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State of the Caldari Address and LP By the Numbers
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Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#41 - 2012-08-02 16:37:18 UTC
BolsterBomb wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Lexmana wrote:
Amarr given up? What are you smoking. We have finally managed to deploy a strategy that will allow us to hit T5 despite the fact that there are three Minmatar farmers for every Amarr. It is called adapting to the situation. And we are still kicking their ass in head-on battle. Don't worry. It will come to you too.



Bolster Bob understands game strategy about as well as he understands the use of paragraphs.


Amarr are currently using the best strategy in this war. Its a pretty obvious strategy under the rules, but some people will refuse to adapt. I think ccp may very well intended for the underdogs to do exactly what amarr is currently doing.

Some people have decided they want their failed strategies to work, and since they don't, they complain the game is broken. Like you said amarr is adapting kicking ass.




My statement that "Amarr had given up" is in reference to the intial patching of FW. Amar DID give up. Nulli being in Amar space now has changed it. ....


Amarr was losing due to bad strategies. Lots of amarr were trying and the vp totals demonstrate that. But it was just a bad stategy we were using.

Amarr changed their strategies and is now winning the war. Nulli is also using the winning strategy and is speeding things up by a factor of 3 or so but we were winning the war before they came. If nulli came in and used the same bad strategy that the amarr was using at first we would likely be in the same sort of quadmire the caldari and gallente are in.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
BolsterBomb
Perkone
Caldari State
#42 - 2012-08-02 16:40:00 UTC
Cearain wrote:
BolsterBomb wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Lexmana wrote:
Amarr given up? What are you smoking. We have finally managed to deploy a strategy that will allow us to hit T5 despite the fact that there are three Minmatar farmers for every Amarr. It is called adapting to the situation. And we are still kicking their ass in head-on battle. Don't worry. It will come to you too.



Bolster Bob understands game strategy about as well as he understands the use of paragraphs.


Amarr are currently using the best strategy in this war. Its a pretty obvious strategy under the rules, but some people will refuse to adapt. I think ccp may very well intended for the underdogs to do exactly what amarr is currently doing.

Some people have decided they want their failed strategies to work, and since they don't, they complain the game is broken. Like you said amarr is adapting kicking ass.




My statement that "Amarr had given up" is in reference to the intial patching of FW. Amar DID give up. Nulli being in Amar space now has changed it. ....


Amarr was losing due to bad strategies. Lots of amarr were trying and the vp totals demonstrate that. But it was just a bad stategy we were using.

Amarr changed their strategies and is now winning the war. Nulli is also using the winning strategy and is speeding things up by a factor of 3 or so but we were winning the war before they came. If nulli came in and used the same bad strategy that the amarr was using at first we would likely be in the same sort of quadmire the caldari and gallente are in.



so again....your strategy is...........plex .................then flip systems when you have the count


HOW ORIGINAL!



Just stop trolling people and they will stop trolling you. Its that simple.


As I said before the Amarrians gave up which threw all the minnies into Cal systems which in turn allowed gallente to maximize system count. All perfectly within the game mechanics....but your not doing something super special there. You are finally working together..............


Brig General of The Caldari State

"Don" Bolsterbomb

Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#43 - 2012-08-02 16:42:51 UTC
I'm actually impressed.

I gave it 24 hours before Amarr started poking their nose out from behind Nulli's skirt and claiming credit for things Nulli had done.

It actually took 48 hours.

Good show.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#44 - 2012-08-02 16:47:43 UTC
BolsterBomb wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
Cearain wrote:
[quote=Lexmana]Amarr are currently using the best strategy in this war. Its a pretty obvious strategy under the rules, but some people will refuse to adapt. I think ccp may very well intended for the underdogs to do exactly what amarr is currently doing.


You mean hiding in 3 systems until a 1500 man alliance comes to farm?


No I mean the strategy of offensive plexing and not flipping systems just to feed the gunnless minmatar plexers.

Even before nulli came we had about 20 sytems vulnerable, and several more heavilly contested. This was a much better position than we had ever been in. In sum we were turning the war around big time.

