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Intergalactic Summit

 
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Dear God...
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Devils Embrace
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-07-31 23:24:31 UTC
Did you mean for Giraffe to look like that or was it an accident?

Yours truly,
D.E

It's like they usually say about fantasy MMO's and men playing female characters: "If I'm going to spend alot of time watching this character, it might as well have a good looking ass".
Azdan Amith
Doomheim
#2 - 2012-07-31 23:48:30 UTC
There are no accidents with God.

~Archon Azdan Amith,  Order of Light's Retribution
Mekhana
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-07-31 23:51:15 UTC
What do you mean? God itself is an accident. Considering gods are the fabrication of men.

Vide longe er eros di Luminaire VII, uni canse pra krage e determiniex! Sange por Sange! Descanse bravex eros, mie freires. Mortir por vostre Liberete, farmilie, ide e amis. lons Proviste sen mort! Luminaire liber mas! 
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#4 - 2012-07-31 23:56:57 UTC
Azdan Amith wrote:
There are no accidents with God.


You mean s/he intended hangovers to exist?

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Azdan Amith
Doomheim
#5 - 2012-08-01 00:05:01 UTC
Mekhana wrote:
What do you mean? God itself is an accident. Considering gods are the fabrication of men.


First, your argument is flawed because that would not make a god an accident, it would make them an artificial construct of the human imagination.

Second, the fabrication of the mind that God does not exist is the greatest self deceit ever sown by mankind.

Caellach Marellus wrote:
You mean s/he intended hangovers to exist?


Yes, he did.

At the basest of levels it serves as a reminder that we are called to demonstrate self control and restraint lest we bring torment upon ourselves.

~Archon Azdan Amith,  Order of Light's Retribution
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#6 - 2012-08-01 00:13:25 UTC
Azdan Amith wrote:
Yes, he did.


Anyone who could come up with such a barbaric and inhumane means of post depression releasing torture should be shunned from existence, not worshipped.

If I didn't know better, I'd start to think the Amarrian faith attracts those with masochistic tendancies.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#7 - 2012-08-01 00:17:46 UTC
I fear I smell a troll...

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.
Natalcya Katla
Astropolitan Front
#8 - 2012-08-01 00:19:00 UTC
The Amarrian God is no accident, but a skillfully crafted and brilliantly implemented instrument of social control.
Azdan Amith
Doomheim
#9 - 2012-08-01 00:55:28 UTC
Natalcya Katla wrote:
The Amarrian God is no accident, but a skillfully crafted and brilliantly implemented instrument of social control.


Hardly. If this were the case we'd have abandoned the idea long ago as it serves to incite more rebellion, hatred and opposition toward our people than any level of social control.

Caellach Marellus wrote:
Anyone who could come up with such a barbaric and inhumane means of post depression releasing torture should be shunned from existence, not worshipped.


Or you could just learn some self control and you wouldn't have to endure it. Learn self control over a minor inconvenience like a hangover, apply it to larger concepts in life and spare yourself a great deal of hardship in the future.

~Archon Azdan Amith,  Order of Light's Retribution
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#10 - 2012-08-01 01:08:52 UTC
Azdan Amith wrote:
Or you could just learn some self control and you wouldn't have to endure it. Learn self control over a minor inconvenience like a hangover, apply it to larger concepts in life and spare yourself a great deal of hardship in the future.


Seeing certain events in life as minor inconveniences is insulting to their gravity. They're with you to be forever remembered, eating away at your thoughts as you relive them over and over again. When the only release comes with the temporary amnesia found at the bottom of several bottles of alcohol to the point you forget why you started drinking that night in the first place, you'll wake up the next morning with the most painful of headaches.

Then you ask yourself why you were drinking in the first place.

Then you remember.

Then the pain feels many many times worse.


So if you say hangovers are the part of someone's grand design and that design is without mistakes. Then it's a pretty ****** design, or they're a pretty ****** person. Either way, not a God I'd want to follow, either they're inept or sadistic beyond compassion.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Azdan Amith
Doomheim
#11 - 2012-08-01 01:44:06 UTC
I referred to a hangover as a mild inconvenience and suggested that you learn self control.

Secondly, burying your troubles in alcohol is not the most prudent of ways to approach them. I understand the desire to forget at times, but eventually you have to face them and doing so without drowning them in alcohol will allow healing to begin much sooner.

That you personally reject God's design doesn't make it any less God's design, he isn't seeking your approval.

~Archon Azdan Amith,  Order of Light's Retribution
Natalcya Katla
Astropolitan Front
#12 - 2012-08-01 02:15:59 UTC
Azdan Amith wrote:
Hardly. If this were the case we'd have abandoned the idea long ago as it serves to incite more rebellion, hatred and opposition toward our people than any level of social control.


