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Reasons to lol at new barge changes
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Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#81 - 2012-08-02 19:21:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
MIrple wrote:
So why does the Hulk need a buff to EHP in your opinion if its in a fleet then? You want it to have the same amount of EHP as the Mak will have


If they take 25% off from maximum EHP I think that is far from buff.
MIrple
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#82 - 2012-08-02 19:24:11 UTC
I was able to fit the same tank on Sisi as I was on TQ so how are you losing 25% EHP?
Suddenly Forums ForumKings
Doomheim
#83 - 2012-08-02 19:24:50 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
MIrple wrote:
So why does the Hulk need a buff to EHP in your opinion if its in a fleet then? You want it to have the same amount of EHP as the Mak will have


If they take 25% off from maximum EHP I think that is far from buff.


Go make some friends.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#84 - 2012-08-02 19:30:20 UTC
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
MIrple wrote:
So why does the Hulk need a buff to EHP in your opinion if its in a fleet then? You want it to have the same amount of EHP as the Mak will have


If they take 25% off from maximum EHP I think that is far from buff.


Go make some friends.


By looks of it someone takes EVE way too seriously.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#85 - 2012-08-02 19:51:21 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
You want the highest tier ship to be the worst, I want the highest tier ship to not be the worst choice but a valid option witch it is not with current build.
There is no “highest tier’. That's the whole point of the change.

How is the Hulk not a valid option with these changes? It does what it's supposed to do and it does it very well.

Quote:
Yep but thing is that the current Skiff on SISI still gives me 3200M3 p/cycle without implants and full skills, witch is more than I can get with Hulk in same conditions (I do have good ones thou but in my test had T2 strips and T1 cristals, no implants or booster)
-maybe those numbers weren't good/bug whatsoever but if those are right, I'll mine more often in my 80KEHP 82+ resist across the board 3200m p/cycle Skiff. -I do think my build is probably bug-
It probably is, yes.

With my skills, I pull a bit over 3,600m³ with a Skiff… and just over 4,600m³ with a comparably fit Hulk (and just over 4k with a Mack).

Jorma Morkkis wrote:
If they take 25% off from maximum EHP I think that is far from buff.
Good thing that they're not doing that then.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#86 - 2012-08-02 20:02:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
Tippia wrote:
Good thing that they're not doing that then.


Maximum EHP will be 22k instead of 29k before fleet boost/overheating.

That's ~25% reduction.

In case you haven't noticed on SiSi:
- All exhumers will have T1 resists instead of T2 resists
- Shield resists bonus is reduced from 7,5% to 5% per level
- Hulk's raw HP is reduced

So, it's good for you gankers.
Pipa Porto
#87 - 2012-08-02 20:14:41 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Good thing that they're not doing that then.


Maximum EHP will be 22k instead of 29k before fleet boost/overheating.

That's ~25% reduction.

In case you haven't noticed on SiSi:
- All exhumers will have T1 resists instead of T2 resists
- Shield resists bonus is reduced from 7,5% to 5% per level
- Hulk's raw HP is reduced

So, it's good for you gankers.


If you're too lazy to make yourself safe from ganks through some other method than tanking, the Hulk isn't the right ship for you.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#88 - 2012-08-02 20:29:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
In case you haven't noticed on SiSi:
- All exhumers will have T1 resists instead of T2 resists
- Shield resists bonus is reduced from 7,5% to 5% per level
- Hulk's raw HP is reduced
Jesus. Learn to read stats, ffs. Roll

On Sisi:
Armour: 1800 HP, 60/10/25/35 resist → 2917 omni EHP.
Shield: 2200 HP, 0/50/40/20 base resists, 25/62.5/55/40 actual resists (w/ mandatory skills) → 4338 omni EHP.
Hull: 2000 HP → 2000 EHP
∑ 9255 base EHP

On TQ:
Armour: 1013 HP, 60/10/25/35 resists → 1641 omni EHP
Shield: 1519 HP, 37.5/65/62.5/50 actual resists (skill bonuses included in base numbers) → 3464 omni EHP.
Hull: 2531 HP → 2531 EHP
∑ 7636 base EHP

See that comment in the parentheses? That's where you failed to know how the game works this time.


You really never tire of being completely and utterly wrong about every last thing you say, don't you? Lol
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#89 - 2012-08-02 21:02:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Lin-Young Borovskova
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Good thing that they're not doing that then.


Maximum EHP will be 22k instead of 29k before fleet boost/overheating.

That's ~25% reduction.

In case you haven't noticed on SiSi:
- All exhumers will have T1 resists instead of T2 resists
- Shield resists bonus is reduced from 7,5% to 5% per level
- Hulk's raw HP is reduced

So, it's good for you gankers.