Nulli is drastically speeding things up by opening up a second front, no doubt. (But I suspect they are also spending allot of time farming systems that are already vulnerable. Doing that does not really help us race to tier 5) But our strategy of not feeding your gunnless farmers was winning the war for us before nulli came on board. Nulli is playing it smart and continuing with that strategy and its working well.



Wait so your strat is to ......wait for it.............plex and then flip when you have the systems


WOW thats something new Roll



We weren't doing that at first. I know it may seem unbelievable but we would just immediately flip systems right next to the minmatar base. We would then all cheer "yay we flipped raa! We flipped raa!" And then when minmatar would farm it and flip it back in a day or 2 and we would all cry and curse the stars.

After a while of this, amarr did eventually change strategies. And the results have been great and almost immediate. IMO no other militia is playing this plexing game as intelligently and in as organized a manner as the amarr. Caldari will get the benefit of this strategy when we eventually flip and hit tier 5 you will get allot of amarr plexers.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#45 - 2012-08-02 16:49:11 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
I'm actually impressed.

I gave it 24 hours before Amarr started poking their nose out from behind Nulli's skirt and claiming credit for things Nulli had done.

It actually took 48 hours.

Good show.



Your post is off topic and belongs in this thread:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=138973&find=unread

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Generals4
#46 - 2012-08-02 16:50:50 UTC
Cearain wrote:


After a while of this, amarr did eventually change strategies. And the results have been great and almost immediate. IMO no other militia is playing this plexing game as intelligently and in as organized a manner as the amarr. Caldari will get the benefit of this strategy when we eventually flip and hit tier 5 you will get allot of amarr plexers.


You do realize that this brilliant strategy is what the Frogs and Us Great Caldari Statesmen have been doing since very early on? The difference is just that none of both militia can get the other down to 3 system on LP Dump Day. (not a matter of lack of plexing but a lack of bunkerbusting efforts)

_-Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. _
BolsterBomb
Perkone
Caldari State
#47 - 2012-08-02 16:52:41 UTC
Cearain wrote:
[

[quote]


We weren't doing that at first. I know it may seem unbelievable but we would just immediately flip systems right next to the minmatar base. We would then all cheer "yay we flipped raa! We flipped raa!" And then when minmatar would farm it and flip it back in a day or 2 and we would all cry and curse the stars.

After a while of this, amarr did eventually change strategies. And the results have been great and almost immediate. IMO no other militia is playing this plexing game as intelligently and in as organized a manner as the amarr. Caldari will get the benefit of this strategy when we eventually flip and hit tier 5 you will get allot of amarr plexers.




LOL dude it took you guys 3 months to figure this out.........ok come on seriously you're trolling me?

Listen I think its great you guys are getting your house in order, but be real. Do you really think that wasnt what Caldari was doing from the start. Its not hard you guys have just finally stopped being stupid.

Welcome to FW! Congrats! Be successful! Make Isk! Hugs for everyone!

Brig General of The Caldari State

"Don" Bolsterbomb

Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#48 - 2012-08-02 16:55:02 UTC
BolsterBomb wrote:
Cearain wrote:
BolsterBomb wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Lexmana wrote:
Amarr given up? What are you smoking. We have finally managed to deploy a strategy that will allow us to hit T5 despite the fact that there are three Minmatar farmers for every Amarr. It is called adapting to the situation. And we are still kicking their ass in head-on battle. Don't worry. It will come to you too.



Bolster Bob understands game strategy about as well as he understands the use of paragraphs.


Amarr are currently using the best strategy in this war. Its a pretty obvious strategy under the rules, but some people will refuse to adapt. I think ccp may very well intended for the underdogs to do exactly what amarr is currently doing.

Some people have decided they want their failed strategies to work, and since they don't, they complain the game is broken. Like you said amarr is adapting kicking ass.




My statement that "Amarr had given up" is in reference to the intial patching of FW. Amar DID give up. Nulli being in Amar space now has changed it. ....


Amarr was losing due to bad strategies. Lots of amarr were trying and the vp totals demonstrate that. But it was just a bad stategy we were using.

Amarr changed their strategies and is now winning the war. Nulli is also using the winning strategy and is speeding things up by a factor of 3 or so but we were winning the war before they came. If nulli came in and used the same bad strategy that the amarr was using at first we would likely be in the same sort of quadmire the caldari and gallente are in.



so again....your strategy is...........plex .................then flip systems when you have the count


HOW ORIGINAL!



