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Capitals in FW

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Capitol One
Blue Canary
Watch This
#1 - 2012-08-02 17:35:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Capitol One
Quote:
CCP Ytterbium: ”Something I really don't like in Factional Warfare, is just the capital hot drop. To me it has nothing to do with what Factional Warfare is supposed to do.”


Completely disagree, capital ships as a force multiplier or used as escalation is an integral part of FW.
The opinion that Faction Warfare has to be cheap and lopsided is a bit shortsighted.

I should be allowed to excel and use every ship and mechanic possible to reach my goals or for my own enjoyment as part of FW. Don't force me to fly merlins and hurricanes when I want to fly a bhaalgorn with Triage support.

We already have Plex combat with limits on what ships can enter and cynos can't be lit inside the deadspace, so if people want to fight away from the hotdrop they can fight inside/on the plex.

Big battleship brawls with several Triage caps and dreads dropped to counter them is some of the most exciting engagements players experience in FW, don't take that away from us.

--

On a related note, the Cyno-jammer, if brought to FW it should be a destroyable entity and not a part of a systems upgrade in the ihub. For example, the Minmatar Militia own a system and a big fight is brewing. They make the right call and bring in their caps and activate the cyno jammer. In order for the Amarr fleet to compete with the superior Minmatar forces, destruction of the cyno-jammer is paramount to counter the enemy caps.

Just my humble opinion from reading some of the CSM Summit minutes.

- Cap

Edit: for typos.

Edit2: Another idea regarding the cyno-jammer was brought up that it could only affect neutral parties, allowing Cap ships that are a part of FW to jump into the "jammed" system.
Duke Dantez
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2012-08-02 17:42:13 UTC
No one is taking capital ships from you except us :)

http://triad-eve.net/killboard/?a=kill_related&kll_id=17270

You guys have two dozen of our systems set to vulnerable, go ahead, drop your shiny ships.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#3 - 2012-08-02 17:44:08 UTC
Capitol One wrote:
Quote:
CCP Ytterbium: ”Something I really don't like in Factional Warfare, is just the capital hot drop. To me it has nothing to do with what Factional Warfare is supposed to do.”


Completely disagree, capital ships as a force multiplier or used as escalation is an integral part of FW.
The opinion that Faction Warfare has to be cheap and lopsided is a bit shortsighted.

I should be allowed to excel and use every ship and mechanic possible to reach my goals or for my own enjoyment as part of FW. Don't force me to fly merlins and hurricanes when I want to fly a bhaalgorn with Triage support.

We already have Plex combat with limits on what ships can enter and cynos can't be lit inside the deadspace, so if people want to fight away from the hotdrop they can fight inside/on the plex.

Big battleship brawls with several Triage caps and dreads dropped to counter them is some of the most exciting engagements players experience in FW, don't take that away from us.

--

On a related note, the Cyno-jammer, if brought to FW it should be a destroyable entity and not a part of a systems upgrade in the ihub. For example, the Minmatar Militia own a system and a big fight is brewing. They make the right call and bring in their caps and activate the cyno jammer. In order for the Amarr fleet to compete with the superior Minmatar forces, destruction of the cyno-jammer is paramount to counter the enemy caps.

Just my humble opinion from reading some of the CSM Summit minutes.

- Cap

Edit: for typos.


Actually I think Ytterbium is 100% spot on. It's clear from gate restrictions and the relatively small (for a structure) amount of HP IHubs have that FW is meant to be conducted by smaller groups who don't necessarily have the infrastructure or capital to field blobs of Titans and Dreadnaughts.

It sounds like you would have more fun in a NullSec group than you would in Factional Warfare, TBQH with you about it.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Vordak Kallager
Descendance.
GoonSwarm.
#4 - 2012-08-02 17:46:50 UTC
Capitol One wrote:
Quote:
CCP Ytterbium: ”Something I really don't like in Factional Warfare, is just the capital hot drop. To me it has nothing to do with what Factional Warfare is supposed to do.”


