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FTL travel

First post
Author
Sofa Raddis
Gravity Waste Management
#1 - 2011-10-10 20:33:06 UTC
Moving at light speed is impossible right?

But you don't have to in order to travel faster then light, light follow gravity, stars, planets, dark matter and other things unknown they all bend it right?

So traveling in a straight line without the detours light runs along would be faster then light travel, no?

Nearest star might be right in our backyard when it seems to be way out in the suburbs.



Thought I'd just mention it, don't mock me to hard if I'm way off \ stating the obvious \ repeating others, my education comes from hofmanns lab, I didn't even start high school and I've never read a physics book :p
Louis deGuerre
The Dark Tribe
#2 - 2011-10-10 20:59:59 UTC
You are more or less correct.
These would be called wormholes ( like New Eden ! :)).
You still would not go faster than light but take a shortcut trough space.
Only problem is making one that goes where you want, is stable long enough to travel trough, is not infinitely small in the center (bit hard to squeeze trough). I've been told there are some minor technical hurdles to overcome yet.
Sofa Raddis
Gravity Waste Management
#3 - 2011-10-10 21:07:24 UTC
Actually I was trying to make sense of just that, wormholes!

I dismissed it as this as I don't get where does the actual "hole" part get into the picture? I'd think you'd just need a propolsion system for this? Thought wormholes where really far out sci fi stuff but isn't this really mundane?

I'm new at this xD
Sofa Raddis
Gravity Waste Management
#4 - 2011-10-10 21:13:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Sofa Raddis
sry double post (eve gatefail)
Vicker Lahn'se
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2011-10-10 22:48:54 UTC
General relativity doesn't allow for anything to travel faster than the speed of light. This is referring to light traveling along the same path as the object in question. Obviously a light pulse traveling through a fiber optic cable that loops around the world will take longer to get across your desk than a beam of high energy electrons that are taking a direct path, but this doesn't mean that the electrons are going faster than light. To compare the two, they would need to be taking the same path.

Wormholes, however, get around this rule in an indirect way. Theoretical physicists have predicted that wormholes could exist without breaking the rules of general relativity. Einstein was one of the first to suggest the concept of a wormhole. It's hard to picture what a wormhole is in three dimensions, so instead imagine that the entire universe exists in a two dimensional plane, like a sheet of paper. When you travel between two dots on the paper, you would have to travel all the way across the paper. Now take the paper and roll it up so that the two dots are touching, and sew the two dots together. You can now get from one dot to the other by taking a different path along the paper, via the sewn together portion.

Note that the wormhole thing doesn't violate any of the rules of general relativity because you end up taking a different path. Light taking one path will always go faster than a space ship traveling the same path in question.
Taedrin
Virtues Corporation
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#6 - 2011-10-10 23:24:51 UTC
It should be mentioned that according to our current understanding, wormholes have all sorts of nasty side-effects to them - requiring exotic matter, negative energy densities, being infinitely small, being unable to transport particles with mass through them, etc etc...

MIND YOU: General relativity only expressely forbids massive particles from traveling AT the speed of light, not necessarily traveling faster. FTL particles are called Tachyons and have imaginary mass. Tachyons have higher velocities at lower energies, and lower velocities at higher energies - though never traveling slower than light.

There are other consequences such as causality violations and time travel too.
Claire Katelo
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#7 - 2011-10-10 23:36:04 UTC
faster than light travel is a theoretical reality Alcubierre drive we just have to overcome the technical hurdles to achieve it. We cant travel faster than light does however we can move the end point closer to us thereby getting to the end quicker than light can P
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#8 - 2011-10-11 00:43:41 UTC
It is remotely possible that you can go faster then the speed of light.
Sir Substance
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2011-10-11 05:06:24 UTC
Put in laymans terms, You can't have a dragrace with light and win, but there may be ways to cheat.

The Alcubierre drive, star-trekky though it might sound, has some serious problems with it. The priamry one being that there is no known or predicted way to induce or stop a wave, which means that we don't have the faintest idea how to get it rolling, and once it is rolling we haven't got the faintest idea how to turn the brakes on.

If you ask my predictions, I think its far more likely that we will never develop faster then light travel, and will depend on high acceleration barges and hibernation techniques for commodity and personal transport (ala lighthuggers).

However, I think its extremely likely that we will find a way to make FTL communications.

In a way, we are partway to it now. There is a well founded theory that a bank of lasers could be used to send an elemental particle backwards in time. If you can do that, you can send a message back in time and broadcast it at the appropriate time for it to arrive at its intended destination when you want it to.

Bit of a cheat, but it would probably work.

The beatings will continue until posting improves. -Magnus Cortex

Official Eve Online changelist: Togglable PvP. - Jordanna Bauer

Headerman
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2011-10-11 06:02:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Headerman
IMO, FTL travel is impossible under normal circumstances.

I read somewhere that entering a wormhole is like pushing a boulder up a steep hill towards a cliff, requiring a little more energy to push it over; it requires a lot of energy to make it happen.

Wormholes have been observed to appear and disappear within a CPU, moving electrons about randomly, as the CPU has so much energy in it.

