These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

A question of greed for non-pvpers
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#61 - 2012-08-01 12:58:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Cannibal Kane
I'm a Space Poor African...

All I do is PVP. Don't loose alot of ships but those I do loose I have already made all my isk back from drops twice/10 times it's value. Hell, the other night I scored 500mil on single ship that popped.

The believe that you need alot of friends or alot of isk to make pvp work is wrong. I do believe Carebears are greedy... I know a few that want top see that next 100billion arrive, but are to scared to spend that isk to go out and pvp.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#62 - 2012-08-01 13:04:12 UTC
If CCP fix neutral Repping. Stop it from ever happening.
If CCP fix station games (ie, no fighting within x kilometers from docking ring).
If CCP remove local.

I believe there will be a groundswell of PvP action without the need to ask questions about greed vs. need vs want vs. playstyle.

COO - Bene Gesserit Chapterhouse  CEO - Sanctuary Pact Alliance
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#63 - 2012-08-01 13:11:56 UTC
@ Hestia,

I don't really get your argument. Are you trying to say that all pvpers are scammers and idiots with no dignity?

Thorn Galen wrote:
If CCP fix neutral Repping. Stop it from ever happening.
If CCP fix station games (ie, no fighting within x kilometers from docking ring).
If CCP remove local.

I believe there will be a groundswell of PvP action without the need to ask questions about greed vs. need vs want vs. playstyle.


Choose no CONCORD.
Choose no stations.
Choose no local.

Choose wormhole space <3


.
Drunken Bum
#64 - 2012-08-01 13:48:11 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
For me? Not relevant. A "drop" is space pixels and fake money. Adrenaline makes me feel terrible, a real world effect that is just on a different scale than space pixels. Why would I want to do something that makes me feel bad just to get fake money?

Adrenalin makes you feel terrible?! Good luck ever doing anything fun in life.
As for me... If you have a shiny nickle on your pocket I'll kill ya for it

After the patch we're giving the market some gentle supply restriction, like tying one wrist to the bedpost loosely with soft silk rope. Just enough to make things a bit more exciting for the market, not enough to make a safeword necessary.  -Fozzie
Oisin Sandovar
Don't Die Interstellar Enterprises
#65 - 2012-08-01 14:43:59 UTC
Posting in yet another thread where people worry more about how others play the game, rather than how they themselves play the game. Pointless posts are pointless.

"And the only people I fear are those who never have doubts", Billy Joel, Shades of Grey
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#66 - 2012-08-01 14:44:58 UTC
Roime wrote:
Aurelius Valentius wrote:
I don't think it's a question of greed - because most "carebears" don't make Trillions of ISK they makee enoug to get by with a narrow margin of "success" in the means of keeping the lights on there opertions.

I would assume that the the problem understanding what motivates non-pvpers - explorers, miners, WH and K-space industrials is this:

They where the kids that liked legos, sandboxes, lincoln logs, etc... they like to build models and see something come together, and to make things - the have an "engineering" mindset.

This is either not something pvp-ers probably did as kids and so have no real interest in this as players - they type may have been the non-builder type of kids to adults... the TL;DR... doesn't want alot of chit-chat, just wants to go hit the 7-11 and then drive around in a car and do whatever... the Roaming types.

Since we have both the nomadic to pychopath on one side and the building to OCD types on the ofther... I don't really see greed as a primary motivator - especially when IF you want to collect ISK or items - easy to simply sub up, drop the cash on a bunch of PLEX and buy up whatever you like - EVE isn't that expensive to make it impossible for almost everyon to do that.

I think you would simply look at it as:
Builders get pleasure from making things - power from creation.
Destroyers get plleasure from breaking things - power from destruction.


I'm astonished how narrow-minded and monochromatic this point of view really is. Let me bring some colours in:

Legos were my and my friends favourite thing as kids. We built vast and intricate cities and castles, just imagine the pile of Legos you get when you combine the blocks of 4 families. We built Technics Legos and contested the funny machines against each others. We had speedboat competitions, and land rover competitions. But the best fun we had was when we invented Lego naval warfare! We built huge pirate and navy sailboats, and had a complex rule system based on the number of blocks used to build the ship and number of guns, dictating how many shots you can fire and how much damage the ship can take before considered malfunctional or sunk.

