These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Warfare & Tactics

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Awaiting New Minmatar Excuse.

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Lexmana
#61 - 2012-08-01 07:46:08 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
[quote=Xuixien]

A simplified example, a warzone of 10 systems. 100 plexers on one side and 10 plexers on the other. These systems auto flip.

Assuming that these plexers plex at the same rate, the side with 10 plexers can only hold onto 1 system at any given time. This is not reflective of skill or ability, its just a numbers game like nullsec.


The problem with your example is that, besides being oversimplified to the point of uselessness, is that as far as system control is concerned it's going to be a numbers game either way, so you're making a moot point.

How can it be a moot point when the end results is completely different? Of course you want autoflip and constant T5. Who wouldn't that for themselves? But do you really think it would be good for the game?
Horak Thor
Angry Mustellid
#62 - 2012-08-01 09:30:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Horak Thor
Derp post

.....
Horak Thor
Angry Mustellid
#63 - 2012-08-01 09:30:36 UTC
Salicaz wrote:
Pre-Inferno you performed a massive land grab- Then claimed it was your leet pvp.

Just after inferno you took system after system (sorry, the alt army did) due to imbalanced rats..yet..still claimed it was your leet pvp

Before nulli joined you had 19 vunerable systems, this is because no pvper wants to dplex (understandable) and your gunless frig brigade won't do it, and have no nowhere to now plex have left you.

A few months ago you all thought this was immensly funny rolling around in your isk toasting each other about how leet your pvp was whilst being space rich. Working as intended even. Whilst denying it was the hordes of LP farmers dictating the front.

However, now you spend most of your time reallocating assets, the forum noise has stopped. Where is your leet pvp to stop us? Didn't both Hans and Susan claim "we should have fought harder"? Where is your leet pvp?

And for the record, Nulli are like the Americans of WW2. They shortened the conflict a bit, but will still claim they won the war.

So Minmitar, please. Leave your excuses here.



Well you pretty much said it all tbh, def plex mechanics are crap being able to unlimited vulnerable buffer a system means a vuln system can't be saved realistically.
Also our army of gunless alt lp whores have switched to you guys so we don't have those bastards (mixed blessing)
All the advantage is in the hands of the attacker.

Anyway the pvp is awesome atm, don't you agree the last 4- 6 weeks has been boring?
Plus since fweddit got better, it's been good to have nulli padding out my kb instead, thanks guys :)

Anyway get to tier 5 hold it for a bit once your lp store items devalue 0.0 alts etc will seesaw back to us, this needs to be fixed I'd rather just fight our ammarian brosefs tbh.

.....
Amymuffmuff
Hostile.
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#64 - 2012-08-01 09:40:58 UTC
My view. Amarr suck? Lol.

We have known form a while that this was going to happen and it was just a matter of time
It wasn't really hard to see how to exploit it to allow the losers to gain what they need


if you ain't noticed as well lost of us are on holiday so hurry back fellow minmatards. lets get back at the pew!

Editor for evenews24.com
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#65 - 2012-08-01 10:37:26 UTC
Lexmana wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
[quote=Xuixien]

A simplified example, a warzone of 10 systems. 100 plexers on one side and 10 plexers on the other. These systems auto flip.

Assuming that these plexers plex at the same rate, the side with 10 plexers can only hold onto 1 system at any given time. This is not reflective of skill or ability, its just a numbers game like nullsec.


The problem with your example is that, besides being oversimplified to the point of uselessness, is that as far as system control is concerned it's going to be a numbers game either way, so you're making a moot point.

How can it be a moot point when the end results is completely different? Of course you want autoflip and constant T5. Who wouldn't that for themselves? But do you really think it would be good for the game?


AutoFlip would not lead to "constant T5" for either side. In either scenario the side with the most farmers has a clear advantage. An auto-flipping system would give the side with the smallest number a chance.

