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Why are CCP redesigning Exhumers around high-sec suicide gangs?

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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#81 - 2012-07-31 03:53:05 UTC
Garreth Vlox wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Lady Spank wrote:
They were never intended to be used in high sec anyway.

dangers of deep space

LoL

So ever ship that is more resilient is not designed for High Sec. Like saying an SUV is designed for off road so you should not drive it on roads.

The guys who buy the ship decide what it is intended for.


ROFL

ok by that reasoning you can put guns on a Rorq and go kick someones ass because you decide what the ships does. All those role bonuses and skill effects are just suggestions.

You don't need guns. You have empty slots and a drone bay, be creative.
Alara IonStorm
#82 - 2012-07-31 03:55:15 UTC
Garreth Vlox wrote:

ROFL

ok by that reasoning you can put guns on a Rorq and go kick someones ass because you decide what the ships does. All those role bonuses and skill effects are just suggestions.

Not at all by my reasoning. You are talking about a ships base capabilities.

A Hulks base capabilities never made it worse for High Sec or impeded its performance in High Sec. A Rorq has no gun slots and has limitations as a gun boat, the Hulk has no such mining limitations.

The fluff text says the defensive capabilities are suited to be able handle Deep Space dangers like an SUV is suited to off roading.
Sid Hudgens
Doomheim
#83 - 2012-07-31 04:00:13 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
They were never intended to be used in high sec anyway.

I'm not concerned with the actual changes CCP are making to these ships but the thought process that goes behind it and it's ramifications for the game as a whole. CCP are catering to the casual players and in doing so are turning New Eden from a dark and consequence filled universe to that of a hand-holding nanny state.

Quote:
The Hulk is the largest craft in the second generation of mining vessels created by the ORE Syndicate. Exhumers, like their mining barge cousins, are equipped with electronic subsystems specifically designed to accommodate Strip Mining modules. They are also far more resilient, better able to handle the dangers of deep space. The Hulk is, bar none, the most efficient mining vessel available.


Quote:
The Skiff is the smallest of the second generation of mining vessels created by the ORE Syndicate. Exhumers, like their mining barge cousins, are equipped with electronic subsystems specifically designed to accommodate Strip Mining modules. They are also far more resilient, better able to handle the dangers of deep space. Skiffs are specialty vessels, designed to mine Mercoxit.


Quote:
The Mackinaw is the medium-sized version of the second generation of mining vessels created by the ORE Syndicate. Exhumers, like their mining barge cousins, are equipped with electronic subsystems specifically designed to accommodate Strip Mining modules. They are also far more resilient, better able to handle the dangers of deep space. The Mackinaw is a specialty vessel, ideally suited for ice mining.


Clearly they were not intended for the starter systems which comprise high-sec empire.


Rock, meet paper.

Your move.

"....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced."
Suqq Madiq
#84 - 2012-07-31 04:08:15 UTC
Please stop reminding Spank what an awful poster he is. He hasn't responded to this thread in pages and I think you may have scared him away. However, do feel free to continue poking holes in his terrible excuse for an argument.
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#85 - 2012-07-31 04:12:50 UTC
Suqq Madiq wrote:
Please stop reminding Spank what an awful poster he is. He hasn't responded to this thread in pages and I think you may have scared him away. However, do feel free to continue poking holes in his terrible excuse for an argument.

I have a better idea: suqq madiq.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Major Bibi
#86 - 2012-07-31 04:44:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Major Bibi
Lady Spank wrote:
Thank you for confirming the new quotes cleverly remove any reference to their original intended use in 'deep space'.

I'm still surprised that high-sec miners never actually adapted to all the suicide ganging and simply carried on getting themselves killed but I suppose that says more about society and their senses of entitlement than it does about internet spaceships.

I have never been suicide ganked even once, I don't know how other people make such big targets of themselves and then expect to have a right to complain.

some did , the ones who read the forums , there still plenty out there that will not or are not even aware there is a forum and devblogs, so i sometimes find it hard to understand why so many gankers are acting like it is the end of the world
you probably will still find alot of them who will not even bother to tank the buffed up mack or skiff, because of some false sense of security, if they get ganked and they will it is their fault not some gamemechanic gankers will need to learn how to scan their intended targets first i guess
Kryss Darkdust
The Skulls
#87 - 2012-07-31 08:04:05 UTC
The reason suicide ganking exists is the unrealistic outcome of insurance pay outs. Not even in a fantasy distant future would anyone pay an insurance claim of someone who committed a crime and lost his ship in the process, its stupid. All CCP needed to do was invalidate insurance if you are blown up by concord if they are so concerned about sucide ganking.