Completely disagree, capital ships as a force multiplier or used as escalation is an integral part of FW.
The opinion that Faction Warfare has to be cheap and lopsided is a bit shortsighted.

I should be allowed to excel and use every ship and mechanic possible to reach my goals or for my own enjoyment as part of FW. Don't force me to fly merlins and hurricanes when I want to fly a bhaalgorn with Triage support.

We already have Plex combat with limits on what ships can enter and cynos can't be lit inside the deadspace, so if people want to fight away from the hotdrop they can fight inside/on the plex.

Big battleship brawls with several Triage caps and dreads dropped to counter them is some of the most exciting engagements players experience in FW, don't take that away from us.

--

On a related note, the Cyno-jammer, if brought to FW it should be a destroyable entity and not a part of a systems upgrade in the ihub. For example, the Minmatar Militia own a system and a big fight is brewing. They make the right call and bring in their caps and activate the cyno jammer. In order for the Amarr fleet to compete with the superior Minmatar forces, destruction of the cyno-jammer is paramount to counter the enemy caps.

Just my humble opinion from reading some of the CSM Summit minutes.

- Cap

Edit: for typos.


On the Cyno Jammer Idea:

What if this was some sort of SBU-like module anchorable on grid with the system's I-HUB, bought from the LP store. Only one would be anchorable at any given time and once online, it would last maybe an hour or 30 minutes or something with a single time use. It would have a certain amount of EHP and could be attacked by the enemy militia (or maybe any party?) without entering any kind of RF. Maybe it would also be able to receive Remote Repair?

Idk, just throwing thoughts out there.

Sa souvraya niende misain ye.
Capitol One
Blue Canary
Watch This
#5 - 2012-08-02 17:48:27 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
Capitol One wrote:
Quote:
CCP Ytterbium: ”Something I really don't like in Factional Warfare, is just the capital hot drop. To me it has nothing to do with what Factional Warfare is supposed to do.”


Completely disagree, capital ships as a force multiplier or used as escalation is an integral part of FW.
The opinion that Faction Warfare has to be cheap and lopsided is a bit shortsighted.

I should be allowed to excel and use every ship and mechanic possible to reach my goals or for my own enjoyment as part of FW. Don't force me to fly merlins and hurricanes when I want to fly a bhaalgorn with Triage support.

We already have Plex combat with limits on what ships can enter and cynos can't be lit inside the deadspace, so if people want to fight away from the hotdrop they can fight inside/on the plex.

Big battleship brawls with several Triage caps and dreads dropped to counter them is some of the most exciting engagements players experience in FW, don't take that away from us.

--

On a related note, the Cyno-jammer, if brought to FW it should be a destroyable entity and not a part of a systems upgrade in the ihub. For example, the Minmatar Militia own a system and a big fight is brewing. They make the right call and bring in their caps and activate the cyno jammer. In order for the Amarr fleet to compete with the superior Minmatar forces, destruction of the cyno-jammer is paramount to counter the enemy caps.

Just my humble opinion from reading some of the CSM Summit minutes.

- Cap

Edit: for typos.


Actually I think Ytterbium is 100% spot on. It's clear from gate restrictions and the relatively small (for a structure) amount of HP IHubs have that FW is meant to be conducted by smaller groups who don't necessarily have the infrastructure or capital to field blobs of Titans and Dreadnaughts.

It sounds like you would have more fun in a NullSec group than you would in Factional Warfare, TBQH with you about it.


Nullsec doesn't interest me at all, except for the occasional roam/gank. My place is in FW, I've been a part of it since '10 and have no inclination to leave, it's my favourite part of the game and my playstyle should not be limited just because "Caps belong in nullsec". That's a ****** reason, you see caps fighting in lowsec/wormhole space all the time. Some of the coolest content provided by Rooks and Kings happens in lowsec quite a bit.

FW being primarily a lowsec venture, and with capital engagement being a big thing in lowsec, why should FW be any different?
Capitol One
Blue Canary
Watch This
#6 - 2012-08-02 17:49:02 UTC
Vordak Kallager wrote:
Capitol One wrote:
Quote:
CCP Ytterbium: ”Something I really don't like in Factional Warfare, is just the capital hot drop. To me it has nothing to do with what Factional Warfare is supposed to do.”


