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Barge Fairy Tale

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Dave stark
#2481 - 2012-07-31 21:12:48 UTC
Shalua Rui wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
where do you think minerals come from?


Like a kid asking where burgers are coming from...^^


worryingly, i don't think many kids could actually tell you the answer to that.
Pipa Porto
#2482 - 2012-07-31 21:19:08 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:


You were moaning that my brick tank fit was unrealistic during the throws of the permanent HAG (when clearly tanking is needed).


No, I was moaning that after I spent weeks to train an alt for your fitting required V skills and then fitted a Mack with your tank fit, it was horribly performing (35% less, not just some theorycrafted -15% or 20%) AND 1 ganker volley still hit it hard.

The fact I was rabidly watching around me like an hawk and warped in 3 seconds saved me NOT your fitting, at the same time I suffered for a large missed ISK income because of the massive yield drop.


Never did a Mack fit that I claimed to be unprofitable to gank. Never claimed that the Macks didn't need some love.

"Hulk" is not the same word as "Mackinaw."


Quote:

Pipa Porto wrote:

You're saying that you mine in an NPC Corp Orca and Hulk. That means you can't use the Corp Hangars with the Hulk, so you have to Jetcan the ore to transfer it. What's the problem with transferring the Crystals back?


I only have 1 rarely used character in NPC corp (PI alt), all the others are in multiple corps.
Your point was?


Edit:

I will NEVER EVER keep the Orca(s) close to the ships, I am not so dumb to let Bat Country and similar pull a smart bomb and them make a nice taunting video about it.


Smartbomb ganks are terrible against Hulks (you need a ridiculous number of Hulks balled up to even win the ISK war, let alone profit), and Mackinaws don't need crystals.

Multiple corps have identical problems with NPC corps. So,
Pipa Porto wrote:
You're saying that you mine in an Different PC Corp Orca and Hulk. That means you can't use the Corp Hangars with the Hulk, so you have to Jetcan the ore to transfer it. What's the problem with transferring the Crystals back?

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#2483 - 2012-07-31 21:45:12 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:


Never did a Mack fit that I claimed to be unprofitable to gank. Never claimed that the Macks didn't need some love.

"Hulk" is not the same word as "Mackinaw."


Too bad I had Macks (3+ years old, not going to change them before they pop) and not Hulks and you posted Mack fittings so I used Mack fittings.

All your posts ALWAYS implied or downright stated that it was a small giving up of performance vs getting a tank.
I can't blame you for a Mack still being gankable even with 22k EHP but I CAN blame your for saying the "give up" was small.
It was not some 15-20%. The other macks do 10 blocks, your mack does 6 and a bit in the same time.


Pipa Porto wrote:

Multiple corps have identical problems with NPC corps. So,


And? It's FLEETS, fleets of people in corps, in corps that are as "noble" as every other corps and suffer consequences like the other corps.

It's not my fault CCP's implementation today handles multi-corps fleets perfectly and past August 8 it will not.

CCP for the Battlecruisers V to multi racial battlecruiser Tiericide change stated "you'll be able to fly tomorrow what you can fly today".

Good, I want the same applied for mining fleets.

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Suddenly Forums ForumKings
Doomheim
#2484 - 2012-07-31 21:49:30 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:


It's not my fault CCP's implementation today handles multi-corps fleets perfectly and past August 8 it will not.

CCP for the Battlecruisers V to multi racial battlecruiser Tiericide change stated "you'll be able to fly tomorrow what you can fly today".

Good, I want the same applied for mining fleets.


Non sequitur.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2485 - 2012-07-31 21:58:29 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

CCP for the Battlecruisers V to multi racial battlecruiser Tiericide change stated "you'll be able to fly tomorrow what you can fly today".

Good, I want the same applied for mining fleets.

Sometimes in the course of balance things have to come down instead of go up. And the odd thing is that when you take that statement as intended we're actually gaining as 4 of the 6 mining ships will be an easier train.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#2486 - 2012-07-31 22:22:40 UTC
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:


It's not my fault CCP's implementation today handles multi-corps fleets perfectly and past August 8 it will not.

CCP for the Battlecruisers V to multi racial battlecruiser Tiericide change stated "you'll be able to fly tomorrow what you can fly today".

Good, I want the same applied for mining fleets.


Non sequitur.



It's tiericide for both changes. It's existing vs new mechanics for both.

Quidam quod sequitur.

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Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2487 - 2012-07-31 22:23:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Vertisce Soritenshi
I see the forums haven't changed one bit while I was away...

Anybody got a link with info on this new barge people keep talking about? I can't seem to find it.

Nevermind...its just a stats change.

Bunch of whiny little pricks...go cry me a river so I may bathe in your tears.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Dave stark
#2488 - 2012-07-31 22:31:24 UTC
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
I see the forums haven't changed one bit while I was away...

Anybody got a link with info on this new barge people keep talking about? I can't seem to find it.

Nevermind...its just a stats change.