The reality of Eve is that, if you don't love it like it is today, you should probobly go ahead and unsub. 
Alara IonStorm
#88 - 2012-07-31 08:10:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Kryss Darkdust wrote:
The reason suicide ganking exists is the unrealistic outcome of insurance pay outs. Not even in a fantasy distant future would anyone pay an insurance claim of someone who committed a crime and lost his ship in the process, its stupid. All CCP needed to do was invalidate insurance if you are blown up by concord if they are so concerned about sucide ganking.

Insurance for Suicide Gankers has been removed since Crucible.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2012-07-31 08:53:30 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:

then the engineer says "alright, here's a new design that is far more resilient but it can't mine much and well we're going to have to put a half-billion price tag on it because R&D ain't free"

next sentence engineer will say in another company. this is how RL business works: client is always right - he brings money.
And no, client will not pay billions "because R&D isn't free". Thats why you buy games for $10 EUR and not for $10000 EUR each.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Kryss Darkdust
The Skulls
#90 - 2012-07-31 08:53:30 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Kryss Darkdust wrote:
The reason suicide ganking exists is the unrealistic outcome of insurance pay outs. Not even in a fantasy distant future would anyone pay an insurance claim of someone who committed a crime and lost his ship in the process, its stupid. All CCP needed to do was invalidate insurance if you are blown up by concord if they are so concerned about sucide ganking.

Insurance for Suicide Gankers has been removed since Crucible.


Hmm news to me, but than again, I don't sucide gank. In that case I'm confused how sucide gankers profit in any way? Seems like a complete loss and waste of time.

The reality of Eve is that, if you don't love it like it is today, you should probobly go ahead and unsub. 
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#91 - 2012-07-31 08:57:25 UTC
^ they increased the amount of T2 salvage from wrecks. The hulks modules, as well as useing destroyers to gank them.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#92 - 2012-07-31 08:57:40 UTC
Kryss Darkdust wrote:
Hmm news to me, but than again, I don't sucide gank. In that case I'm confused how sucide gankers profit in any way? Seems like a complete loss and waste of time.


A sane person would think so, hu? Blink

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#93 - 2012-07-31 09:08:00 UTC
Garreth Vlox wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Lady Spank wrote:
They were never intended to be used in high sec anyway.

dangers of deep space

LoL

So ever ship that is more resilient is not designed for High Sec. Like saying an SUV is designed for off road so you should not drive it on roads.

The guys who buy the ship decide what it is intended for.


ROFL

ok by that reasoning you can put guns on a Rorq and go kick someones ass because you decide what the ships does. All those role bonuses and skill effects are just suggestions.

hm.. funny thing is: this is exactly right. That's how people make video like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cteLclUkdIo

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
nat longshot
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#94 - 2012-07-31 09:22:24 UTC  |  Edited by: nat longshot
Lady Spank wrote:
Denidil wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
Nice quoting. Let me join in.
...


Translation: We changed things. Get over it. And why aren't you posting in the pre-existing threadnaught?



edit: To be fair, I like the "not a high-sec ship" twist to justify a "new" thread. Good trolling fundamentals. Kudos to Lady Spank.


because she's special, and we should pat her on the back for her original insights which no other gankbear scrub has ever whined before.


Feel free to point out any high sec suicide gank I have taken part in, because I don't recall ever having done so. Thanks for proving how worthless your opinion is since you are incapable of posting objectively.


Lady Ayeipsia wrote:
Deep space is defined as any region of outer space beyond the earth and moon.

So again, how is deep space limited to nul? Deep space is pretty much anywhere in eve. If you wish to refine the definition, it would at best be any part of space outside the influence of any planet's gravitational pull. That would still fit for belts in hi, low, or nul sec.

Come on, you can troll better than this.


Feel free to point this out in the New Eden dictionary. Stop using old fashioned Earth definitions as they are irrelevant.



No there not irrelevant if you have read at all alot of eve is based on earth definitions. given all of eve's "humans" can be traced back to earth and earth definitions. If that was not true then were did the amarr get a earth weapon? oh that right they use there history to find it. Now how are earth'sdefinitions irrelevant?


ok lets change it to this "Deep space is defined as any region of outer space beyond a Planet and moon."