You actually can fit more tank mods (or at least stronger) on SISI T2 strips and be cap stable, from memory I had 2 invulns 1 Em passive 1 T2 med SE 2 MSE rigs but could only fit 1 MLU (last slot empty needed an implant or maybe change 1 rig for + cpu)
Thing is that again, from memory, I could get about 28k EHP with a very high resist profile above 83 across the board.

If you factor some implants and orca boost you get about 32 or 35K EHP I guess witch should be enough when in fleets but tricky if you decide to do your lonely cowboy with your hulk.

@Tipia: thx for those numbers, indeed my build must be bad at some point so indeed there's not much to do about Hulk except I couldn't fit a second MLU but it's also probably related to skills

brb
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#90 - 2012-08-02 21:19:49 UTC
Tippia wrote:
On TQ:
Armour: 1013 HP, 60/10/25/35 resists → 1641 omni EHP
Shield: 1519 HP, 37.5/65/62.5/50 actual resists (skill bonuses included in base numbers) → 3464 omni EHP.
Hull: 2531 HP → 2531 EHP
∑ 7636 base EHP


9145
MIrple
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#91 - 2012-08-02 21:22:36 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Tippia wrote:
On TQ:
Armour: 1013 HP, 60/10/25/35 resists → 1641 omni EHP
Shield: 1519 HP, 37.5/65/62.5/50 actual resists (skill bonuses included in base numbers) → 3464 omni EHP.
Hull: 2531 HP → 2531 EHP
∑ 7636 base EHP


9145


I think the number she is posting is before your skills are applied to it. I could be wrong though
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#92 - 2012-08-02 21:28:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
MIrple wrote:
I think the number she is posting is before your skills are applied to it. I could be wrong though
Yes. Those are the base numbers.

What's tripping Jorma up is the old-style T2 resist bonuses, which on old ships were included in full in the base stats (since you had to have the bonus-giving skill at V to be able to fly the ship — much easier to just “bake” that unavoidable full bonus into the stats than having to calculate them each time). With the new ships, the base stats are actually the base stats, but the resist bonuses are just as unavoidable.

The old Hulk had a base EM shield resist of 37.5%; the new Hulk has a base EM shield resist of 25%. The former is reflected in the stats on the the ship's info card; the latter is not. If anything, the new stats are more sensible, since they don't give the illusion that you get another set of resist bonuses on top of the already-bonused resists.

In addition…
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
9145
…even if you pick the wrong numbers, it's still less than the new Hulk has, so to reiterate the point: they have not taken 25% off the tank. Quite the opposite.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#93 - 2012-08-02 21:30:26 UTC
MIrple wrote:
I think the number she is posting is before your skills are applied to it. I could be wrong though


So, why I get only 22k EHP with this fit on SiSi? I'm asking because if Hulk is getting EHP buff then it should be way over 30k.

[Hulk, Tank Fit]

Damage Control II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II

Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
MIrple
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#94 - 2012-08-02 21:33:16 UTC
because of your EM hole atm try putting on a EM hardener and see the numbers change
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#95 - 2012-08-02 21:34:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
MIrple wrote:
because of your EM hole atm try putting on a EM hardener and see the numbers change


That fit is 29,5k EHP on live server. So, it should have higher EHP on test server.

26136 EHP against Scorch, not 22k.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#96 - 2012-08-02 21:39:45 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
So, why I get only 22k EHP with this fit on SiSi?
Because you're reading it from the fitting screen?
MIrple
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#97 - 2012-08-02 21:41:10 UTC
I am not able to log into Sisi atm to tell you. I made a fit on that that had 1MLU2 on it that had 22k ehp so I feel this is a fair set up. I will post later tonight when I have a change to look into this.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#98 - 2012-08-02 22:01:44 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
So, why I get only 22k EHP with this fit on SiSi?
Because you're reading it from the fitting screen?


Oh, yeah... 23,8k

http://koti.mbnet.fi/raid/forthedrop.jpg
Pipa Porto
#99 - 2012-08-02 22:08:04 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
So, why I get only 22k EHP with this fit on SiSi?
Because you're reading it from the fitting screen?


Oh, yeah... 23,8k

http://koti.mbnet.fi/raid/forthedrop.jpg


The Fitting Screen doesn't let you adjust damage profiles. So it's fairly useless for figuring out the Effective HP you'd have against certain attacks.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#100 - 2012-08-02 22:10:53 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
The Fitting Screen doesn't let you adjust damage profiles. So it's fairly useless for figuring out the Effective HP you'd have against certain attacks.


Do you even know what omni damage means?

29,5k (25/25/25/25)
23,8k (25/25/25/25)