Then we catapulted marbles onto the ships and blew them to pieces, declared a winner and went back to our secret shipyards to come up with improved ships Cool

Point is- it's not about destruction. It's about challenging yourself and others, and winning. Pew pew is crazy fun, battling against human opponents is definitely the best thing EVE has to offer.



I want to come play LEGOs at your house!

We did the same thing, but with a Car Wars theme rather than pirate ships. Same building -> destruction cycle though. It's the circle of life for a LEGO fan :)

Another misconception about PVP is that it's always about taking something away from the other guy.

My PVP this morning was about giving the other guy(s) what they wanted, not taking it away. They had a nice 4-man bubble camp on a gate, they wanted a target, so I presented myself. They shot, I shot, one of them went boom. Then 'gf's were shared in local.

Nobody's feelings got hurt - and people asking for trouble got some :)

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Hestia Mar
Calmaretto
#67 - 2012-08-01 15:29:57 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
So your whole argument hinges on this game being "an MMO, not an MMORPG," which is entirely irrelevant to any point you were trying to make. You're basically saying that we act like this in EVE because we act like this in real life, which is pants-on-head ********. I can't for the life of me remember the last time I killed/robbed a person outside of a videogame, or for that matter wanted to. Guess what, just because I play Mario doesn't mean that my daily life is filled with turtle-stomping, and just because I play Team Fortress 2 doesn't mean I rocket-jump all the way to the corner store every time I need milk.

Oh, and as for those barrier-to-entry whines you just mentioned:

1. Focused training can make you just as good at something at 15 million skillspoints as you would be at 65
2. Learn to fight
3. Make some friends who know how to fight



You need to re-read my post after taking off your rose-tinted glasses - I said that some people act in EVE in a way that they would NOT do in real life.

I also said that I don't have interest in pvp, so your three points are, well, pointless. In fact, please provide an valid example to support point 1!
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#68 - 2012-08-01 15:37:17 UTC
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:
There is a carebear that isn't greedy?


There is an eve player that isn't "greedy"? Your premise is false.. Earning isk is the goal of the game to many players, nothing more than a way to keep score. Isk is my weapon and my reward. If "greed" was specifically a carebear trait why wasn't it carebears who tried to exploit 5 trillion plus isk in the recent FW / LP scandal. No that was the goon. What player would not stop to loot a 100 million isk mod they find in a wreck floating in space - without trying to find the owner of the wreck or the original owner of the mod? Isn't that "greedy" too?

Greed used to mean something different than people make it out today - it was a sin.. now days people use the word to attack self interest as if that was ever a sin.. "capitalism is greed" - and in some cloistered communist view of the world this may seem true...but it's not.

Eve is a game with many valid ways to play which will be embraced or demonized depending on the faction each player chooses to pursue. Calling someone "greedy" today is more about politics than reality... even in eve.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
#69 - 2012-08-01 15:41:16 UTC
Beyond the simple security hit to standings, which can easily recovered, there is the difficult-to-calculate impact on one's in-game reputation and the costs of any potential long or short term retaliation. Remember that non-pvpers are that way because they tend to be risk adverse...and having an unknown potential for increased risk may outweigh the one-time gain from their actions.





In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse.

Molokhe
Veyr
The Veyr Collective
#70 - 2012-08-01 17:47:50 UTC
Hestia Mar wrote:
this is another one of those questions that will be answered differently by people who consider EVE 'a game' as opposed to those who consider it ' a business'.

I'm quite happy to log in for a couple of hours, run missions/do hi-sec probing/mining or whatever, and more importantly just be social with the 36 or so alliance members who are usually on line at the same time as me, all the while having around 40m ISK in my wallet. In addition, if we get dec'd I'll tool up and fight to protect what's ours.

