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Hauling in and out of nullsec
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terzslave
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-07-30 12:21:11 UTC  |  Edited by: terzslave
I am currently training up three PI alts to move into nullsec and start several single p2's. I am in an alliance with sov and all that but my question is:

What hauling ships should I train up to, to move my PI stuff out to highsec to sell and until i get to use those ships what ships along that training path could I use to haul? Also how should I fit them?

Also is there any general advice on nullsec single p2's?
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-07-30 12:46:01 UTC
Contract with your alliances jump freighter wing?
TheAmazingFlyingPig
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-07-30 16:07:54 UTC
If you want a solo hauler that's fairly safe in Null, go for a Blockade Runner.

I can't tell you how many trips I've gone on in-and-out of null in my Viator without so much as being targeted. I've hit bubbles, gone through gate camps...

You'll be sacrificing cargo for this kind of mobility though, and don't try to make up the cargo loss with expanders. You need every bit of agility you can get.

If you want to outsource your work to an alliance member, however, the post above me is right-on with the jump freighter.
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-07-30 17:28:03 UTC
Unless you can get a jump freighter yourself, cooperating with someone who has one will be much faster, safer, and easier for you.
Jason McCoy
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-07-30 17:44:02 UTC
TheAmazingFlyingPig wrote:
If you want a solo hauler that's fairly safe in Null, go for a Blockade Runner.

I can't tell you how many trips I've gone on in-and-out of null in my Viator without so much as being targeted. I've hit bubbles, gone through gate camps...

You'll be sacrificing cargo for this kind of mobility though, and don't try to make up the cargo loss with expanders. You need every bit of agility you can get.

If you want to outsource your work to an alliance member, however, the post above me is right-on with the jump freighter.

spot on and the one above him too
Dave Stark
#6 - 2012-07-30 18:10:35 UTC
another +1 for blockade runner or jump freighter. they are the only real way to move things around in null. bonus points if you can have an alt to scout/cyno etc.
Quinc4623
Space Explorers Federation
#7 - 2012-07-30 21:20:39 UTC
A related question: Has anyone tried moving around it Null-Sec with a Deep Space transport? I have had a lot of success in Low-Sec with a Mastodon, but long range in Null-Sec is a different matter. Also I wonder how they interact with warp bubbles. Do warp core stabilizers protect you from getting pulled into a warp bubble? Do you get pulled in and then warp out from the middle? Does a warp bubble apply 1 point, overlapping warp bubbles? Has anyone met success or failure trekking through null-sec in a Deep Space Transport?
Styth spiting
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2012-07-30 21:27:06 UTC
Quinc4623 wrote:
A related question: Has anyone tried moving around it Null-Sec with a Deep Space transport? I have had a lot of success in Low-Sec with a Mastodon, but long range in Null-Sec is a different matter. Also I wonder how they interact with warp bubbles. Do warp core stabilizers protect you from getting pulled into a warp bubble? Do you get pulled in and then warp out from the middle? Does a warp bubble apply 1 point, overlapping warp bubbles? Has anyone met success or failure trekking through null-sec in a Deep Space Transport?


Nope they don't help.. This is why the deep space transports are great for lowsec, but are awful (without a scout) for null. When a mastadon hits a bubble you might as well just eject from your ship because its gone.

Blockade runners work great for bubbles though, but at 1/15th the cargohold space.
Ryelek d'Entari
Horizon Glare
#9 - 2012-07-30 21:27:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Ryelek d'Entari
Warp core stabilizers don't help vs. bubbles.


[edit:beaten to the punchline]
Lambert Simnel
PWLS Enterprises
#10 - 2012-07-31 00:23:49 UTC
Blockade runners are your best option but they are expensive and have a long train to operate properly.

If that is an issue then you can just use a T1 industrial. I haven't operated in null sec but I just use a Sigil and take basic precautions when operating in low sec. I use safe spots in every system, cloaks, instadocks and undocks in system, I can recognise who is who in local and can avoid/escape most gate camps. More importantly I keep the cargo value low because at some point its inevitable I will lose a ship or two.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#11 - 2012-07-31 00:28:35 UTC
Lambert Simnel wrote:
Blockade runners are your best option but they are expensive and have a long train to operate properly.

If that is an issue then you can just use a T1 industrial. I haven't operated in null sec but I just use a Sigil and take basic precautions when operating in low sec. I use safe spots in every system, cloaks, instadocks and undocks in system, I can recognise who is who in local and can avoid/escape most gate camps. More importantly I keep the cargo value low because at some point its inevitable I will lose a ship or two.


The problem with the idea of keeping your value low is that you either are very limited in what you can carry around or you have to commit to many, many trips, which adds to your expenses (time spent hauling isn't free, right?).

At any rate, yes, you can use a T1 industrial, especially in low, and especially if you invest in bookmarks. But you can operate a Blockade Runner in low with near impunity (your only risk really being undocks). Null is a bit harder on either ship type what with bubbles and all; your best defense is to get a damn scout.
Styth spiting
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2012-07-31 04:14:31 UTC
There is no way a blockade runner would serve as a useful way of transport for 3 characters PI. 3 characters/15 planets will make between 800,000m3 worth of p1 - 135,000m3 worth of p4. Even at p4 that would be about 20 trips of hauling in a blockade runner.

