These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Warfare & Tactics

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

Reduce the lp payout for fw missions
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#1 - 2012-07-31 15:29:08 UTC
At fanfest ccp said they thought that plexing should yield higher pay than mission running.

Currently it doesn't.

Hopefully CCP will implement changes that make plexing lead to even more pvp. This is good in itself. However, it will widen the divide between lp you can earn from plexing and the lp you can earn from missions.

There are several reasons that plexing - especially in a system where it brings about pvp - should earn more loyalty points than mission running.

1) There is more risk in a pvp activity. (again I anticipate ccp will continue to strive to make plexing a pvp activity)


2) Since you only earn lp from offensive plexing that means that you are likely gaining the most lp when your faction is losing. Accordingly it provides a balance. However if the winning side can make much more lp from missions then ccp is rewarding the people who just jump to the winning side after its ahead.

I have mission running alts in the opposing militia. Yet I still advocate this change because I think the large gains should go primarilly to those who are pvping/plexing and winning sov, not those who just put an alt in the winning side's camp.

How much of a reduction? I think that somewhat depends on what they do with plexing. But if they do any of the recomended changes to plexing then I think some lp nerf to missions would be in order.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#2 - 2012-07-31 16:01:44 UTC
Only L4 missions pay too much. Others pay out little compared to plexing LP.

1. Fix plex mechanics. Appropriate effort for appropriate sized plex.
2. Plex rewards should increase exponentially with plex size just like mission rewards.
3. Scale FW mission rewards if they are still out of line with plex rewards.

Done.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#3 - 2012-07-31 17:23:03 UTC
stop crying changes for FW.

EVERY CHANGE HAS ONLY MADE THING WORSE.

stop changing FW
Wenron
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2012-07-31 17:26:56 UTC
I am seeing more gunless plex alts than missioners these days.

At least to run a lvl4 you have to earn the standings and have a couple weeks worth of skills. FWIW.
Vyktor Abyss
Abyss Research
#5 - 2012-07-31 17:58:03 UTC
YATCP

(Yet Another Terrible Cearin Post .... for the uninitiated.)
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69
Crouching Woman Hidden Cucumber
#6 - 2012-07-31 22:39:53 UTC
Cearain wrote:
I have mission running alts in the opposing militia. Yet I still advocate this change because the profitability of that has just dropped massively



While I agree and am in the exact same boat, lets not beat around the bush, we milked it but it has to go. I think a blanket nerf of FW LP stores is needed generally or people will flood here for the ISK and nothing else.

Making 10bn over a weekend playing solo casually is not what Eve needs, and is ruining FW. FW should not be about making money it should be about PVP.
BolsterBomb
Perkone
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-07-31 22:51:37 UTC  |  Edited by: BolsterBomb
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69 wrote:
Cearain wrote:
I have mission running alts in the opposing militia. Yet I still advocate this change because the profitability of that has just dropped massively



While I agree and am in the exact same boat, lets not beat around the bush, we milked it but it has to go. I think a blanket nerf of FW LP stores is needed generally or people will flood here for the ISK and nothing else.

Making 10bn over a weekend playing solo casually is not what Eve needs, and is ruining FW. FW should not be about making money it should be about PVP.



It should be about both. FW is the only pocket of space that does not have the availability of income like the other zones. (if you take LP out)

LP is what makes FW doable.

High Sec has virtually any type of activity to support income except anomalies

FW has missions (now plexes)

0.0 has everything under the sun

If you take LP out nothing is appealing about low sec except the fights. How do you make income, oh yea you're going to have to leave low sec to do that. Without income there are no fights.

FW will fix itself.

Its very simple : Supply and demand

The more navy faction mods/ships the supply goes way up which means prices plummet (ravens are what 380m on sells right now?)

What you are speaking of is a market balance right now.

This is actually a priority within the cal militia and is being talked about on how to release items without crashing the market.