But I have no real interest in looking to destroy someone else's ship to get any drop, and more importantly why do you seem to want to force me into that course of action...this is just a stealth "why doesn't everyone pvp wah wah wah' thread



This sums it up for me. Sometimes after a hard day a work, I just want to log on, have a beer and fly some missions/mine with some mates and talk crap. It has nothing to do with greed and the chance of a shiny dropping wouldn't change that. And as far as I'm concerned, I'm playing this sandbox game in a way I enjoy, therefore I'm playing it right. Cool

It'll take more than someone bringing their violence my way to make me whine or cry, and lately I've been seeing more whining from the 'PvP'er crowd* over the fact that they'll have to work harder at shooting up mining ships. Whining about risk vs reward, and how the miners should be fitting up to face the danger. Then the same 'PvP'er crowd have been whining about a slight chance of losing their ability to boost while being off the grid.... double standards? Roll

*I appreciate everyone who PvPs doesn't fall in this group of people and I'm only using the same broad generalisation the OP uses when he implies that all players who don't blow other peoples ships up are 'greedy carebears'.
Bunnie Hop
Bunny Knights
#71 - 2012-08-01 17:56:39 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
You seem to think that all of us non PvPers (in the classic combat sense) are carebears.

Not only is this incorrect, but some PvPers are carebears too.

Carebearism has nothing to do with enthusiasm for pvp. It has everything to do with attitude and respect toward others' play styles. And before you flip this around on me by saying "well, why don't you respect the carebear play style and leave them alone?" I will go ahead and tell you that no, that's not how a combat-centric MMO works. They have to accept that we have the right to violence anyone, at any time we want. Their assumed right to perform their activities in absolute safety simply doesn't exist in the first place.


I don't think I have ever read a 'carebear' post asserting a right to go about their business in peace. Most just want ships to be balanced for such a combat-centric MMO. I only PVE at present but I fly ship combinations (multi accounts) designed to dust any gankers that attempt to take me on, or at least survive long enough for them to be concorded. You and your compatriots sure generalize PVE'ers as mindless bots who want to fly around la-la land, so you post the same nonsense over and over.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#72 - 2012-08-01 18:44:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Corina Jarr
Bunnie Hop wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
You seem to think that all of us non PvPers (in the classic combat sense) are carebears.

Not only is this incorrect, but some PvPers are carebears too.

Carebearism has nothing to do with enthusiasm for pvp. It has everything to do with attitude and respect toward others' play styles. And before you flip this around on me by saying "well, why don't you respect the carebear play style and leave them alone?" I will go ahead and tell you that no, that's not how a combat-centric MMO works. They have to accept that we have the right to violence anyone, at any time we want. Their assumed right to perform their activities in absolute safety simply doesn't exist in the first place.


I don't think I have ever read a 'carebear' post asserting a right to go about their business in peace. Most just want ships to be balanced for such a combat-centric MMO. I only PVE at present but I fly ship combinations (multi accounts) designed to dust any gankers that attempt to take me on, or at least survive long enough for them to be concorded. You and your compatriots sure generalize PVE'ers as mindless bots who want to fly around la-la land, so you post the same nonsense over and over.

You need to read more then.

There have been at least 25 topics (not just posts) that were specifically carebears wanting CCP to fix their problems in the past 6 months.


1 or 2 may have been troll threads though.


Also a person who wants a balanced MMO (in terms of EVE) would not be a carebear. They would be a reasonable person.

Edit: in short
PvP =/= not carebear
PvE =/= carebear.

Carebear is about attitude, not choice of profession.
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#73 - 2012-08-02 08:24:21 UTC
To answer OP's question: as with everything in EvE, "it depends". Should I be observing a newbie in a lowsec belt, I'd web/scram him and have a convo. If it's a player of which I deem he should "know better", I woudn't mind pew pew for the sake of pew pew alone, regardless of challenge. Typing in local that you have found a shiny, it's actually my favourite way to get people to go search for me. I see it as an invitation to PvP, whether it will be a gank, a standup fight or a goosechase depends on the target.
Anya Ohaya
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#74 - 2012-08-02 09:51:29 UTC
Pointless thread is pointless.
Bunolagus
NIPTO
#75 - 2012-08-03 11:08:55 UTC
I am a proud carebear. It is how I choose to play this game. I also solo. Funny thing about a sandbox. Even us loners can find things to do that don't involve fighting other players. If this game were only about combat it would aweful boring.

There is no amount of game that would cause me to agress someone who didn't initiate agression toward me first. Even then, I am more likely to flee than return fire.

You may find this repulsive, but that I don't control how you choose to react to my choices.