Completely disagree, capital ships as a force multiplier or used as escalation is an integral part of FW.
The opinion that Faction Warfare has to be cheap and lopsided is a bit shortsighted.

I should be allowed to excel and use every ship and mechanic possible to reach my goals or for my own enjoyment as part of FW. Don't force me to fly merlins and hurricanes when I want to fly a bhaalgorn with Triage support.

We already have Plex combat with limits on what ships can enter and cynos can't be lit inside the deadspace, so if people want to fight away from the hotdrop they can fight inside/on the plex.

Big battleship brawls with several Triage caps and dreads dropped to counter them is some of the most exciting engagements players experience in FW, don't take that away from us.

--

On a related note, the Cyno-jammer, if brought to FW it should be a destroyable entity and not a part of a systems upgrade in the ihub. For example, the Minmatar Militia own a system and a big fight is brewing. They make the right call and bring in their caps and activate the cyno jammer. In order for the Amarr fleet to compete with the superior Minmatar forces, destruction of the cyno-jammer is paramount to counter the enemy caps.

Just my humble opinion from reading some of the CSM Summit minutes.

- Cap

Edit: for typos.


On the Cyno Jammer Idea:

What if this was some sort of SBU-like module anchorable on grid with the system's I-HUB, bought from the LP store. Only one would be anchorable at any given time and once online, it would last maybe an hour or 30 minutes or something with a single time use. It would have a certain amount of EHP and could be attacked by the enemy militia (or maybe any party?) without entering any kind of RF. Maybe it would also be able to receive Remote Repair?

Idk, just throwing thoughts out there.



That sounds pretty reasonable, +1
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#7 - 2012-08-02 17:49:57 UTC
Speaking of cynojammers I want to see militia bubbles. Yes, that's right, militia bubbles.

You buy them with LP.

You need a certain standing to anchor them.

The only last x amount of time.

They have a limited size.

They only work in specific FW systems.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#8 - 2012-08-02 17:54:00 UTC
Capitol One wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
Capitol One wrote:
Quote:
CCP Ytterbium: ”Something I really don't like in Factional Warfare, is just the capital hot drop. To me it has nothing to do with what Factional Warfare is supposed to do.”


Completely disagree, capital ships as a force multiplier or used as escalation is an integral part of FW.
The opinion that Faction Warfare has to be cheap and lopsided is a bit shortsighted.

I should be allowed to excel and use every ship and mechanic possible to reach my goals or for my own enjoyment as part of FW. Don't force me to fly merlins and hurricanes when I want to fly a bhaalgorn with Triage support.

We already have Plex combat with limits on what ships can enter and cynos can't be lit inside the deadspace, so if people want to fight away from the hotdrop they can fight inside/on the plex.

Big battleship brawls with several Triage caps and dreads dropped to counter them is some of the most exciting engagements players experience in FW, don't take that away from us.

--

On a related note, the Cyno-jammer, if brought to FW it should be a destroyable entity and not a part of a systems upgrade in the ihub. For example, the Minmatar Militia own a system and a big fight is brewing. They make the right call and bring in their caps and activate the cyno jammer. In order for the Amarr fleet to compete with the superior Minmatar forces, destruction of the cyno-jammer is paramount to counter the enemy caps.

Just my humble opinion from reading some of the CSM Summit minutes.

- Cap

Edit: for typos.


Actually I think Ytterbium is 100% spot on. It's clear from gate restrictions and the relatively small (for a structure) amount of HP IHubs have that FW is meant to be conducted by smaller groups who don't necessarily have the infrastructure or capital to field blobs of Titans and Dreadnaughts.

It sounds like you would have more fun in a NullSec group than you would in Factional Warfare, TBQH with you about it.


Nullsec doesn't interest me at all, except for the occasional roam/gank. My place is in FW, I've been a part of it since '10 and have no inclination to leave, it's my favourite part of the game and my playstyle should not be limited just because "Caps belong in nullsec". That's a ****** reason, you see caps fighting in lowsec/wormhole space all the time. Some of the coolest content provided by Rooks and Kings happens in lowsec quite a bit.