 [13:12:18] CCP Punkturis nat longshot you're a cutie.. OH YAH I WIN!!
nat longshot
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#95 - 2012-07-31 09:36:21 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Deep_Space_Scanner_Probe_I

Again, deep space is not the same aa nul sec. If it was, these probes would be limited to nul/wormhole only much like interdictor probes.

Deep space is any area of space outside the bounds of a planet's gravitational influence. You have deep space pockets all over, including grav sites where one could mine.


Those grav sites are within 4au of a celestial and not in deep space.


and in miles what is 4 ua? well here it is 92,955,807.273 mi is one au so 4 au is 371,823,229 miles or 4 times what the earth is from the sun. so yes that is deepspace. so you wrong and fail yet again.

 [13:12:18] CCP Punkturis nat longshot you're a cutie.. OH YAH I WIN!!
Spy 21
Doomheim
#96 - 2012-07-31 09:36:54 UTC
The D1ngo wrote:
[quote=James Amril-Kesh][quote=CCP Goliath]
I don't think he "dodged" anything...I think he put the facts right in your face. Stuck it right in. In fact, one could say that you and all of the "weak-tanked trolls" in this thread got ganked. Should have fit a damage control 2 on your pie hole.


Ambivalent to the OP and this thread in general but I must say this is the best slam I have seen in a long time :)

S

Obfuscation for the WIN on page 3...
Doddy
Excidium.
#97 - 2012-07-31 10:11:43 UTC
Shalua Rui wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
maybe high-sec was never intended to be battlefield for the richest 0.0-sec alliance which refunds any ganking losses to its members?


I have to agree there.


So ban goons and exhumers from hi sec, who do you think would be most upset by that?
Dave stark
#98 - 2012-07-31 10:24:58 UTC
Doddy wrote:
Shalua Rui wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
maybe high-sec was never intended to be battlefield for the richest 0.0-sec alliance which refunds any ganking losses to its members?


I have to agree there.


So ban goons and exhumers from hi sec, who do you think would be most upset by that?


give my exhumer jump drives and the inability to use gates and i'll accept this deal.
Doddy
Excidium.
#99 - 2012-07-31 10:50:07 UTC
nat longshot wrote:
Lady Spank wrote:
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Deep_Space_Scanner_Probe_I

Again, deep space is not the same aa nul sec. If it was, these probes would be limited to nul/wormhole only much like interdictor probes.

Deep space is any area of space outside the bounds of a planet's gravitational influence. You have deep space pockets all over, including grav sites where one could mine.


Those grav sites are within 4au of a celestial and not in deep space.


and in miles what is 4 ua? well here it is 92,955,807.273 mi is one au so 4 au is 371,823,229 miles or 4 times what the earth is from the sun. so yes that is deepspace. so you wrong and fail yet again.


This is one of those stupid arguments where people use an earth current term and try to apply it to sci fi. Its as bad as when they introduced the (exo)planetology skill.

The meaning of deep space has changed over time as humanity has travelled further. Initially it meant anywhere beyond Earth orbit. Then it meant anywhere beyond the asteroid belt. Then it meant anywhere beyond Pluto. Now it probably mostly means beyond our solar system. Obviously by this rational everywhere in eve is deep space. Also by this rational most of accessable eve would not be "deep space" to people actually living there. Note that there is no specific scientific definition of "deep space". It means "far away" and is dependant on context. Nasa for example uses the term varyingly depending what they are talking about. Talking about manned flight "deep space" means something very different to radio-telescope work.

Generally in sci-fi (the only thing we actually have to go by since man has not gone extra-solar) "deep space" refers to space outwith solar systems or even between galaxies. Due to the chosen method of ftl travel in eve (hyperspace between in system points) it is not actually possible to go extra solar (well it is but you would need to run a mwd for several years from the outermost planet in a big solar system), so clearly that is not how the term is used here. Instead you need to look at the backstory of eve itself, and specifically ORE. ORE got rich by its "deep space mining and exploration" in the Outer Ring region (0.0 space). Other eve background refers to space outwith the empires as "deep space" as well. So in the eve context it is not really out of the ordinary.
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#100 - 2012-07-31 20:20:19 UTC

Thanks Doddy. I swear all these new generations of players have no interest in the wonderful lore that enriches New Eden and would rather spout a load of irrelevant 'science' crap from a wikipedia page.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)