Just stop trolling people and they will stop trolling you. Its that simple.


As I said before the Amarrians gave up ...


You keep saying false things you don't know about. The vp counts will show we were plexing about as much as the minmatar on our front. We were just not plexing smart for a while and we were suffering because of it.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#49 - 2012-08-02 17:03:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
BolsterBomb wrote:
Cearain wrote:
[

[quote]


We weren't doing that at first. I know it may seem unbelievable but we would just immediately flip systems right next to the minmatar base. We would then all cheer "yay we flipped raa! We flipped raa!" And then when minmatar would farm it and flip it back in a day or 2 and we would all cry and curse the stars.

After a while of this, amarr did eventually change strategies. And the results have been great and almost immediate. IMO no other militia is playing this plexing game as intelligently and in as organized a manner as the amarr. Caldari will get the benefit of this strategy when we eventually flip and hit tier 5 you will get allot of amarr plexers.




LOL dude it took you guys 3 months to figure this out.........ok come on seriously you're trolling me?

Listen I think its great you guys are getting your house in order, but be real. Do you really think that wasnt what Caldari was doing from the start. Its not hard you guys have just finally stopped being stupid.

Welcome to FW! Congrats! Be successful! Make Isk! Hugs for everyone!


Inferno hasn't been out for 3 months. But perhaps adding isn't your bag. It took us about a month- maybe a bit more to get this straightened out. And yes some people can be stubborn -even in the amarr militia.

Brother I'm happy for you and other caldari hitting tier 4 - if that is what you are after. Set goals that suit your ability. But I hear a few of the smart players from caldari militia are running amarr alts for amarr lp.

Amarr are interested in hitting tier 5 and we are working our way toward that goal. We are not posting long rants complaining about the tier system because we now understand it and why it will be pretty good for faction war.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Generals4
#50 - 2012-08-02 17:06:13 UTC
Cearain wrote:
BolsterBomb wrote:
Cearain wrote:
[

[quote]


We weren't doing that at first. I know it may seem unbelievable but we would just immediately flip systems right next to the minmatar base. We would then all cheer "yay we flipped raa! We flipped raa!" And then when minmatar would farm it and flip it back in a day or 2 and we would all cry and curse the stars.

After a while of this, amarr did eventually change strategies. And the results have been great and almost immediate. IMO no other militia is playing this plexing game as intelligently and in as organized a manner as the amarr. Caldari will get the benefit of this strategy when we eventually flip and hit tier 5 you will get allot of amarr plexers.




LOL dude it took you guys 3 months to figure this out.........ok come on seriously you're trolling me?

Listen I think its great you guys are getting your house in order, but be real. Do you really think that wasnt what Caldari was doing from the start. Its not hard you guys have just finally stopped being stupid.

Welcome to FW! Congrats! Be successful! Make Isk! Hugs for everyone!


Inferno has been out for 3 months. But perhaps adding isn't your bag. It took us about a month to get this straightened out. And yes some people can be stubborn -even in the amarr militia.

Brother I'm happy for you and other caldari hitting tier 4 - if that is what you are after. Set goals that suit your ability. But I hear a few of the smart players from caldari militia are running amarr alts for amarr lp.

Amarr are interested in hitting tier 5 and we are working our way toward that goal. We are not posting long rants complaining about the tier system because we now understand it and why it will be pretty good for faction war.


I would like to see you get to T5 with the amount of systems we have to take and the winmatar alts capping everywhere.

_-Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. _
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#51 - 2012-08-02 17:07:43 UTC
Cearain wrote:

We weren't doing that at first. I know it may seem unbelievable but we would just immediately flip systems right next to the minmatar base. We would then all cheer "yay we flipped raa! We flipped raa!" And then when minmatar would farm it and flip it back in a day or 2 and we would all cry and curse the stars.


And do you know what's going to happen after Nulli flips all the systems to Amarr?

That's right. You already said it. Minmatar will farm it and flip it back in a day or 2.

Cearain wrote:
Caldari will get the benefit of this strategy when we eventually flip and hit tier 5 you will get allot of amarr plexers.