If LP to ISK value plummets people will leave and the cycle starts all over. The other thing CCP could do to fix this is make more ships viable for pvping in the LP store. Players would then cash in for their own ships rather then just dump. Say create more battleships and battlecruisers.....

Brig General of The Caldari State

"Don" Bolsterbomb

Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation
Garr Earthbender
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2012-07-31 22:52:53 UTC
I wanna make isk and PVP a ton. So I play FW. I am going to be able to make about 2-5 bill a month from plexing. Also, I get to chose whether to be bored spinning a button, or fight. I chose to spin a button for a week, then PVP the other 3. I like it.

FW is fine. I was never able to make isk before (didn't want to train for 1 specific ship to do lvl 4 FW missions} and I can now. If I put my nose to the grindstone, I should be rewarded.

-Scissors is overpowered, rock is fine. -Paper
Generals4
#9 - 2012-07-31 22:56:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Generals4
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69 wrote:
Cearain wrote:
I have mission running alts in the opposing militia. Yet I still advocate this change because the profitability of that has just dropped massively



While I agree and am in the exact same boat, lets not beat around the bush, we milked it but it has to go. I think a blanket nerf of FW LP stores is needed generally or people will flood here for the ISK and nothing else.

Making 10bn over a weekend playing solo casually is not what Eve needs, and is ruining FW. FW should not be about making money it should be about PVP.


No. It would be too easy to fix it now the tide is turning. It is time to let the amarr get a piece of the cake for a while. Once they had their piece it should be fixed.

_-Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. _
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#10 - 2012-07-31 23:29:31 UTC
BolsterBomb wrote:

If you take LP out nothing is appealing about low sec except the fights. How do you make income, oh yea you're going to have to leave low sec to do that. Without income there are no fights.
Anomalies, L4-L5 missions.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#11 - 2012-07-31 23:36:33 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
Generals4 wrote:
No. It would be too easy to fix it now the tide is turning. It is time to let the amarr get a piece of the cake for a while. Once they had their piece it should be fixed.

I don't think they're going to do anything major until winter expansion. They need to see the full ramifications of this implementation of FW. It was designed for major disruption in Eve, and it certainly has done that.

FW = Watering hole for large beaten up 0.0 alliances.
FW = Massive nerf to High sec mission payouts
FW = Huge isk sink in Eve economy (farmers get rich while sinking isk into LP store)
FW = Massive numbers of small scale fights.
FW = Farmers dream activity.
FW = Destabilizing force on Eve Economy.

etc...
Pinky Feldman
Amarrian Vengeance
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#12 - 2012-08-01 00:31:40 UTC
BolsterBomb wrote:
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69 wrote:
Cearain wrote:
I have mission running alts in the opposing militia. Yet I still advocate this change because the profitability of that has just dropped massively



While I agree and am in the exact same boat, lets not beat around the bush, we milked it but it has to go. I think a blanket nerf of FW LP stores is needed generally or people will flood here for the ISK and nothing else.

Making 10bn over a weekend playing solo casually is not what Eve needs, and is ruining FW. FW should not be about making money it should be about PVP.



It should be about both. FW is the only pocket of space that does not have the availability of income like the other zones. (if you take LP out)

LP is what makes FW doable.

High Sec has virtually any type of activity to support income except anomalies

FW has missions (now plexes)

0.0 has everything under the sun

If you take LP out nothing is appealing about low sec except the fights. How do you make income, oh yea you're going to have to leave low sec to do that. Without income there are no fights.

FW will fix itself.

Its very simple : Supply and demand

The more navy faction mods/ships the supply goes way up which means prices plummet (ravens are what 380m on sells right now?)

What you are speaking of is a market balance right now.

This is actually a priority within the cal militia and is being talked about on how to release items without crashing the market.

If LP to ISK value plummets people will leave and the cycle starts all over. The other thing CCP could do to fix this is make more ships viable for pvping in the LP store. Players would then cash in for their own ships rather then just dump. Say create more battleships and battlecruisers.....