FW being primarily a lowsec venture, and with capital engagement being a big thing in lowsec, why should FW be any different?


Yeah why should your playstyle be limited by the choices you make. That sounds like "consequences" and that's just not what EVE is about, amirite? Roll

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#9 - 2012-08-02 17:57:47 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
I completely agree with Yttr, hot drops in FW are ghey. However, am having a hard time not wanting to drop dreads on bunkers. We've got to take another 45+ of these things and without dreads it is a soul sucking experience. 1.2k LP for my sanity (40k LP shared among fleet members)? Way too low. Moar bunker LP!
Capitol One
Blue Canary
Watch This
#10 - 2012-08-02 17:59:27 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
Capitol One wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
Capitol One wrote:
Quote:
CCP Ytterbium: ”Something I really don't like in Factional Warfare, is just the capital hot drop. To me it has nothing to do with what Factional Warfare is supposed to do.”


Completely disagree, capital ships as a force multiplier or used as escalation is an integral part of FW.
The opinion that Faction Warfare has to be cheap and lopsided is a bit shortsighted.

I should be allowed to excel and use every ship and mechanic possible to reach my goals or for my own enjoyment as part of FW. Don't force me to fly merlins and hurricanes when I want to fly a bhaalgorn with Triage support.

We already have Plex combat with limits on what ships can enter and cynos can't be lit inside the deadspace, so if people want to fight away from the hotdrop they can fight inside/on the plex.

Big battleship brawls with several Triage caps and dreads dropped to counter them is some of the most exciting engagements players experience in FW, don't take that away from us.

--

On a related note, the Cyno-jammer, if brought to FW it should be a destroyable entity and not a part of a systems upgrade in the ihub. For example, the Minmatar Militia own a system and a big fight is brewing. They make the right call and bring in their caps and activate the cyno jammer. In order for the Amarr fleet to compete with the superior Minmatar forces, destruction of the cyno-jammer is paramount to counter the enemy caps.

Just my humble opinion from reading some of the CSM Summit minutes.

- Cap

Edit: for typos.


Actually I think Ytterbium is 100% spot on. It's clear from gate restrictions and the relatively small (for a structure) amount of HP IHubs have that FW is meant to be conducted by smaller groups who don't necessarily have the infrastructure or capital to field blobs of Titans and Dreadnaughts.

It sounds like you would have more fun in a NullSec group than you would in Factional Warfare, TBQH with you about it.


Nullsec doesn't interest me at all, except for the occasional roam/gank. My place is in FW, I've been a part of it since '10 and have no inclination to leave, it's my favourite part of the game and my playstyle should not be limited just because "Caps belong in nullsec". That's a ****** reason, you see caps fighting in lowsec/wormhole space all the time. Some of the coolest content provided by Rooks and Kings happens in lowsec quite a bit.

FW being primarily a lowsec venture, and with capital engagement being a big thing in lowsec, why should FW be any different?


Yeah why should your playstyle be limited by the choices you make. That sounds like "consequences" and that's just not what EVE is about, amirite? Roll


The point is that Caps have been a part of FW for as long as I've been here (and longer), they're a huge thing in lowsec in general and a great part of the game and drama that is FW (who doesn't love the epeen threads when the opposing faction loses a cap fleet).

Your "consequence" would have my rather fly stabbed merlins and rifters instead of expensive ships engaging in interesting combat that brings a lot of players in FW together in one big brawl.

But I guess you're so used to your rifters you can't comprehend anything beyond them.
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings
#11 - 2012-08-02 17:59:57 UTC
Lowsec bubbles are a terrible idea. Do not want.

I think the idea of militia cynojammers being a one-shot/limited duration thing is a good idea. Or make it so they only block supercapitals and titan bridges. Or something.
Capitol One
Blue Canary
Watch This
#12 - 2012-08-02 18:01:55 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
I completely agree with Yttr, hot drops in FW are ghey. However, am having a hard time not wanting to drop dreads on bunkers. We've got to take another 45+ of these things and without dreads it is a soul sucking experience. 1.2k LP for my sanity (40k LP shared among fleet members)? Way too low. Moar bunker LP!