But either way, it was just one suggestion I threw out there. I think it has some merit in certain circumstances, I guess you do not. That is OK but there's no point in obsessing over it.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Lexmana
#66 - 2012-08-01 10:46:22 UTC
Amymuffmuff wrote:
My view. Amarr suck? Lol.

We have known form a while that this was going to happen and it was just a matter of time
It wasn't really hard to see how to exploit it to allow the losers to gain what they need


if you ain't noticed as well lost of us are on holiday so hurry back fellow minmatards. lets get back at the pew!

So there it is. The new Minmatar excuse. I gave you to much credit thinking you would be more creative.
Amymuffmuff
Hostile.
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#67 - 2012-08-01 11:13:10 UTC
Oh yes. because i wanted to give an excuse for the fact you are currently winning the plex war

fine by me if it makes you feel good.

Editor for evenews24.com
Blitz Suahien
Doomheim
#68 - 2012-08-01 12:20:04 UTC
Salicaz wrote:


And for the record, Nulli are like the Americans of WW2. They shortened the conflict a bit, but will still claim they won the war.



I love how the Europeans always seem to forget how there was like...and entire OTHER war that the Americans fought the majority of by themselves. I mean, aside from diminishing the huge role they played in the European theatre. I also think this is a fairly ridiculous analogy because Nulli haven't really said anything on the matter.

More on topic, it would be really cool if my fellow Amarr-bro's didn't act exactly like the minmatar did on the forums, I actually like you guys. Don't be douchebags. Besides, there's still a lot of territory to take.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#69 - 2012-08-01 12:28:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Xuixien wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:

Under your suggested system if nulli stay and no one can interest another entity to join then the minmatar are the losers of today AND tomorrow. With perma vuln systems and no lp for defensive systems matar still have a reason and can afford to fight and plex as the sheer numbers of the enemy is balanced by the mechanics.


Sorry I'm not seeing. You'll have to elaborate more.


A simplified example, a warzone of 10 systems. 100 plexers on one side and 10 plexers on the other. These systems auto flip.

Assuming that these plexers plex at the same rate, the side with 10 plexers can only hold onto 1 system at any given time. This is not reflective of skill or ability, its just a numbers game like nullsec.


The problem with your example is that, besides being oversimplified to the point of uselessness, is that as far as system control is concerned it's going to be a numbers game either way, so you're making a moot point.


No, the current system is as far from a numbers game as possible (not completely removed but there are balancing mechanics). in a fw with 10 systems, 100v10 plexers. The 10 plexers can still make the 10 systems vulnerable even if it will take them 10 times longer (assuming no defensive). Once vulnerable, the side with 10 plexers can swing the systems in their favour. Sure, the 10man side will lose their systems 10 times quicker than it took to gain them. And of course the side with 100 plexers will have occupancy more often, but with auto switching systems the side with 10 players will NEVER have more than 1 system. Its basic mathematics.

In the current mechanics, individuals on the 10 man side entering the stage where they upgrade their systems (everything being equal) will have 10x the LP that the individuals on the 100man side has. This is by virtue of upgrade days for the 10 man side being 10x less frequent.

The only simple thing about this example is there is the assumption of no defence, which apart from key home systems is largely correct anyway. There is a certain balance to all this even if it does swing from one sides favour to the other.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#70 - 2012-08-01 13:10:00 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:

Under your suggested system if nulli stay and no one can interest another entity to join then the minmatar are the losers of today AND tomorrow. With perma vuln systems and no lp for defensive systems matar still have a reason and can afford to fight and plex as the sheer numbers of the enemy is balanced by the mechanics.


Sorry I'm not seeing. You'll have to elaborate more.


A simplified example, a warzone of 10 systems. 100 plexers on one side and 10 plexers on the other. These systems auto flip.

Assuming that these plexers plex at the same rate, the side with 10 plexers can only hold onto 1 system at any given time. This is not reflective of skill or ability, its just a numbers game like nullsec.


The problem with your example is that, besides being oversimplified to the point of uselessness, is that as far as system control is concerned it's going to be a numbers game either way, so you're making a moot point.


