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A question of greed for non-pvpers
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Linna Excel
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-07-31 22:54:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Linna Excel
Today in chat, someone mentioned he got a really good drop. That made me think of something: for how much isk drop potential would it take for a greed to overcome a non-pvpers nature to make it tempting to blow up someone else's ship?


For the isk/hour people to figure out: how much time does it take to grind back your standings after blowing up someone else in hi sec and how much investment would it take to blow up the other ship?


EDIT: removed reference to carebears from title to remove confusion for the purpose as there are PvP carebears.

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Suddenly Forums ForumKings
Doomheim
#2 - 2012-07-31 22:55:47 UTC
There is a carebear that isn't greedy?
Jim Era
#3 - 2012-07-31 22:57:28 UTC
at least 1 PLEX

Wat™
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-07-31 23:02:10 UTC
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:
There is a carebear that isn't greedy?

If we were we would already be shooting thieves and wouldn't be carebears now would we?
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#5 - 2012-07-31 23:05:14 UTC
The interesting thing about greed is that it's often balanced by fear.

Carebears possess both in overabundance.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#6 - 2012-07-31 23:06:27 UTC
You seem to think that all of us non PvPers (in the classic combat sense) are carebears.


Not only is this incorrect, but some PvPers are carebears too.




Anyway, in answer to your question: it depends.


In my case, chance of drop wouldn't even factor into it. I don't care about isk. I don't care about kill mails.
All I care about is doing what I want to do (well, and it being possible for everyone else to do this... yay for freedom). Which changes on a day to day basis.
Jim Era
#7 - 2012-07-31 23:08:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Jim Era
I just have no want to take away something that somebody else has worked for. that is just terribly rude.
Unless it would benefit me SO much then I wouldn't care.
I would not want to take something that is not real that somebody has put REAL time into to gain.
That being said, I would take your PLEX without a second though, because it would benefit me greatly, AND it is obtainable through outside sources (acknowledging I know PLEX can be bought with ISK) so if they have real money to throw away to a game, I'll show them it could be a mistake >.< plus its easier to get money IRL than in EVE imo. lol

basically I just feel like playing, and helping out others is real fun. My goal in EVE is not to make ISK, that would just make the game like a real job and that would be no fun. Instead I just focus on having fun with minimal moneis

Wat™
Aurelius Valentius
Valentius Corporation
Valentius Corporation Alliance
#8 - 2012-07-31 23:11:02 UTC
I don't think it's a question of greed - because most "carebears" don't make Trillions of ISK they makee enoug to get by with a narrow margin of "success" in the means of keeping the lights on there opertions.

I would assume that the the problem understanding what motivates non-pvpers - explorers, miners, WH and K-space industrials is this:

They where the kids that liked legos, sandboxes, lincoln logs, etc... they like to build models and see something come together, and to make things - the have an "engineering" mindset.

This is either not something pvp-ers probably did as kids and so have no real interest in this as players - they type may have been the non-builder type of kids to adults... the TL;DR... doesn't want alot of chit-chat, just wants to go hit the 7-11 and then drive around in a car and do whatever... the Roaming types.

Since we have both the nomadic to pychopath on one side and the building to OCD types on the ofther... I don't really see greed as a primary motivator - especially when IF you want to collect ISK or items - easy to simply sub up, drop the cash on a bunch of PLEX and buy up whatever you like - EVE isn't that expensive to make it impossible for almost everyon to do that.

I think you would simply look at it as:
Builders get pleasure from making things - power from creation.
Destroyers get plleasure from breaking things - power from destruction.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#9 - 2012-07-31 23:14:06 UTC
For me? Not relevant. A "drop" is space pixels and fake money. Adrenaline makes me feel terrible, a real world effect that is just on a different scale than space pixels. Why would I want to do something that makes me feel bad just to get fake money?

Now, in groups where I can share a group experience with other real people, sometimes that will draw me into a PvP situation, maybe once a month. In fact just to prove the point, last time I went out I managed to steal a fully fit Proteus, worth around 1 billion. That did nothing to encourage me to go out again.

Disclaimer: Im talking about PvP space combat, not the market or exploration and so on. Those PvP activities I do quite often.

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Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#10 - 2012-07-31 23:14:22 UTC
I don't think it would be that simple.

Because "Carebear-as-pejorative" is a deeply-ingrained mentality, one that mere "chance of shiny" will not dent.

Proof: Every one of these **** cry-threads on these forums where this kind of CB gets his bullshit, game-breaking arguments refuted in the same way, every bloody time, yet continues blaring the same damned thing overandoverandoverandover again...Roll

A proper-for-EVE carebear --read: One with teeth, who understands what EVE is, and works within that-- would simply make an economically rational decision.

IE, "Do I stand to potentially gain more than I would lose, does it seem like it would be fun to try, and is it worth the time/effort, sec-status loss, etc., Y/N?"

If Y: URP-SPLOSION TYME NAOW!!

If N: F it, can't be arsed, let's go do something else.