This just shows how bad the Amarr strategy is: Wait until T5 and then farm? lol! Roll

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#52 - 2012-08-02 17:15:58 UTC
Generals4 wrote:
Cearain wrote:


After a while of this, amarr did eventually change strategies. And the results have been great and almost immediate. IMO no other militia is playing this plexing game as intelligently and in as organized a manner as the amarr. Caldari will get the benefit of this strategy when we eventually flip and hit tier 5 you will get allot of amarr plexers.


You do realize that this brilliant strategy is what the Frogs and Us Great Caldari Statesmen have been doing since very early on? The difference is just that none of both militia can get the other down to 3 system on LP Dump Day. (not a matter of lack of plexing but a lack of bunkerbusting efforts)



I don't think I called the strategy "brilliant." I think its actually pretty obvious, and therefore quite likely what ccp intended. I do agree its more obvious on our front than on the caldari gallente front.

But on your front I don't see why you don't wait until you have enough to hit tier 5. Yes gallente may flip systems to screw you out of tier 5 but that will also screw them when they try to oplex back systems becasue by the time they get enough to hit tier five you will have those systems vulnerable and can do the same to them.

Eventually you guys will do the same. Instead of flipping a few vulnerable systems to screw the other out of tier five one side will eventually just start oplexing the newly flipped systems and hold onto the vulnerable ones so they can hit tier 5 too. It will go back and forth with large cashouts and plenty of ships to blow up in the process. In sum it seems you guys are just being a bit grubby.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Wenron
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#53 - 2012-08-02 17:16:27 UTC
BolsterBomb wrote:


Welcome to FW! Congrats! Be successful! Make Isk! Hugs for everyone!



I like hugs.


Also, since it was implied that certain factions are guilty while others are not, every faction has gunless plex alts. Let's not claim a moral high ground when we all know this. Rather, ask yourself, are you that guy?
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#54 - 2012-08-02 17:26:14 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
Cearain wrote:

We weren't doing that at first. I know it may seem unbelievable but we would just immediately flip systems right next to the minmatar base. We would then all cheer "yay we flipped raa! We flipped raa!" And then when minmatar would farm it and flip it back in a day or 2 and we would all cry and curse the stars.


And do you know what's going to happen after Nulli flips all the systems to Amarr?

That's right. You already said it. Minmatar will farm it and flip it back in a day or 2.


Right. I think what will happen is minmatar will still be moving their stuff out of kourmonen.

But seriously minmatar will need to regroup and organize. If you are smart you will use the same strategy to get back to tier five. Meanwhile I will be defending the amarrian plexes and using the isk I made to shoot allot of you. It will be great.

Xuixien wrote:

Cearain wrote:
Caldari will get the benefit of this strategy when we eventually flip and hit tier 5 you will get allot of amarr plexers.


This just shows how bad the Amarr strategy is: Wait until T5 and then farm? lol! Roll



The fact that caldari will benefit from farmers is not actually part of the strategy. It is just a desirable side effect. Our goal is to hit tier 5. My personal goal is to cash out lp at tier five and then use the isk to shoot allot of minmatar in plexes as they try to flip it back.

You do have it easier than amarr due to the rat imbalance. But your hiding behind ccps skirt is nothing new. Hopefully that imbalance will be fixed sometime in the future.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Andre Vauban
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2012-08-02 17:26:46 UTC
Cearain wrote:

But on your front I don't see why you don't wait until you have enough to hit tier 5. Yes gallente may flip systems to screw you out of tier 5 but that will also screw them when they try to oplex back systems becasue by the time they get enough to hit tier five you will have those systems vulnerable and can do the same to them.

Eventually you guys will do the same. Instead of flipping a few vulnerable systems to screw the other out of tier five one side will eventually just start oplexing the newly flipped systems and hold onto the vulnerable ones so they can hit tier 5 too. It will go back and forth with large cashouts and plenty of ships to blow up in the process. In sum it seems you guys are just being a bit grubby.


There are too many systems on the Gallente/Caldari front. Nobody has been able to take enough systems to hit Tier-5 fast enough. Both sides can get enough vulnerable, but just the ability to bust the bunkers is hard. Once a side can muster a fleet of 50-100 dreads, they can drop 3-4 dreads on every bunker at the same time and pull it off.