I agree it should be about both to some degree, but the current issue is that the payout/effort in FW is wayyyy out of line with the rest of EVE. Its not even comparable. Part of this is probably because I don't think they expected Tier 5 to be attainable at whim and expected more fighting in between, but you have to remember that on the Amarr/Min side compard to the Cal/Gal side which only sees tier 4, is that even with weekly tier 5 pushes, you are still making 5k ISK/LP worst case scenario in a crashed market.

Lowsec definitely needs a buff, FW definitely needs an incentive to join, but the current issue is that they've made things SO ridiculously lucrative that when things are dropped to a more reasonable level peoples expectations will already be so high, it will be hard to gauge the reaction to the warzone as a whole. I'm mostly worried about CCPs inability to hit balance on the first or second iteration and after we get our winter patch, I wonder how long it will be or if they ever try to fine tune their changes.

The moar you cry the less you pee
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#13 - 2012-08-01 01:29:19 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
X Gallentius wrote:

FW = Huge isk sink in Eve economy (farmers get rich while sinking isk into LP store)

etc...


Actually Tier 5 FW LP store is an ISK sink reduction of 75% per item
I suspect when things stabilize we'll see the LP store ISK sink for February be reduced from this years 6 trillion to 4 trillion ISK.
FW is not increasing demand ( except maybe soon for Nulli's Navy Apocolypse NEXUS chips which are pure LP no ISK sink ) of LP store items by making them cheaper or have +4 & +5 learning implants spiked in sales which I'm unaware of?
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#14 - 2012-08-01 03:33:11 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Actually Tier 5 FW LP store is an ISK sink reduction of 75% per item
I suspect when things stabilize we'll see the LP store ISK sink for February be reduced from this years 6 trillion to 4 trillion ISK.
FW is not increasing demand ( except maybe soon for Nulli's Navy Apocolypse NEXUS chips which are pure LP no ISK sink ) of LP store items by making them cheaper or have +4 & +5 learning implants spiked in sales which I'm unaware of?

Per item yes. More LP is being earned and turned in overall (I believe, maybe not) and on a per LP basis the sink is still the same. So, bigger isk sink.
Dynast
Room for Improvement
Good Sax
#15 - 2012-08-01 04:33:26 UTC
Not sure the rate of LP returns for level 4 FW missions are really a problem. You can reasonably do something like 60-70k LP an hour. This is similar to what you can get from plexing. Theoretical numbers are higher, but in practice more is not sustainable.

It's pretty easy to pick up 3-4 missions within a reasonable (<10) number of jumps, for more you end up needing to tack on an extra 10+ minutes of travel per set. Two of the missions are time-consuming, and another is half LP, so per set you usually end up with less than 20-22k per mission. If you try to keep up doing sets of missions you either get stuck doing the non-optimal missions or running out of declines on your agents (and there aren't another 20-30 agents to choose from, as high sec agents have). Also.. spend a lot of time running missions in the same general area, and you start attracting interest, which can make missioning impossible.

The real problem is the 4x multipliers on LP store prices. They never should have gone past something like 1.5x cost at rank 1, and 0.75x cost at rank 5. The ISK/hr numbers come back to earth with those fixed.. and put losing militias in a far less crippled state, financially.
Generals4
#16 - 2012-08-01 09:42:23 UTC
Dynast wrote:
Not sure the rate of LP returns for level 4 FW missions are really a problem. You can reasonably do something like 60-70k LP an hour. This is similar to what you can get from plexing. Theoretical numbers are higher, but in practice more is not sustainable.

It's pretty easy to pick up 3-4 missions within a reasonable (<10) number of jumps, for more you end up needing to tack on an extra 10+ minutes of travel per set. Two of the missions are time-consuming, and another is half LP, so per set you usually end up with less than 20-22k per mission. If you try to keep up doing sets of missions you either get stuck doing the non-optimal missions or running out of declines on your agents (and there aren't another 20-30 agents to choose from, as high sec agents have). Also.. spend a lot of time running missions in the same general area, and you start attracting interest, which can make missioning impossible.