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#11 - 2012-07-31 23:14:48 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:
You seem to think that all of us non PvPers (in the classic combat sense) are carebears.

Not only is this incorrect, but some PvPers are carebears too.

Carebearism has nothing to do with enthusiasm for pvp. It has everything to do with attitude and respect toward others' play styles. And before you flip this around on me by saying "well, why don't you respect the carebear play style and leave them alone?" I will go ahead and tell you that no, that's not how a combat-centric MMO works. They have to accept that we have the right to violence anyone, at any time we want. Their assumed right to perform their activities in absolute safety simply doesn't exist in the first place.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#12 - 2012-07-31 23:19:12 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
You seem to think that all of us non PvPers (in the classic combat sense) are carebears.

Not only is this incorrect, but some PvPers are carebears too.

Carebearism has nothing to do with enthusiasm for pvp. It has everything to do with attitude and respect toward others' play styles. And before you flip this around on me by saying "well, why don't you respect the carebear play style and leave them alone?" I will go ahead and tell you that no, that's not how a combat-centric MMO works. They have to accept that we have the right to violence anyone, at any time we want. Their assumed right to perform their activities in absolute safety simply doesn't exist in the first place.

Agreed. 100%


Sorry, I meant the OP, not you.
It seemed like (based on the wording of the title and subsequent initial post) the OP fell into that group that thinks "not PvP=carebear".
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-07-31 23:20:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
You seem to think that all of us non PvPers (in the classic combat sense) are carebears.

Not only is this incorrect, but some PvPers are carebears too.

Carebearism has nothing to do with enthusiasm for pvp. It has everything to do with attitude and respect toward others' play styles. And before you flip this around on me by saying "well, why don't you respect the carebear play style and leave them alone?" I will go ahead and tell you that no, that's not how a combat-centric MMO works. They have to accept that we have the right to violence anyone, at any time we want. Their assumed right to perform their activities in absolute safety simply doesn't exist in the first place.

Using the term as it looks like the op meant it seems that it would fall under the "non-pvp'er" type, not the "PvP needs an optional flag" type.

Edit: Admittedly the interchangeability with which the 2 are used is at times confusing to me, but since the op was talking about a normally passive person engaging in hostile and potentially unwanted acts that they were not referring to those that don't acknowledge that as a valid manner of play.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#14 - 2012-08-01 00:04:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:


A proper-for-EVE carebear --read: One with teeth, who understands what EVE is, and works within that-- would simply make an economically rational decision.

IE, "Do I stand to potentially gain more than I would lose, does it seem like it would be fun to try, and is it worth the time/effort, sec-status loss, etc., Y/N?"

If Y: URP-SPLOSION TYME NAOW!!

If N: F it, can't be arsed, let's go do something else.


This just about sums it up, if profitable and or fun yep sec status is there to be consumed, especially when you get your inner Pirate on.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Feyd's Survival Pack
Hiyora Akachi
Blood Alcohol Content
T O P S H E L F
#15 - 2012-08-01 00:05:07 UTC
Stop lumping non-pvpers with the carebears! I don't PvP because I can't afford to yet!


But as for the question:

A plex.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#16 - 2012-08-01 00:07:08 UTC
Hiyora Akachi wrote:
Stop lumping non-pvpers with the carebears! I don't PvP because I can't afford to yet!


But as for the question:

A plex.


I don't PvP unless I have to, because I suck P

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#17 - 2012-08-01 00:15:50 UTC
Hiyora Akachi wrote:
Stop lumping non-pvpers with the carebears! I don't PvP because I can't afford to yet!


But as for the question:

A plex.

Don't fall into that trap, because the longer you wait, the harder it will be to escape it. Seriously, this is honest advice. You don't need lots of money to pvp.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Charles Baker
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2012-08-01 00:20:17 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Hiyora Akachi wrote:
Stop lumping non-pvpers with the carebears! I don't PvP because I can't afford to yet!


But as for the question:

A plex.

Don't fall into that trap, because the longer you wait, the harder it will be to escape it. Seriously, this is honest advice. You don't need lots of money to pvp.


You need either money or friends to make PVP viable, seriously even 3v1 a T1 Thrasher will probably melt two T1 fitted Thrashers.
Suddenly Forums ForumKings
Doomheim
#19 - 2012-08-01 00:24:58 UTC
Charles Baker wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Hiyora Akachi wrote:
Stop lumping non-pvpers with the carebears! I don't PvP because I can't afford to yet!


But as for the question:

A plex.

Don't fall into that trap, because the longer you wait, the harder it will be to escape it. Seriously, this is honest advice. You don't need lots of money to pvp.


You need either money or friends to make PVP viable, seriously even 3v1 a T1 Thrasher will probably melt two T1 fitted Thrashers.


And making friends is hard?
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#20 - 2012-08-01 00:26:46 UTC
No one ever said it's mandatory to go after every opportunity to fight that presents itself. That's simply another carebear machination; if you're not a coward, you will fight even when it's stupid to do so.

Also, attitude > pilot skill > skillpoint count > money. Take it from someone who's been doing it for over eight years.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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