.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#56 - 2012-08-02 17:29:12 UTC
Generals4 wrote:
Cearain wrote:
BolsterBomb wrote:
Cearain wrote:
[

[quote]


We weren't doing that at first. I know it may seem unbelievable but we would just immediately flip systems right next to the minmatar base. We would then all cheer "yay we flipped raa! We flipped raa!" And then when minmatar would farm it and flip it back in a day or 2 and we would all cry and curse the stars.

After a while of this, amarr did eventually change strategies. And the results have been great and almost immediate. IMO no other militia is playing this plexing game as intelligently and in as organized a manner as the amarr. Caldari will get the benefit of this strategy when we eventually flip and hit tier 5 you will get allot of amarr plexers.




LOL dude it took you guys 3 months to figure this out.........ok come on seriously you're trolling me?

Listen I think its great you guys are getting your house in order, but be real. Do you really think that wasnt what Caldari was doing from the start. Its not hard you guys have just finally stopped being stupid.

Welcome to FW! Congrats! Be successful! Make Isk! Hugs for everyone!


Inferno has been out for 3 months. But perhaps adding isn't your bag. It took us about a month to get this straightened out. And yes some people can be stubborn -even in the amarr militia.

Brother I'm happy for you and other caldari hitting tier 4 - if that is what you are after. Set goals that suit your ability. But I hear a few of the smart players from caldari militia are running amarr alts for amarr lp.

Amarr are interested in hitting tier 5 and we are working our way toward that goal. We are not posting long rants complaining about the tier system because we now understand it and why it will be pretty good for faction war.


I would like to see you get to T5 with the amount of systems we have to take and the winmatar alts capping everywhere.


I doubt they are capping defensive plexes. See my post above.

Yes you have to cap more plexes but you also can leave more plexes uncapped. I think I would prefer your front. Both sides need to cap 80% of the systems.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#57 - 2012-08-02 17:31:26 UTC
Andre Vauban wrote:
Cearain wrote:

But on your front I don't see why you don't wait until you have enough to hit tier 5. Yes gallente may flip systems to screw you out of tier 5 but that will also screw them when they try to oplex back systems becasue by the time they get enough to hit tier five you will have those systems vulnerable and can do the same to them.

Eventually you guys will do the same. Instead of flipping a few vulnerable systems to screw the other out of tier five one side will eventually just start oplexing the newly flipped systems and hold onto the vulnerable ones so they can hit tier 5 too. It will go back and forth with large cashouts and plenty of ships to blow up in the process. In sum it seems you guys are just being a bit grubby.


There are too many systems on the Gallente/Caldari front. Nobody has been able to take enough systems to hit Tier-5 fast enough. Both sides can get enough vulnerable, but just the ability to bust the bunkers is hard. Once a side can muster a fleet of 50-100 dreads, they can drop 3-4 dreads on every bunker at the same time and pull it off.


Why use a dread when you can do the same thing with a couple Tier3 BCs and a few battleships?

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#58 - 2012-08-02 17:32:15 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Our goal is to hit tier 5. My personal goal is to cash out lp at tier five and then use the isk to shoot allot of minmatar in plexes as they try to flip it back.


Yes, just remember to farm before you hit Tier5, because once those systems flip you know they're just gonna flip right back.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
BolsterBomb
Perkone
Caldari State
#59 - 2012-08-02 17:32:31 UTC
Cearain thank you for derailing what I hoped to be a productive post.....


Does anyone have any thoughts on the ISK to LP value and the isk per hour I stated?

Brig General of The Caldari State

"Don" Bolsterbomb

Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation
Wenron
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#60 - 2012-08-02 17:40:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Wenron
BolsterBomb wrote:
Cearain thank you for derailing what I hoped to be a productive post.....


Does anyone have any thoughts on the ISK to LP value and the isk per hour I stated?



I think you may be able to get better isk/lp. I know some guys are getting 8k at t5 (would be 4k At t4). I get 4k at t5 but I am both bad at markets and lazy.

I also think that missions give better lp/hr at the expense of giving up some pew possibilities. But then you could argue that better efficiency getting lp would leave more time dedicated to pew pew.