The real problem is the 4x multipliers on LP store prices. They never should have gone past something like 1.5x cost at rank 1, and 0.75x cost at rank 5. The ISK/hr numbers come back to earth with those fixed.. and put losing militias in a far less crippled state, financially.


Before inferno when i used missions for LP i could get 80-120k LP per hour depending on the missions i was offered (and where they sent me). Off course special circumstances such as people hunting you down can lower that number but it is very possible.

_-Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. _
Dynast
Room for Improvement
Good Sax
#17 - 2012-08-01 10:10:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Dynast
Generals4 wrote:
Before inferno when i used missions for LP i could get 80-120k LP per hour depending on the missions i was offered (and where they sent me). Off course special circumstances such as people hunting you down can lower that number but it is very possible.

I agree that it's possible, I've done it as well. The caveat is that it's not sustainable, because of the combination of low LP 'Cut the Net' missions, the need to either do lengthy 'Uproot' and 'Halt the Invasion' missions or lose the use of the agent(s) for four hours, and the need to do 20+ lowsec jumps (on average) per set of missions. Missions force you to move around in a way that deliberately exposes you to the hazards of lowsec. In contrast, when farming plexes you can choose to target low traffic systems and avoid pipes that get blocked by insta-lock t3 camps.

My experience in the Caldari Militia has been that I can do a steady 60k LP farming FW plexes, sometimes better, if I prioritize farming over getting fights, over the course of several hours. I can do a little bit better doing FW missions, but the effort required is substantially more. Though you do get a pittance of ISK and some decent loot if you shoot the BS rats for tags and meta 4 mods.
Cpt Branko
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2012-08-01 14:03:16 UTC
BolsterBomb wrote:
Without income there are no fights.


Nonsense.

There was always pvp in low-sec. In big ships, even, far before FW.

However, even if FWers need a source of income, don't you think making billions in mere days using the cheapest ships in the game, T1 frigs, is a bit... broken? It's better income then 0.0 mission farming which is actually quite decent, but you do need standings (not such a problem), a decent ship which costs something, and an alt & corp is more or less necessary.
BolsterBomb
Perkone
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-08-01 15:36:20 UTC
Cpt Branko wrote:
BolsterBomb wrote:
Without income there are no fights.


Nonsense.

There was always pvp in low-sec. In big ships, even, far before FW.

However, even if FWers need a source of income, don't you think making billions in mere days using the cheapest ships in the game, T1 frigs, is a bit... broken? It's better income then 0.0 mission farming which is actually quite decent, but you do need standings (not such a problem), a decent ship which costs something, and an alt & corp is more or less necessary.



Do you even know what we fly?

People fly t1 frigs because they are broke dude. You think us FW guys want to stay in BC and below. Most people fly these because of isk issues not because they dont want to.

And for the record, you do not billions a day. You must wait until the proper time for the LP dump and then you have to fight everyone crashing the market at the same time. FW LP is a sit and wait game where 00 missions and all the other activities pay immediately.

Im still sitting on a ton of faction ships that I will not sell because the market is crap right now.

FW pilots can go a whole month without cashing in. Its like living paycheck to paycheck. Right when you get paid its awesome but wait awhile as your ships go boom, then you go aww sheit

Brig General of The Caldari State

"Don" Bolsterbomb

Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#20 - 2012-08-01 15:44:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Xuixien
Cpt Branko wrote:
BolsterBomb wrote:
Without income there are no fights.


Nonsense.

There was always pvp in low-sec. In big ships, even, far before FW.


Wait, so before FW ships were free?

I don't even.

I need to stop flying these expensive frigates and get in one some of that free BC action.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
12Next page