The cost of using a null freighter service will be equal to the cost of 1 blockade runner, minus the loss of cargo.
Sola Mercury
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2012-07-31 08:05:30 UTC
... or you may use wormholes.
Scout w-space, you will encounter routes leading to high sec more often as you may guess.
use a DSP to transport and scouts.
terzslave
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#14 - 2012-07-31 08:37:03 UTC  |  Edited by: terzslave
Okay so looks like I'll probably be getting corp mates to jump freight it for me. Another question is how do I get the command center into nullsec in the first place and what should I use to move PI stuff from the POCO the the station.

Edit: Okay so I asked around and my corp mate is chargin 400isk per 1m^3. Will this be worth it for hauling 3 PI alts with 15 planets each of P2 commodities?
Tess La'Coil
Messerschmitt Vertrieb und Logistik
#15 - 2012-07-31 10:23:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Tess La'Coil
terzslave wrote:
Okay so looks like I'll probably be getting corp mates to jump freight it for me. Another question is how do I get the command center into nullsec in the first place and what should I use to move PI stuff from the POCO the the station.

I'd advice with the same jump freighter.

terzslave wrote:
Edit: Okay so I asked around and my corp mate is chargin 400isk per 1m^3. Will this be worth it for hauling 3 PI alts with 15 planets each of P2 commodities?
400isk/m3 seems reasonable. Most do it for that price.

If he's making a profit is highly dependant on the amount of jumps the JF has to take to get there. Is he only jumping to highsec?
Seeing as your alliance has one home system I'll make a rough guesstimate:
To jump in/to the lowsec system near your homebase. +- 20k isotopes at current price 800isk he shouldn't be charging over 16mil isk if he says he's doing it purely "to help" how much you tip will keep it that that price, if you're min-maxing off a JF pilot you'll be looking for a new one rather soon.
Look at approximately 12.8mil for shipping to Jita using push industries.

You should base your cost vs profit for a run on 350k m3 (general sizing of a JF) and keep your highsec shipping collateral below 1bil isk, or you'll have to double the highsec shipping costs. The collateral and 1bil limit will keep the chance of highsec ganks low, and the risk to your income even lower.

Depends on your size/price/amount of produced PI.
Someone once said I was a muppet. If that's so, I'm quite sure the Swedish Chef is my brother. 
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2012-07-31 11:15:48 UTC
terzslave wrote:
Edit: Okay so I asked around and my corp mate is chargin 400isk per 1m^3. Will this be worth it for hauling 3 PI alts with 15 planets each of P2 commodities?


Really? You know your volume per unit of PI. You can check the prices on the market. Simple math.
terzslave
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-07-31 11:21:10 UTC
@ Derath Ellecon Well actually no I don't as I haven't started the PI yet, I'm only training the alts and am planning how I'm going to be able to get stuff out.

Okay so my corp is saying that they'll jump the pi stuff from null to our "staging system" in lowsec and their telling me that I'll have to haul it myself from there with a blockade runner.

There are several problems with this. First of all a blockade runner only has a cargo space of 3500m^3 and I'm planning to haul around 350,000m^3 so this is not an option. Second of all 350,000 x 400 is around 140mil.

So for the first problem is it unreasonable of me to ask them to jump it to a highsec tradehub and if so how should I get the stuff from lowsec to highsec and is 140mil the usual cost for 350k volume worth of P2 stuff?
Oska Rus
Free Ice Cream People
#18 - 2012-07-31 11:33:38 UTC
with those PI facilies youll generate about 25000 m3 a week (I have similar setup.) So only viable way of transporting is jump freighter. Your corp should be able to provide such service for reasonable fee.
terzslave
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-07-31 12:43:55 UTC
Oska Rus wrote:
with those PI facilies youll generate about 25000 m3 a week (I have similar setup.) So only viable way of transporting is jump freighter. Your corp should be able to provide such service for reasonable fee.


I'm curious to know. Are you getting 25000 m^3 a week from Three alts, 15 single planets making p2 running on 30 minute 1 day cycles?
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2012-07-31 12:44:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Derath Ellecon
terzslave wrote:
@ Derath Ellecon Well actually no I don't as I haven't started the PI yet, I'm only training the alts and am planning how I'm going to be able to get stuff out.


Huh? Search PI product. Show info. its not that hard to do a little research.

For example. Coolant is 1.5m3 per unit. according to eve central it is selling in jita for around 6500.

1.5 * 400 = 600isk per unit to JF. 6500 - 600= 5900 per unit profit.



terzslave wrote:
Okay so my corp is saying that they'll jump the pi stuff from null to our "staging system" in lowsec and their telling me that I'll have to haul it myself from there with a blockade runner.

There are several problems with this. First of all a blockade runner only has a cargo space of 3500m^3 and I'm planning to haul around 350,000m^3 so this is not an option. Second of all 350,000 x 400 is around 140mil.

So for the first problem is it unreasonable of me to ask them to jump it to a highsec tradehub and if so how should I get the stuff from lowsec to highsec and is 140mil the usual cost for 350k volume worth of P2 stuff?


Depending on the staging area you have a number of options.

1. If there is a station and it one jump from HS, and quiet. You could scout in a bigger ship, such as DST to haul to HS
2. Use black frog to get it to HS. Haul it yourself from there.
3. Use black frog to get it to HS. Use Red frog to get it to market.
edit
4. Ask your corp what they would charge to drop it in HS for you.

As a few examples.
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