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Suicide Ganking and it's effect in EVE (my opinion)
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Pipa Porto
#41 - 2012-07-24 16:34:58 UTC
Kali Omega wrote:
I dont ask anyone to pay me to not gank them....i just get bored look for a target and bam dead hulk.


Ok. You don't run a Protection Racket, he runs a Protection Racket. Both are equally valid preferences. What's your point?

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Antelin
Nameless Minions
GaNg BaNg TeAm
#42 - 2012-07-24 16:59:00 UTC
I am rather at odds with suicide ganking. I can see where some people enjoy griefing others, and I can see where some people outright deserve it (yes you, the one who doesn't tank your hulk). There are some problems with the set up of mining ships though, and hopefully the rebalancing of them can fix it.

The main problem is that even if you ARE tanked in a hulk a small group of people in cheap t2 gun fit destroyers can still pop you extremely easily. Second is the cost of mining vessels vs their EHP and resists. The hulk I fly has roughly 16k ehp. That is a 2 invulns, a DCU, and a field extender rig. It would take 3 Catalysts roughly 9 seconds to pop me. Concord would not pop them before they could pop me. I can not warp off before they point me. They will be blown up, yes, but my 350-400m t2 fit hulk just got popped in 9 seconds to roughly 30m worth of ships even though I took precautions to prevent it. They can come back, salvage my wreck, salvage their wrecks, take the loot, take my ore (unless in an anchored GSC), and make a huge profits by doing so.

Another problem comes in the form of ship scanners and haulers. Most new players don't know **** about the game. They don't realize the extent of people's asshattery, and use all cargo fit haulers. Now, most suicide gate camps will have someone scan you on the way into a gate, have an alpha striker on the back side and a hauler there as well. They scan you, see that you are worth more than their ship, pop you on the back side, load their hauler with yours and their friends loot, salvage, and warp off. It is very lucrative if done right. Now why is this a problem? Because there is no counter to a ship scanner. Yes you can pack things into GSC, but that really doesn't deter someone from attacking. They see you aren't tanked and will kill you for the chance at billions on a kill mail. IMO a ship scanner should be able to be used when cloaked, and used for fleet intel, etc. The way it is now its only purpose is to promote gate camping suicide gankers. There needs to be some kind of counter to a ship scanner.


Just my .02 isk.
Pipa Porto
#43 - 2012-07-24 17:05:37 UTC
Antelin wrote:
I am rather at odds with suicide ganking. I can see where some people enjoy griefing others, and I can see where some people outright deserve it (yes you, the one who doesn't tank your hulk). There are some problems with the set up of mining ships though, and hopefully the rebalancing of them can fix it.


There needs to be some kind of counter to a ship scanner.


You can tank your Hulk to make it unprofitable to gank it. If you're only getting 16k EHP out of your Hulk, you need to do better (I've posted tank fits around here several times). If you feel like including the outside support gankers get in your profit calculations, you need a small amount of outside support to make it unprofitable.

The counter to the ship/cargo scanner is to fit your ship well and put an appropriate value of cargo within an appropriate ship. Being stupid is not a game design problem.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Ristlin Wakefield
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#44 - 2012-07-24 20:14:39 UTC
Serena Serene wrote:
banner of "law":
I think that's just roleplaying/acting and/or trying to be funny. You know, like ninja salvagers saying they do it to clean up space.

Or maybe there's a real "business interest" in it, since you say corps and alliances do it as a whole. Chasing away miners from systems they want to have to themselves, trying to control an aspect of the game (mining) in an area they view as their own, even though you can't technically own high sec space, from what I understood. It's like organized crime.

Maybe I don't understand you right, but it seems strange to me that of all things these "claims" (or jokes) about enforcing some law are what bother you. :)

Edit: there's also an edit button on this forum ;)


I took pride in my work as a space garbage man during my infancy.

I have a lover, her name is EVE. I see her every night and all she asks in return is that I have a pilot's license.
Gwarlord
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#45 - 2012-07-24 20:24:31 UTC
Mane Frehm wrote:
Good day. I'm Mining Inspector #14, and I've been asked to respond to the OP.

We are authorized agents for the MHEA and their rules are very clear - no mining in Molden Heath without a license. The OP was found mining in Molden Heath without a license, and so I followed the standard protocol for inspection - destroy the offending ship.

I was promptly greeted with profanity and threats in local, and when I explained the error of his ways, there was simply more of the same. When I sent a followup EVE mail explaining how to get a license I received 2 mails in return - one laden with profanity and the other boasting about how many Mackinaws he could afford and threatening to bring capital ships against mining inspectors.

When I followed up to find out how many capital ships there would be (each one would of course need a license), I again received insults and a bit of whining. I admit I lost my temper at that point (clearly its time for me to get more sensitivity training), but even so I tried one last time to be helpful, explaining that fitting a civilian shield booster on a Mackinaw is not a good idea. The response was as bitter as before, only this time there was a claim of harassment.

I was surprised as he had been sending me twice as many mails as I sent him. In any event, I responded in kind asking that he not send me any more mails. But he did.....sigh.


The OP clearly needs to learn more about the environment and the devastation caused by illegal mining (we have training programs available at a very reasonable rate). I hope he sees the error of his ways. My apologies to the MHEA - I will sign up for that sensitivity course. Oh - and to the OP - I can issue you that license at any time; happy to help out.



