in 10 pantheon carriers. Actually the battleships would probably die still, so they would just bring 30 pantheon carriers.

As cool as carriers are, that would completely invalidate any other pirate engagement on a gate.

I'm so sad panda Sad
Mashie Saldana
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#116 - 2012-08-02 23:57:39 UTC
I have now read all 165 pages, good work CSM.

How to win EVE
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
#117 - 2012-08-02 23:59:17 UTC
Capitol One wrote:
Fon Revedhort wrote:
Typherian wrote:
Completely agree with this. Thank you CCP for buffing the blob again. As it stands a triage carry is one of the only ways for a small group to fight a far larger group. Making gate guns a threat to the triage is simply ********. If this goes through its going to turn lowsec into the stupid blob fest that is 0.0 (or just make it even more empty)

What prevents a far larger group from using a triage carrier as well? I can't even be sure whether the latter one wasn't more common.

It's lame, you can replace a carrier with whatever else and it still would make as much sense - that is, none. Falcons allow to fight outnumbered, Anciliary shield boosters allow to fight outnumbered, nano allows to fight outnumbered etc. We've heard all of this.

What really promotes small groups is emphasis on skill-demandant things, like current positioning/MWDing.


Let's say you have a 10 man Pirate BS gang fighting on a gate. They can't in a Triage because "LOL GATEGUNS U DEAD", They bring in 10 pantheon carriers. Actually the battleships would probably die still, so they would just bring 30 pantheon carriers.

As cool as carriers are, that would completely invalidate any other pirate engagement on a gate.

I'm so sad panda Sad

I'm a firm believer that gankers always use maximum of resources they have at their hands.

I'm not saying flexible gate-guns are good or bad, just that mentioning carrier as a small-gang tool fighting a larger one is moot. It has nothing to do with that. Also, CCP has never actually stated they are up to promoting smaller groups over bigger ones. At least I can't recall anything of that sort.

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.
Talana Mershie
Shadow State
Goonswarm Federation
#118 - 2012-08-03 00:06:26 UTC
Capitol One wrote:
Quote:
CCP Greyscale moves on to explain his work on sentry guns. Sentry guns will now shoot anyone with a criminal flag, suspect or otherwise. Sentry guns will also start with smaller amounts of damage, and ramp up with time. Ideal tuning will be to where triage carriers will die at around 4 1/2 minutes. This way, if you want to use triage carriers in lowsec on gates you can, but you must commit to the cycle for a length of time before starting your reps, if you want to deactivate triage before the sentry guns kill you and jump out. CCP Greyscale also points out that another goal is to make it so that the first couple of hits won't kill an interceptor immediately, enabling a quick tackle, and then a warp out.


Stressing that this is a BAD IDEA. Like another poster mentioned, all this will do is make for even less fights in lowsec.
A major part of lowsec dwellers are pirates/outlaws and engage under sentry fire a lot.

You're looking at 10-20 man gangs with maybe 1 Triage for reps as a very common theme in lowsec. With these changes these groups (a major part of lowsec pvp) would simply not engage on a gate, hotdrop/trap a neutral roaming gang because the incoming dps for even a 5-10 minute engagement would be too much.

I mean, what are the chances of 20 man bc gang agreeing to fight the Shadow Cartel Faction BS gang with Triage on a planet because SC can't engage them on a gate?

This would DESTROY lowsec.

Seriously, what the ****.


While I do like the idea of frigates and smaller ships to be able to absorb a few gate gun hits I must agree that this idea is terribly destructive to the entirety of low sec. In order to kill a triage carrier the guns would need to be doing 20K+ DPS. Say goodbye to small gang and solo roaming as subcaps won't stand a chance at tanking gate guns for more than a couple minutes.
Kaycerra
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#119 - 2012-08-03 00:16:54 UTC
Capitol One wrote:
Fon Revedhort wrote:
Typherian wrote:
Completely agree with this. Thank you CCP for buffing the blob again. As it stands a triage carry is one of the only ways for a small group to fight a far larger group. Making gate guns a threat to the triage is simply ********. If this goes through its going to turn lowsec into the stupid blob fest that is 0.0 (or just make it even more empty)

What prevents a far larger group from using a triage carrier as well? I can't even be sure whether the latter one wasn't more common.

It's lame, you can replace a carrier with whatever else and it still would make as much sense - that is, none. Falcons allow to fight outnumbered, Anciliary shield boosters allow to fight outnumbered, nano allows to fight outnumbered etc. We've heard all of this.

What really promotes small groups is emphasis on skill-demandant things, like current positioning/MWDing.


Let's say you have a 10 man Pirate BS gang fighting on a gate. They can't in a Triage because "LOL GATEGUNS U DEAD", They bring in 10 pantheon carriers. Actually the battleships would probably die still, so they would just bring 30 pantheon carriers.

As cool as carriers are, that would completely invalidate any other pirate engagement on a gate.

I'm so sad panda Sad


Your previous post made a lot of sense. This one?

"Lets say you have a 10 man gang. They cant do X, so they bring 30 ships"

I knew right there, that no thought was put into this.
Rengerel en Distel
#120 - 2012-08-03 00:23:15 UTC
I thought the inside jokes, banter and such were a bit much for minutes. Perhaps it humanizes the people, but if i wanted that, i'd listen to the podcasts.

Overall, instead of commenting on individual parts here, shouldn't each section have its own thread again in jita park, so that the appropriate people can keep the comments appropriate?

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.