Bunch of whiny little pricks...go cry me a river so I may bathe in your tears.


yeah... because feedback on changes is a bad thing, right?
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#2489 - 2012-07-31 23:14:36 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
I see the forums haven't changed one bit while I was away...

Anybody got a link with info on this new barge people keep talking about? I can't seem to find it.

Nevermind...its just a stats change.

Bunch of whiny little pricks...go cry me a river so I may bathe in your tears.


yeah... because feedback on changes is a bad thing, right?

Of course...Lol
Pipa Porto
#2490 - 2012-07-31 23:26:16 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:


Never did a Mack fit that I claimed to be unprofitable to gank. Never claimed that the Macks didn't need some love.

"Hulk" is not the same word as "Mackinaw."


Too bad I had Macks (3+ years old, not going to change them before they pop) and not Hulks and you posted Mack fittings so I used Mack fittings.

All your posts ALWAYS implied or downright stated that it was a small giving up of performance vs getting a tank.
I can't blame you for a Mack still being gankable even with 22k EHP but I CAN blame your for saying the "give up" was small.
It was not some 15-20%. The other macks do 10 blocks, your mack does 6 and a bit in the same time.


Mining aligned with a Mack gives you perfect safety, and Ice roids are huge and webs work well.

Also, the loss of one Mack is some 30 hours of work. You could also mine Ice in a Hulk.

Quote:

Pipa Porto wrote:

Multiple corps have identical problems with NPC corps. So,


And? It's FLEETS, fleets of people in corps, in corps that are as "noble" as every other corps and suffer consequences like the other corps.

It's not my fault CCP's implementation today handles multi-corps fleets perfectly and past August 8 it will not.

CCP for the Battlecruisers V to multi racial battlecruiser Tiericide change stated "you'll be able to fly tomorrow what you can fly today".

Good, I want the same applied for mining fleets.


You can fly tomorrow what you can fly today. The Skill reqs are being reduced.

CCP's implementation of multi-corp fleets isn't changing. You still have to use jetcans to transfer things, no difference from now.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Pipa Porto
#2491 - 2012-07-31 23:27:04 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
I see the forums haven't changed one bit while I was away...

Anybody got a link with info on this new barge people keep talking about? I can't seem to find it.

Nevermind...its just a stats change.

Bunch of whiny little pricks...go cry me a river so I may bathe in your tears.


yeah... because feedback on changes is a bad thing, right?

Of course...Lol



"Just a stats change" Roll

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#2492 - 2012-07-31 23:33:34 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:

You could also mine Ice in a Hulk.


Not going to switch to it since I already have Macks. Also, after the patch, if Hulks stay as is I am going to keep Macks even dearer. Blink


Pipa Porto wrote:

CCP's implementation of multi-corp fleets isn't changing. You still have to use jetcans to transfer things, no difference from now.


"Have to use?"

Never had to use a jet can. It's a gimnick CCP did not even invent anyway.

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Pipa Porto
#2493 - 2012-07-31 23:47:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:

You could also mine Ice in a Hulk.


Not going to switch to it since I already have Macks. Also, after the patch, if Hulks stay as is I am going to keep Macks even dearer. Blink


Good for you. The fact that you're unwilling to adapt to changing risk profiles isn't a balance issue.

Quote:

Pipa Porto wrote:

CCP's implementation of multi-corp fleets isn't changing. You still have to use jetcans to transfer things, no difference from now.


"Have to use?"

Never had to use a jet can. It's a gimnick CCP did not even invent anyway.


"Have to use?" Yes. To trade items between unaffiliated pilots. You want to use the full capabilities of an Orca's hangars, get in the same corp. "Corp Hangar"

CCP didn't invent the Jetcan? Is it some strange code injection someone's piggybacked on the installer?

Jetcan Mining wasn't intended. Using Jetcans to trade items absolutely was.

Or, you're free to dock up after the hour or two it takes to burn out 3 sets of crystals (cba to look up how long).

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#2494 - 2012-07-31 23:59:51 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:

Good for you. The fact that you're unwilling to adapt to changing risk profiles isn't a balance issue.


Balls. Flying high yeld Macks for years during each Hulkageddon is the most risk profile that exists.

Hulks don't even come close to that.
Come next patch I am just unwilling to play your game.
You and the goons are annoyed because ships got somewhat buffed so you are doing the impossible to at least make playing them a dumb chore. I am not going to become a crystal swapper drone and have all sorts of downsides because you love to "punish" people for not being a flying free target any more.


Pipa Porto wrote:

"Have to use?" Yes. To trade items between unaffiliated pilots. You want to use the full capabilities of an Orca's hangars, get in the same corp. "Corp Hangar"


Had plenty of fleets with NPC corp guys and other corp other friends and never had to use any of your suggested gimnicks including jet cans.

Maybe you should study how Orca fleets work before talking about them.

It's also why I don't see forcing jet canning down the throat as a good thing. Jet cans are one of the preferred features gankers love to see around.
I understand your love for it, but don't pretend I should do the same.

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Pipa Porto
#2495 - 2012-08-01 00:17:09 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:

Good for you. The fact that you're unwilling to adapt to changing risk profiles isn't a balance issue.