I've noticed you're something of an excellent frigate pilot, preferring small scale combat.

I think that's fantastic and a part of FW and the hotdrop doesn't affect you much.

However removing caps from FW would be for me the same as removing all frigate combat from FW to you. Horrible and not very fun.

Edit: typo
Capitol One
Blue Canary
Watch This
#13 - 2012-08-02 18:04:44 UTC
Milton Middleson wrote:
Lowsec bubbles are a terrible idea. Do not want.

I think the idea of militia cynojammers being a one-shot/limited duration thing is a good idea. Or make it so they only block supercapitals and titan bridges. Or something.


Agree with the bubble thing, terrible idea.

And also yes, the general idea with the "short duration" cyno-jammer is to prevent the "always on the horizon" Super hotdrop of larger nullsec entities interfering with the relatively smaller scale capital combat that happens on our turf.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#14 - 2012-08-02 18:09:56 UTC
Capitol One wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
I completely agree with Yttr, hot drops in FW are ghey. However, am having a hard time not wanting to drop dreads on bunkers. We've got to take another 45+ of these things and without dreads it is a soul sucking experience. 1.2k LP for my sanity (40k LP shared among fleet members)? Way too low. Moar bunker LP!


I've noticed you're something of an excellent frigate pilot, preferring small scale combat.

I think that's fantastic and a part of FW and the hotdrop doesn't affect you much.

However removing caps from FW would be for me the same as removing all frigate combat from FW to you. Horrible and not very fun. Edit: typo
There's plenty of ways to avoid caps in FW - fleet fights near plexes where hotdrops won't work, etc... I was really just using this thread to whine about the soul sucking experience of bunker busting with subcap ships. In any case, Dreads/Carriers are fine. The use of super caps either ought to be limited to 0.0, or players should be able to build them in low sec. But that's not a FW issue. That's an "entire low sec" issue.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#15 - 2012-08-02 18:11:33 UTC
Capitol One wrote:
Your "consequence" would have my rather fly stabbed merlins and rifters instead of expensive ships engaging in interesting combat that brings a lot of players in FW together in one big brawl.

But I guess you're so used to your rifters you can't comprehend anything beyond them.


You've presented a false dichotomy my friend. We have more choices than "YAY CAPITAL BLOB" and "Frigate Fleet". There's a whole range of possibilities in-between.

I fly Firetails and the occasional Wolf. I'm in the process of training up Hybrid Turrets so I can start flying Merlins and perhaps Harpies, although I am excited to start training my missile skills once I get Turret Control: Elite.


Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Almity
In Exile.
#16 - 2012-08-02 18:19:33 UTC
On the TEN pod cast some Gal pilot said the same thing and I disagreed with him pretty hard. FW is much more than thrashers in minor plexes. If I want to risk my triage or dread in a fight I should damn well be able to. There has only been one Capital fight in the US tz amarr/minmatar front since inferno(that I know of). They don't happen all the time but when they do people have a blast.
Capitol One
Blue Canary
Watch This
#17 - 2012-08-02 18:20:21 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
Capitol One wrote:
Your "consequence" would have my rather fly stabbed merlins and rifters instead of expensive ships engaging in interesting combat that brings a lot of players in FW together in one big brawl.

But I guess you're so used to your rifters you can't comprehend anything beyond them.


You've presented a false dichotomy my friend. We have more choices than "YAY CAPITAL BLOB" and "Frigate Fleet". There's a whole range of possibilities in-between.

I fly Firetails and the occasional Wolf. I'm in the process of training up Hybrid Turrets so I can start flying Merlins and perhaps Harpies, although I am excited to start training my missile skills once I get Turret Control: Elite.




Fair point, I might've been overly eager in my reply.