Mane Frehm
Mining Inspector #14



ROFL

I suddenly have the urge to mine illegally in Molden Heath.

This could get fun. Might have to post-pone my return to null sec for a few days.
Kali Omega
Diamond Dogs.
Mercenaires Sans Frontieres.
#46 - 2012-07-24 23:46:27 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Kali Omega wrote:
I dont ask anyone to pay me to not gank them....i just get bored look for a target and bam dead hulk.


Ok. You don't run a Protection Racket, he runs a Protection Racket. Both are equally valid preferences. What's your point?


That i think he is a tool...funny but a tool....thought i made that clear in my OP
jimmyjam
Fire Mandrill
#47 - 2012-07-25 01:06:08 UTC
If suicide ganking ever stopped it would be horrible for obvious reasons.
Elias Greyhand
#48 - 2012-07-25 07:53:58 UTC
Gwarlord wrote:

I suddenly have the urge to mine illegally in Molden Heath.


I don't mine on the basis that it's too much like an honest days work.. But I concur with this sentiment.

"That which is done cannot be undone. But it can be avenged."
Dan Carter Murray
#49 - 2012-07-25 10:29:35 UTC
Meinerman wrote:
I started off playing EVE in 2008 as a miner. I worked hard and built up my mining skills and helped out a few corps along the way. I have never been a bot, only mined AFK once in all that time and very rarely dumped my ore onto the market. Recently my corp bought a mackinaw for use in gathering material for production. I used it well until yesterday when I was suicide ganked in Teonusude in Molden Heath.

I am not writing this to complain about being ganked, of course I was angry when it happened, but such is life in eve. I have read many posts both for and against suicide ganking and I see both sides. As a victim, my fellow miners will probably be surprised to read that I do not believe the practice should be stopped by CCP. I learned a valuable lesson from it and will alter my game play accordingly (thankfully most of my skills are combat related). My one complaint is that some corps and alliances are doing it under the banner of "law." Saying they have the exclusive rights to issue mining licenses in highsec space. This is extortion pure and simple and it is a cowardly way to play in my book. From what i read most gankers do it for some higher cause and thats understandable albeit sometimes misguided. But most of them are dedicated PvPers who also play elsewhere. I am going to move to null sec with a credible corp and alliance and continue to mine, but not the boring highsec mining any more. And when I am called to fight I will do so with enthusiasm and play eve in the funnest way I can. So the effect suicide ganking has on EVE, in my opinion, is both good or bad. It all depends on how the ganked person takes it:)


Tell these highsec leet pvpers that I want to buy a highsec mining license. They can find me in/around Eha. I only purchase licenses from cynabal pilots. Must be in person.

http://mfi.re/?j7ldoco 50GB free space @ MediaFire.com
Inggroth
Harbingers of Reset
#50 - 2012-07-25 11:34:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Inggroth
Suicide ganking post insurance nerf is nearly perfectly balanced (and will be perfect post mining vessel rebalance).

Want to gank Hulks just for tears? Deal with the sec loss OR put effort in so you can move ships/provide warpins for your -10 character.
Want to blap haulers for profit? Find a prey is actually worth the 70+ mil Tornado hull + the sec loss + the possibility of ninjalooting of what may or may not drop off the hauler.
Want to gank pimped missionrunner Tengus? invest in +5%s, get an alt for boosting, put work into finding a prey worth your time and figuring out the technique.

Thats how it should be - viable, but requires effort.
The highsec "this is singleplayer" player type sperging will never stop though - we all know this.
Kali Omega
Diamond Dogs.
Mercenaires Sans Frontieres.
#51 - 2012-07-26 00:30:45 UTC
Inggroth wrote:
Suicide ganking post insurance nerf is nearly perfectly balanced (and will be perfect post mining vessel rebalance).

Want to gank Hulks just for tears? Deal with the sec loss OR put effort in so you can move ships/provide warpins for your -10 character.
Want to blap haulers for profit? Find a prey is actually worth the 70+ mil Tornado hull + the sec loss + the possibility of ninjalooting of what may or may not drop off the hauler.
Want to gank pimped missionrunner Tengus? invest in +5%s, get an alt for boosting, put work into finding a prey worth your time and figuring out the technique.

Thats how it should be - viable, but requires effort.
The highsec "this is singleplayer" player type sperging will never stop though - we all know this.


Could of not said it any better
xPredat0rz
Project.Nova
The Initiative.
#52 - 2012-07-31 17:55:16 UTC
How about we play the stfu game because your making our alliance look like ****...




drink this nice cup of stfu and go on your way... Otherwise i will visit your "Mining OP" in null sec
Zicon Shak'ra
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2012-07-31 19:02:22 UTC
xPredat0rz wrote:
How about we play the stfu game because your making our alliance look like ****...
drink this nice cup of stfu and go on your way... Otherwise i will visit your "Mining OP" in null sec


OP got confused and thought he was playing Hello Kitty: Island Adventure again.

Wormholes are cool, m'kay?
xPredat0rz
Project.Nova
The Initiative.
#54 - 2012-08-01 01:36:26 UTC
And because one of our epic artists heard of this we have a present for you


http://i.imgur.com/Cko2P.png
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