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with all the things to talk about with this change, you choose semantics?

Effect.


Just cyan.

<3

Yeah, he did to say, he was going for a certain price, rather then a bottoming out of the market. Makes sense, that would lead to a smoother transition to ring mining. Be wierd to bottom the market out, then introduce mining.

Also one more question if ya don't mind.

So is it the opinion of the goons, that tech moons, were stupid, but not boring? Or to say, you guys still enjoy them as an activity? It does seems Fonzie is helping to reduce the stupidity of the tech moons, but wan't sure if they were old still or boring. (But suppose with upcoming ring mining, tech moons being older or boring would help that transition too.)

Yeah I suppose tech moons, could be called inspiring really. It seems hard to be equally inspiring with small gangs. Besides the inspiring, trip up the big blocs. Its just that is too much of a dead end to support, it would be fun don't get me wrong. I just don't view big things as eternal or renewable really enough to be inspired by it.

Even ring mining would be blob warfare or somthing. smaller alliance would have less miners, and less defenders still. Of course maybe more raw turn over from it, and seeing which corps burned out, would be fun.

I just like the idea, or doing more to get tech, then just sitting up a pos and watching it tick off. Entertaining for some but boring to others. I suppose there is more to tech, then that. Like fighting to get the space then defense of it. But sometimes I look at tech too much, like its a profession and it seems a bit boring. (Professions like marketing or missioning, invention, or mining)

EDIT: Huh, just learned saved draft, doesn't keep formatting saved. suppose with hamsters controlling the servers, all we get are notepad saves.

No, it would encourage people to wait for the gang to leave then jump in a couple of carriers to rep it up. Shooting undefended structures isn't fun, shooting capital reps at structures isn't fun. All you get is a reduction in tech output (therefore an increase in price).

Yeah a big pvp activity, becoming a big pve activity, might cause a drag. stagnating markets even more.

I just meant, most people in null aren't motivated too much by pve it seems. So placing pve tech on their shoulders, would just make tech price jump, Until they left, then pve carebears would go down there to ring mine. Then tech price would go down, and ships easier to buy.

Well, there's a delicate balance between making structures vulnerable to small gangs and making them TOO vulnerable and your suggested EHP falls on the too vulnerable side, I think. Something that can be incapped in about a minute means they can hit it and be gone before anyone can react. Another problem is the notification system for important structures being attacked. Unless things have changed, directors in an alliance like us rarely pay attention to mail because they get so much of it (a fact that contributed to us failing to pay out own sov back in Delve, as it happens) and so often times incapped miners would, as a result, stay incapped until someone came to collect their product. And even if the notifications are obvious, Yeep is still totally right here in that it would only cause prices to rise.

The other issue with making the miners something you can target directly is that mining poses are always armed to the teeth, and if you are trying to get fights to happen, "on a pos" is just about the last place a small gang will want to be fighting, and giving them enough EHP to solve all of the above problems just forces the gang to sit on the pos shooting for that much longer...




You clearly are not a resident of null, are you?

The problem with gate camps (other than the fact that you can't maintain them 23/7) is that there is no victory condition for the defenders that is fun. Either you fail and people get past you, or you succeed and nobody comes to fight you. Its exactly the same issue that people advocating a return to freighter convoys run into. On top of the fact that you have to maintain 100% coverage of your gates 100% of the time you have to deal with the fact that a single failure (or even a covert, nullified t3) will undo all your gate camping.

Requiring 23/7 gate camps is stupid much like demanding a return to freighter convoys is stupid.

As to your next point, even before Goonfleet held space my inbox was still full to the point that untl the (not so) recent evemail changes I couldn't even open it. Regardless of the notification issue its still easier to mop up after a small gang than it is to attempt to engage them before they pussy off back to where they came. You can't win against a small gang coming into your space, at best you just don't lose and thats not fun and it won't encourage people to go live in 0.0.

Most of the suggestions I've seen regarding the ability of small gangs to affect 0.0 have revolved around doing lasting damage but I'd much rather see small gangs do serious and wide-ranging damage for as long as they remain active with the effects disappearing when they logged off or left the sovereign space. That way you encourage people to actually come out and fight rather than tidy up afterwards.

Thats a really interesting way of looking at the problem . . .



So instead of making their effect last longer by incapping things that can be cleaned up afterwards, make their effect more annoying while they're there and leave with them . . .

That does sound pretty good, but I have two problems with that

1. this still doesnt make people use and defend the space they "control" this change would have little to no effect on alliances who use the space for the moons it gives them and deploy their fleet elsewhere

2. I dont have any idea what this would look like, a small enemy group already shuts down any mining/ratting that goes on in the area they're in.

The only thing I can think of that addresses both ideas is a beacon that can be set up to prevent any bounties from being collected for pirate kills, de-spawns all hidden belts/plexes etc, and prevents moon miners from mining. It would have a radius of 3-4 light-years, be a warpable beacon like a cyno, only last 10-15 minutes, and have basically no tank, like 50,000 EHP

That would certainly cause people to want to get them out of their space.