I firmly believe that if there is a String Theory and it is successfully researched and understood, then there will be or there won't be FTL travel possible. If it is possible, then all you have to do is build the object and turn it on and it will work.

it's just bad that there is very little funding into real research into things like that

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Sir Substance
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2011-10-11 06:22:00 UTC
Headerman wrote:

Wormholes have been observed to appear and disappear within a CPU, moving electrons about randomly, as the CPU has so much energy in it.


That's a pretty extraordinary claim. Got a link?

The beatings will continue until posting improves. -Magnus Cortex

Official Eve Online changelist: Togglable PvP. - Jordanna Bauer

Headerman
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2011-10-11 06:28:34 UTC
Will find one

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Kehro Urgus
Dark Nebula Academy
O X I D E
#13 - 2011-10-11 09:09:07 UTC
Headerman wrote:
Will find one



That's why you don't log in anymore?Roll

Yeeee! 

Astenion
Solenus Directive
The Rieos Coalition
#14 - 2011-10-11 09:58:37 UTC
Bartender says: "Sorry, we don't serve particles faster than light."

A neutrino walks into a bar.

Big smile Silly joke of the day.
Taedrin
Virtues Corporation
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#15 - 2011-10-11 17:23:59 UTC
Sir Substance wrote:
Headerman wrote:

Wormholes have been observed to appear and disappear within a CPU, moving electrons about randomly, as the CPU has so much energy in it.


That's a pretty extraordinary claim. Got a link?


He MAY be thinking about quantum tunneling, which has been observed in modern day electronics, and is of particular interest to flash memory.

Wormholes have not been observed ever, and their existence depends upon things which are not known to be permitted by the laws of physics.
Sofa Raddis
Gravity Waste Management
#16 - 2011-10-11 18:33:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Sofa Raddis
interesting replies folks.

Quote:
Alcubierre drive


So.... kinda like ripping open a zipper from the top? Moving without really moving. Hm, yes, you wouldn't stop until you hit something (bottom), that's probably bad....

I was thinking more in lines of a straight line along a curving river, even if it moves at a slower rate than the water, it will get there faster. I know it only works assuming things are closer then they appear (or something to that effect), river might even loop completely around and the destination might be in the exact opposite direction to what you see. The actual execution of this travel would have little to do with propulsion tech, you just need to accurately pinpoint you destination and plot the course in a straight line, disregarding visuality.

Perhaps I'm being abit simple about this Lol
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#17 - 2011-10-11 19:37:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Nova Fox
Wormhole is easy, Distance to point a to b is zero. even though point a and b are very far apart otherwise.

FTL drives are however various ways to a to b.

Conventionally going from a to b with current technology would be a very slow line taking ages to get to speed and just as much to slow down and currently according to current energy estimates we cannot do this yet anyways. If they where on a sheet of paper for this and all other examples ill talk about would be a drawn line between the two, there are few problems with drawing this faster, 1 friction, we are finding out more and more that space ISNT that empty and when you are traveling couple thosands of Km/s you're bound to run into something thats going to ruin your day or make your day that much worse and alot of small atoms in large numbers means trouble. 2 sir issac newton is the deadliest son of a b in space still hold true, go way too fast and dont dump off your sudden surge in movement and you are all pankcakes I say, pancakes.

Our next examples are fictional thankfully.

Star Trek shrinks the distance from a to b, recently this methood was thrown out by real phsycisist out the quantum window becuase of actual matter, dark matter, and dark energy between points a and b would prove just as troublesome as regular space travel essently making a brick wall to slam into when you got there. However I suspect they correct into the next model.

Which places a straw between point a and b. and everything in the straw is empty and the marbel has to squeeze though this staw to get from one end to the other. This creates a pocket the vessel (marble) travels down the straw shoving matter away from it. This is the one of the real ftl researchers are trying thier hands at the moment to get working.

Then our most exotic or fantastic form of ftl travel.

Battlestar and various other sci-fis including eve supposivly uses a methood that has a and b on one side of the page but the line connecting them are on the other side of that page. This helps ignore rules in regular space, however this means that anything entering in the new space must follow that spaces rules or die quite horribly then having ot make sure that the exit point is where you want it or you'd wind inside of a mountain.

And wormholes?

You essentially fold the paper so that a and b meet. and the rest of the sheet is actual space.

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Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#18 - 2011-10-11 19:42:18 UTC
As for the comment about mordern CPUs having those anomolies happening.

Its not a wormhole, its spontanous energy/matter destruction/creation, its been observed for quite a long time in deep observation wells that where supposed to be looking for partcles but saw this phnom happening instead. It seems mordern cpus are now inducing the effect as well.

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CCP Wrangler
#19 - 2011-10-11 21:08:14 UTC
It's only impossible if Einstein was right. Lol

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Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#20 - 2011-10-11 22:05:41 UTC
CCP Wrangler wrote:
It's only impossible if Einstein was right. Lol



Actually this was one of the theories he said he was wrong in then redacting his own call as he had nothing to prove the altnerative right. Along with his thoery of anti-gravity toying with the universe which is now being applauded as dark matter.

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