No, the current system is as far from a numbers game as possible (not completely removed but there are balancing mechanics). in a fw with 10 systems, 100v10 plexers. The 10 plexers can still make the 10 systems vulnerable even if it will take them 10 times longer (assuming no defensive). Once vulnerable, the side with 10 plexers can swing the systems in their favour. Sure, the 10man side will lose their systems 10 times quicker than it took to gain them. And of course the side with 100 plexers will have occupancy more often, but with auto switching systems the side with 10 players will NEVER have more than 1 system. Its basic mathematics.

In the current mechanics, individuals on the 10 man side entering the stage where they upgrade their systems (everything being equal) will have 10x the LP that the individuals on the 100man side has. This is by virtue of upgrade days for the 10 man side being 10x less frequent.

The only simple thing about this example is there is the assumption of no defence, which apart from key home systems is largely correct anyway. There is a certain balance to all this even if it does swing from one sides favour to the other.


In current system this all is just a part of some ******** theory, not the truth.
Capitol One
Blue Canary
Watch This
#71 - 2012-08-01 13:28:01 UTC
Amymuffmuff wrote:
Oh yes. because i wanted to give an excuse for the fact you are currently winning the plex war

fine by me if it makes you feel good.


You make me feel good :3
Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
#72 - 2012-08-01 13:31:30 UTC
What?biggest joke is .... Hans is now very silent and is not advocating current system too much. CCP is dead silent about FW and probably is scratching their heads WTF went wrong with that not very well prepared plan .... and I am very afraid when the **** will hit gal/cal front, which is now decently ballanced, but I kinda see some structural damage and risks in very near future.


all alternatives of future looks kinda stupid .... even if Amar will flip the tide and will take minnie space, there will be again hordes of alts plexing and switching sides (which is not even funny). Actually there might be politics behind it .... who will be farmers best friend will gain the docking rights :D ... so like pimps we will be herding our plexing farmers ....

well as was said many times by CCP .... working as intended ... stupid .... but working .... What?
Vordak Kallager
Descendance.
GoonSwarm.
#73 - 2012-08-01 13:33:39 UTC
Hidden Snake wrote:
What?biggest joke is .... Hans is now very silent and is not advocating current system too much. CCP is dead silent about FW and probably is scratching their heads WTF went wrong with that not very well prepared plan .... and I am very afraid when the **** will hit gal/cal front, which is now decently ballanced, but I kinda see some structural damage and risks in very near future.


all alternatives of future looks kinda stupid .... even if Amar will flip the tide and will take minnie space, there will be again hordes of alts plexing and switching sides (which is not even funny). Actually there might be politics behind it .... who will be farmers best friend will gain the docking rights :D ... so like pimps we will be herding our plexing farmers ....

well as was said many times by CCP .... working as intended ... stupid .... but working .... What?






I liked your post because you seem like the kind of person who needs their tin-foiling, black-helicoptering, New World Ordering validated by other people.

Sa souvraya niende misain ye.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#74 - 2012-08-01 13:41:44 UTC
Vordak Kallager wrote:
Hidden Snake wrote:
What?biggest joke is .... Hans is now very silent and is not advocating current system too much. CCP is dead silent about FW and probably is scratching their heads WTF went wrong with that not very well prepared plan .... and I am very afraid when the **** will hit gal/cal front, which is now decently ballanced, but I kinda see some structural damage and risks in very near future.


all alternatives of future looks kinda stupid .... even if Amar will flip the tide and will take minnie space, there will be again hordes of alts plexing and switching sides (which is not even funny). Actually there might be politics behind it .... who will be farmers best friend will gain the docking rights :D ... so like pimps we will be herding our plexing farmers ....

well as was said many times by CCP .... working as intended ... stupid .... but working .... What?






I liked your post because you seem like the kind of person who needs their tin-foiling, black-helicoptering, New World Ordering validated by other people.


CCP has balanced FW couple times just because gallente and minmatar could not compete.