What it's served to do is to assimilate a number of non-Amarr ethnicities into your culture in a very effective way. The Udorians, the Khanid, the Ealurians, the Ni-Kunni, a lot of Minmatar...the list goes on. Outsiders will have their misgivings, sure...but domestically, your religion seems to quell dissent to a much greater extent than fuel it.

I doubt your Empire would have been able to grow to the size it has if your God was such an inefficient instrument of social control as you seem to suggest.
Azdan Amith
Doomheim
#13 - 2012-08-01 02:19:10 UTC
Yet the number of those opposed to the idea and concept of God remains significantly greater and, as has been proven recently, the opposition speaks quite strongly.

I never stated it was an inefficient form of social control, I indicated that it is quite a bit more than simply a construct of social control. You may continue to argue the point if you wish, you will not convince me and I will not convince you.

~Archon Azdan Amith,  Order of Light's Retribution
Mardon Hashur
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2012-08-01 02:26:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Mardon Hashur
Natalcya Katla wrote:
I doubt your Empire would have been able to grow to the size it has if your God was such an inefficient instrument of social control as you seem to suggest.



The reason the Holy Amarr Empire has grown to size it has is because of the will of God. The reason of the stagnation in its growth is for the same reason as its growth: the will of God. And for the reason of social control is that our citizens are true to the church and its teachings.

Sincerly Mardon Hashur
Natalcya Katla
Astropolitan Front
#15 - 2012-08-01 02:35:04 UTC
I, for my part, never said there was anything simple about the scheme. You'll notice my use of the words "skillfully" and "brilliantly", above. And the responses so far don't seem to refute my interpretation at all. The Jita locals would do well to take a few pointers from the Amarrian Empire.

As an aside, it is rare and somewhat amusing to see people get so defensive over a compliment.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#16 - 2012-08-01 02:47:25 UTC
Natalcya Katla wrote:
I, for my part, never said there was anything simple about the scheme. You'll notice my use of the words "skillfully" and "brilliantly", above. And the responses so far don't seem to refute my interpretation at all. The Jita locals would do well to take a few pointers from the Amarrian Empire.


Ms. Katla, I'd agree with you entirely if I actually thought the Empire higher-ups typically believed themselves to be running any kind of scam. I agree that it runs beautifully, and I agree that some people down the line of history may have found it a useful method of control and encouraged it for that reason, but I actually think most Amarrian leaders have historically believed their own propaganda.

... Which is as it should be if you want stability. Genuine belief in your own product cuts down on the dangers inherent in getting your conversations overheard or message account hacked.
Natalcya Katla
Astropolitan Front
#17 - 2012-08-01 03:05:56 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Ms. Katla, I'd agree with you entirely if I actually thought the Empire higher-ups typically believed themselves to be running any kind of scam. I agree that it runs beautifully, and I agree that some people down the line of history may have found it a useful method of control and encouraged it for that reason, but I actually think most Amarrian leaders have historically believed their own propaganda.


That is probably true. And it only makes it more efficient, as you suggest. Sincerely believing in something which directly benefits you only serves to increase the sustainability of that scheme. In that sense, comparing it to Jita scams (even if favorably) is perhaps a bit unfair. That said, it's perfectly plausible that a number of those people, too, genuinely believe they are doing the universe a favor by "preying on the stupid and the greedy".
Hoshisuuvi
Wiyrkomi Honor Guard
#18 - 2012-08-01 03:26:09 UTC
A man asks a meaningless question.

On the street... you keep on walking.

On the IGS... this is a perfect opportunity to debate history, morality, and the fabric of the universe with everyone nearby!
Natalcya Katla
Astropolitan Front
#19 - 2012-08-01 03:47:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Natalcya Katla
Hoshisuuvi wrote:
A man asks a meaningless question.

On the street... you keep on walking.

On the IGS... this is a perfect opportunity to debate history, morality, and the fabric of the universe with everyone nearby!


Of course it is.

If we're going to derail an IGS discussion, why not pick a meaningless one? Would you prefer it if we stuck to just derailing topics of actual interest?

Really, there's no pleasing people.
Gwen Ikiryo
Alexylva Paradox
#20 - 2012-08-01 04:56:30 UTC
If you don't mind me saying, it seems a bit odd to criticize the Amarrian faith for being a method of control, since that's what the vast majority of organized (or even occasionally un-organized) religions... Well, are. That is, a means to impart a collective morality, law and culture to a society, and to encourage subservience from the uneducated.

I don't think this is usually by anyones design, though. There's probably nobody at any point in time muttering about how their "pulling the whool over those fools eyes", wether they actually are or not.

From an athiest standpoint, this is mostly just a happy coincidence. An individual or group of individuals project his/their values into the community, and, via charisma or some other method, they thrive and spread. It all happens nautrally.

And, from an theist one, well, Gods will is literal truth. And, well, everyone is merely following it.
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