However my point still stands, limiting FW to only subcaps is just a terrible handicap. I mean we live in lowsec for crying out loud, this isn't RvB. What am I supposed to do when I see a pirate cap fleet deploy in my surrounding area? Go whine on the forums about it or actually get to drop a few dreads and Faction BS with Triage support on them and show'em who's boss!

To summarize: FW is many things. It's frigate combat and elusive 1v1 battles ranging to cruiser and bc brawls inside plexes to the bigger BS fights with caps when things get more serious.

Don't force FW pilots to become handicapped because "hotdrop is bad", there are ways around the hotdrop and even still, you're flying in lowsec ... the hotdrop is always a threat, be it from FW corps, Pirate corps or nullsec groups.
Almity
In Exile.
#18 - 2012-08-02 18:21:35 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
Capitol One wrote:
Your "consequence" would have my rather fly stabbed merlins and rifters instead of expensive ships engaging in interesting combat that brings a lot of players in FW together in one big brawl.

But I guess you're so used to your rifters you can't comprehend anything beyond them.


You've presented a false dichotomy my friend. We have more choices than "YAY CAPITAL BLOB" and "Frigate Fleet". There's a whole range of possibilities in-between.

I fly Firetails and the occasional Wolf. I'm in the process of training up Hybrid Turrets so I can start flying Merlins and perhaps Harpies, although I am excited to start training my missile skills once I get Turret Control: Elite.





Your firetale or wolf has little to worry about when the caps start comming out. Why are you even in this discussion if thats all you fly?
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#19 - 2012-08-02 18:24:52 UTC
Almity wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
Capitol One wrote:
Your "consequence" would have my rather fly stabbed merlins and rifters instead of expensive ships engaging in interesting combat that brings a lot of players in FW together in one big brawl.

But I guess you're so used to your rifters you can't comprehend anything beyond them.


You've presented a false dichotomy my friend. We have more choices than "YAY CAPITAL BLOB" and "Frigate Fleet". There's a whole range of possibilities in-between.

I fly Firetails and the occasional Wolf. I'm in the process of training up Hybrid Turrets so I can start flying Merlins and perhaps Harpies, although I am excited to start training my missile skills once I get Turret Control: Elite.





Your firetale or wolf has little to worry about when the caps start comming out. Why are you even in this discussion if thats all you fly?


Because I'm a Factional Warfare pilot and we're talking about Factional Warfare.











































Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#20 - 2012-08-02 18:28:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Xuixien
Capitol One wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
Capitol One wrote:
Your "consequence" would have my rather fly stabbed merlins and rifters instead of expensive ships engaging in interesting combat that brings a lot of players in FW together in one big brawl.

But I guess you're so used to your rifters you can't comprehend anything beyond them.


You've presented a false dichotomy my friend. We have more choices than "YAY CAPITAL BLOB" and "Frigate Fleet". There's a whole range of possibilities in-between.

I fly Firetails and the occasional Wolf. I'm in the process of training up Hybrid Turrets so I can start flying Merlins and perhaps Harpies, although I am excited to start training my missile skills once I get Turret Control: Elite.




Fair point, I might've been overly eager in my reply.

However my point still stands, limiting FW to only subcaps is just a terrible handicap. I mean we live in lowsec for crying out loud, this isn't RvB. What am I supposed to do when I see a pirate cap fleet deploy in my surrounding area? Go whine on the forums about it or actually get to drop a few dreads and Faction BS with Triage support on them and show'em who's boss!

To summarize: FW is many things. It's frigate combat and elusive 1v1 battles ranging to cruiser and bc brawls inside plexes to the bigger BS fights with caps when things get more serious.

Don't force FW pilots to become handicapped because "hotdrop is bad", there are ways around the hotdrop and even still, you're flying in lowsec ... the hotdrop is always a threat, be it from FW corps, Pirate corps or nullsec groups.


Wouldn't the pirates by limited by the same restrictions as you?

I'm not trying to say "NO CAPS EVER", and the cynojammer seems like a good compensation. But the last thing I want to see is FW to become some big blobby capital fight where only capitals become relevant. If big blobby capital fleets is what you're looking for, again, there are already systems in place for that.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
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