Amarr does not need any CCP action to get back in business, as usuall players can handle situation.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#75 - 2012-08-01 13:45:56 UTC
Bad Messenger wrote:
Vordak Kallager wrote:
Hidden Snake wrote:
What?biggest joke is .... Hans is now very silent and is not advocating current system too much. CCP is dead silent about FW and probably is scratching their heads WTF went wrong with that not very well prepared plan .... and I am very afraid when the **** will hit gal/cal front, which is now decently ballanced, but I kinda see some structural damage and risks in very near future.


all alternatives of future looks kinda stupid .... even if Amar will flip the tide and will take minnie space, there will be again hordes of alts plexing and switching sides (which is not even funny). Actually there might be politics behind it .... who will be farmers best friend will gain the docking rights :D ... so like pimps we will be herding our plexing farmers ....

well as was said many times by CCP .... working as intended ... stupid .... but working .... What?






I liked your post because you seem like the kind of person who needs their tin-foiling, black-helicoptering, New World Ordering validated by other people.


CCP has balanced FW couple times just because gallente and minmatar could not compete.

Amarr does not need any CCP action to get back in business, as usuall players can handle situation.



Has damar got control of this account? Thats two posts from BM in a row that have no relevance to the quotation in the post. Thats usually a damar trait.
subtle turtle
Doozer Mining Cartel
#76 - 2012-08-01 13:47:09 UTC
David Devant wrote:
If the consensus is that T5 will keep flipping back and forth, how about instead of complaining instead we keep really really quiet and get really really space rich. And then after like a year or so we can have this massive space battle with huge spaceships and **** and I'll be all like akakakakakak and you'll be all like pew pew pew. Gonna be awesome. Cool


QFT. The PVP in FW is still awesome, and now there is a chance to make isk while shooting people. Everyone be quite, or the rest of eve will come in and the high and null sec will be abandoned!
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#77 - 2012-08-01 13:48:08 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Bad Messenger wrote:
Vordak Kallager wrote:
Hidden Snake wrote:
What?biggest joke is .... Hans is now very silent and is not advocating current system too much. CCP is dead silent about FW and probably is scratching their heads WTF went wrong with that not very well prepared plan .... and I am very afraid when the **** will hit gal/cal front, which is now decently ballanced, but I kinda see some structural damage and risks in very near future.


all alternatives of future looks kinda stupid .... even if Amar will flip the tide and will take minnie space, there will be again hordes of alts plexing and switching sides (which is not even funny). Actually there might be politics behind it .... who will be farmers best friend will gain the docking rights :D ... so like pimps we will be herding our plexing farmers ....

well as was said many times by CCP .... working as intended ... stupid .... but working .... What?






I liked your post because you seem like the kind of person who needs their tin-foiling, black-helicoptering, New World Ordering validated by other people.


CCP has balanced FW couple times just because gallente and minmatar could not compete.

Amarr does not need any CCP action to get back in business, as usuall players can handle situation.



Has damar got control of this account? Thats two posts from BM in a row that have no relevance to the quotation in the post. Thats usually a damar trait.


BM is one of Damar's many alts.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Cpt Branko
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#78 - 2012-08-01 13:55:28 UTC
From what I understand, FW only exists for farming really incredible amounts of ISK with disposable T1 ships.

I don't understand why the drama.
Princess Nexxala
Zero Syndicate
#79 - 2012-08-01 15:35:04 UTC
FW is purrrrfect!

nom nom
David Clausewitz
David Clausewitz Corporation
#80 - 2012-08-01 15:51:32 UTC  |  Edited by: David Clausewitz
Salicaz wrote:


And for the record, Nulli are like the Americans of WW2. They shortened the conflict a bit, but will still claim they won the war.



Off-topic, but:

It's debatable whether the Axis would have actually lost WW2 without "any" American intervention.

It's one thing to say they would have been defeated anyways without direct military intervention from America. It's an entirely different thing to say the Axis would have been defeated anyways without any American supplies, foreign aid, or indirect support being sent to the Allied//Comintern nations from the sleeping giant.