Balls. Flying high yeld Macks for years during each Hulkageddon is the most risk profile that exists.

Hulks don't even come close to that.
Come next patch I am just unwilling to play your game.
You and the goons are annoyed because ships got somewhat buffed so you are doing the impossible to at least make playing them a dumb chore. I am not going to become a crystal swapper drone and have all sorts of downsides because you love to "punish" people for not being a flying free target any more.


Wait, that I dare to say that the Skiff should actually be worth flying is evidence that I'm bothered by the idea of buffing mining ships? The Hell?

Right now, the SISI stats make the Skiff worthless and give you a choice between AFK/Solo in a Mack or ATK+Fleeted in a Hulk for extra yield.

I want to see all 3 be viable ships to mine in. You know why I want to see that? Because CCP said that that is their goal with the rebalance. The Hulk has to be slightly uncomfortable to use to make up for the large yield boost it gives. The Mack has to be lower yield to give the Hulk a reason to exist and has to have a mediocre tank to allow the skiff a reason to exist. The Skiff has to be slightly uncomfortable to use solo, or the Mack has no reason to exist.

If you're bothered by Crystal swapping, use one of the Exhumers designed to be convenient and easy to use. Or anchor a GSC. Or put your mining fleet in the same corp. Or use Jetcans. Or fly to the station for all I care.

Skiff = Mac OS. Safe.
Mack = Windows. Not so safe, but it's pretty easy to use.
Hulk = Linux. You gotta work for it.

Quote:

Had plenty of fleets with NPC corp guys and other corp other friends and never had to use any of your suggested gimnicks including jet cans.

Maybe you should study how Orca fleets work before talking about them.

It's also why I don't see forcing jet canning down the throat as a good thing. Jet cans are one of the preferred features gankers love to see around.
I understand your love for it, but don't pretend I should do the same.


The jetcan exists for the 5s it takes for the miner to change out his load of 2 sets of spare crystals. Then it goes poof. I am not suggesting you jetcan the ore except during the hauler's haul run.

I still don't see why it's an overwhelming burden is in having someone drop crystals off for you. Let's see how often you'd need to do it...

20% chance per cycle to do 2.5% damage to the crystal. On average, 5 cycles per damage, and it can survive 40 hits of damage. On average, a crystal will last 200 Cycles, which with max Rorq boosts is 104s/cycle.

20800 seconds is 5.77 hours. So, you need fresh crystals every 5 hours. Oh, the burden. As for switching, if you're in a fleet, size up your belt when you warp in and have different Hulks be responsible for different groups of 3 ores.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Oliver Stoned
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2496 - 2012-08-01 00:21:41 UTC
What did the griefers/gankers say to the industiralists/miners?

HTFU!



It's about stinking time for a change.

HTFU gankers!
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#2497 - 2012-08-01 00:22:09 UTC
Oliver Stoned wrote:
What did the griefers/gankers say to the industiralists/miners?

HTFU!



It's about stinking time for a change.

HTFU gankers!


You're a lil late.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#2498 - 2012-08-01 01:06:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Pipa Porto wrote:

If you're bothered by Crystal swapping, use one of the Exhumers designed to be convenient and easy to use. Or anchor a GSC. Or put your mining fleet in the same corp. Or use Jetcans. Or fly to the station for all I care.


"If you are bothered by my dog peeing on your carpet, you can wash the carpet, remove the carpet, move your door to the other side of the house".

I can invent 50 kinds of workarounds myself, does not mean the very feature has a reason to exist, it's just a trash menial task.


Pipa Porto wrote:

The jetcan exists for the 5s it takes for the miner to change out his load of 2 sets of spare crystals. Then it goes poof. I am not suggesting you jetcan the ore except during the hauler's haul run.

I still don't see why it's an overwhelming burden is in having someone drop crystals off for you. Let's see how often you'd need to do it...


Pockets and anoms exist, let me tell you how fun is it to fly an indy thru 80km and multiple gates.

Today: Nice and dandy. Tomorrow: "We have to dump all our Hulks (that will be worth as much as an awful ship can be) and replace with Macks".

Large grav sites exist, even in high sec: let me tell you how many minerals are in there and how effective is to put ships on 1 mineral.

Today: Nice and dandy. Tomorrow: "Bztttt Bztttt Bztttt" (noise of bot at work, bots don't care about menial tasks).

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Suddenly Forums ForumKings
Doomheim
#2499 - 2012-08-01 01:09:55 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

Pockets and anoms exist, let me tell you how fun is it to fly an indy thru 80km and multiple gates.

Today: Nice and dandy. Tomorrow: "We have to dump all our Hulks (that will be worth as much as an awful ship can be) and replace with Macks".


In other words you're mad you have to buy new ships.
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#2500 - 2012-08-01 01:18:49 UTC
Its more then just buying it. Gotta change everything you do as well. Its one thing for me to go out and buy a new tv. Then another thing to actually use it all the time.

Thats some good advice, the next time you buy a gift for someone. Its more then just buying something.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne