These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Barge Fairy Tale

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#2341 - 2012-07-30 22:49:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Richard Desturned wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:

so yeah you haven't figured out ship fittings beyond the "swiss army knife" school of pubbie fittings


Sorry, I don't have dedicated teams to find out how to exploit the various parts of the game.

Ofc you won't spit such godly fitting to show off the mere mortals, right?


try losing the tank mods


And then I get 0.3s less lock time and 0.1% better tracking speed (which at 25km of optimal I don't need really to min max too much).
What changes in practice?

I tried the "absolutely all out" approach with a Malestrom, the benefit was so marginal I did not find it worth the loss of a tank.

Also, I said in that fitting post something like: "feel free to replace tank with more damage mods".

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2342 - 2012-07-30 22:54:35 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
And then I get 0.3s less lock time and 0.1% better tracking speed (which at 25km of optimal I don't need really to min max too much).
What changes in practice?


the vitals of your hulk after the attempt

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#2343 - 2012-07-30 22:56:47 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
And then I get 0.3s less lock time and 0.1% better tracking speed (which at 25km of optimal I don't need really to min max too much).
What changes in practice?


the vitals of your hulk after the attempt


Only Hulks I had are those I finished selling some days ago.
It's nice to return back to 2009 and play miner once a year for the giggles but my real occupation is to build and sell Hulks to the poor sods and catalysts to the SkillPro PvPers.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#2344 - 2012-07-30 23:02:30 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
....


Pipa Porto wrote:

Use Jetcans to buffer if you have a Solo Orca doing hauling for you. A Hulk will not fill a jetcan in the time it takes an Orca to dock, empty, warp back. (Even if it did, Hulks can make around 1 jetcan per Cycle, and they don't mine 1 Jetcan of Ore per cycle).


I kick ANY miner using a jetcan meant to be taken up by an Orca.
Sure gonna risk an Orca to some clown flipping the can somehow, expecially when they go unload.

I had a guy doing this exactly the day before I experimented your Mackinaw fail fit on the field. A guy *with light speed* managed to warp in, flip and warp out so fast I noticed just by pure luck.

I truly doubt you have ever mined in anything beyond the starter frigate.

If the Orca pilot cannot have the sense not to pick up a can that was flipped, they should be the ones kicked.

Also, with the new lag generating UI, its really hard to open a tractored can.


Also, you need some situational awareness if you don't notice someone warp in (exceptions being extremely crowded ice belts and station undocks). Takes about 3 whole seconds for them to do anything after they appear on the overview. And then they would have to approach the can, and flip it (another 2 seconds for the UI to react).
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#2345 - 2012-07-30 23:08:55 UTC
Ian The Bane wrote:
mmmm wah! mmmm wah!

Cry baby cry! Comer on cry for me!



Here's a better quote from this loser.

Posted: 2012.07.28 18:23
Quote:

This is my 3rd time trying to play EVE since 2010.
Other than getting a little bored the first two times at least I made money and completed missions.
Now I cannot do either...No matter what ship I use on level 1 missions, I die...doesnt even matter that I spent 3 million on upgrades....the enemy ships in any mission kill me.
Worst thing is this is a rookie mission requiring rookie ships...
I am at a loss and cancelled my sub.....no other game has made me so frustrated, worse is that the last two times I did well.



HAHAHA. These look a lot more like tears to me.

I die in LVL1 missions, I'm going to quit.

Come back when you get some hair on your little teabag.
Ludi Burek
Exit-Strategy
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#2346 - 2012-07-30 23:15:46 UTC
Herr Wilkus wrote:
Ian The Bane wrote:
mmmm wah! mmmm wah!

Cry baby cry! Comer on cry for me!



Here's a better quote from this loser.

Posted: 2012.07.28 18:23
Quote:

This is my 3rd time trying to play EVE since 2010.
Other than getting a little bored the first two times at least I made money and completed missions.
Now I cannot do either...No matter what ship I use on level 1 missions, I die...doesnt even matter that I spent 3 million on upgrades....the enemy ships in any mission kill me.
Worst thing is this is a rookie mission requiring rookie ships...
I am at a loss and cancelled my sub.....no other game has made me so frustrated, worse is that the last two times I did well.



HAHAHA. These look a lot more like tears to me.

I die in LVL1 missions, I'm going to quit.

Come back when you get some hair on your little teabag.


These are the kind of people we should balance eve around! Lol Oh wait, it seems we are already.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#2347 - 2012-07-30 23:17:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Corina Jarr wrote:
If the Orca pilot cannot have the sense not to pick up a can that was flipped, they should be the ones kicked.

Also, with the new lag generating UI, its really hard to open a tractored can.


Also, you need some situational awareness if you don't notice someone warp in (exceptions being extremely crowded ice belts and station undocks). Takes about 3 whole seconds for them to do anything after they appear on the overview. And then they would have to approach the can, and flip it (another 2 seconds for the UI to react).


I always have been in extremely crowded ice belts and after 8 brain-wrecking hours of unloading stuff it's quite easy for an Orca pilot to warp back and not know somebody flipped it in his absence and take it.

I am always surprised of people (not just you but others in this thread) who pretend somebody can do the same stuff for 8 hours and then be ready and pristine for any sudden event like they just had a big sniff of lol-they-censored-it.

I feel like I am the only puny, mere human in this thread.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2348 - 2012-07-30 23:42:26 UTC
mining is for fun* stop reading there. Answer sinds when is minner fun... O wait ... Yah he right.... now what are you going to do about that QQ the forums for it? wait till a dev will show this to ccp? or just email ccp and the will help you? i guys nice shot but you miss....
Pipa Porto
#2349 - 2012-07-31 00:15:55 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
If the Orca pilot cannot have the sense not to pick up a can that was flipped, they should be the ones kicked.

Also, with the new lag generating UI, its really hard to open a tractored can.


Also, you need some situational awareness if you don't notice someone warp in (exceptions being extremely crowded ice belts and station undocks). Takes about 3 whole seconds for them to do anything after they appear on the overview. And then they would have to approach the can, and flip it (another 2 seconds for the UI to react).


I always have been in extremely crowded ice belts and after 8 brain-wrecking hours of unloading stuff it's quite easy for an Orca pilot to warp back and not know somebody flipped it in his absence and take it.

I am always surprised of people (not just you but others in this thread) who pretend somebody can do the same stuff for 8 hours and then be ready and pristine for any sudden event like they just had a big sniff of lol-they-censored-it.

I feel like I am the only puny, mere human in this thread.


Being bright yellow instead of white and having a popup saying "do you really want to steal this" isn't enough of a hint for the Orca pilot?

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Pipa Porto
#2350 - 2012-07-31 00:19:28 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:

Hulks could easily simply Orbit the roid they're mining. Would make ganking them a lot harder.


Works well with ice mining, but for normal mining, expecially the roids you say to dig (1.0 sec) pop so fast that in the end roid orbiting gets lost.

Ofc you can go further and anchor GSCs and whatsnot and then keep adding more burden always on the defendants.


I don't say to dig anything. I suggest options that have varying levels of effort, cost, and safety.

Also, you can Orbit a roid that you're not mining, while mining other nearby roids.


You just don't get it. Even in WoW they got the concept that if you have a min maxed setup, then that min maxed setup has to work better than the non min maxed setups. This is why they put simplified skill rotations on pure DPS classes. Any kind of slow down and hybrid classes and offspecs can compete with them and make them pointless.

Same for Exhumers. If it's more cumbersome to make an Hulk do work than an alternative, then it will be pointless.
If anything, it should be the other ships to be harder to setup and keep up to speed with their operation, not the Hulk.



The Hulk does yield better than the other ships. It just takes a little bit of effort and support to do it. That's called balance.

The Mack Yields less, but it's really easy and convenient to use.
The Skiff Yields less, but it's really safe to use.

I still don't give a flying what Blizzard does with their game. There is nothing about that game that interests me.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Vigilant
Vigilant's Vigilante's
#2351 - 2012-07-31 00:37:36 UTC
This thread is pure win! Mine a fleet BS like I did during hulkagedon
ISD TYPE40
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#2352 - 2012-07-31 01:01:08 UTC
This thread has already been cleaned once, and I have asked politely for people not to troll, post off topic or use personal insults, if the thread continues to degenerate I will be forced to lock it. Please stick to the topic at hand and post responsibly, thank you.

[b]ISD Type40 Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]
Reiisha
#2353 - 2012-07-31 01:01:56 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Reiisha wrote:
Fun to see people whine who's motivation clearly is to only pvp when their targets cannot defend themselves :)

I doubt they can even see the joke in this.


I don't know why you miners always use this argument. You aren't getting ganked because people are afraid to risk their ship, they know well ahead of time that they are risking a ship, instead you're getting ganked because you whine and tantrum over it. The most hilarious part of all of this is that you wouldn't get ganked at all if you actually fit a tank. Like I said earlier though in ~6months when minerals crash because of the bot friendly environment brought about by these changes I'm going to laugh at you "smart" miners.


Any ship can be ganked anywhere.

The only difference this patch makes is that you can't easily gank miners with destroyers anymore. Your entire argument falls down on you not being willing to spend more than 1m on a gank...

Use a cruiser or a bc? You can still gank. No one is stopping you :)

If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...
Urgg Boolean
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2354 - 2012-07-31 01:07:11 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Urgg Boolean wrote:
1) spend all your ISK fielding gank fit Machariels to take out the new mining barges just because you hate miners.


lmfao they'll just use more gank catalysts

and you'll be whining when your afk hulks keep

getting

ganked

because you don't know how to fit a tank, can't be bothered to actually be at your computer when you're playing a game rather than doing your laundry and expect the developers to give you everything on a silver platter

You are right, of course. No real ganker would take out Hulks in a Machariel (or a Vindi) . I know, because my main and her corp mates have been ganked by some of the best teams we have seen.

My exaggeration was to point out that you can still gank, it's just potentially harder to make a profit. I agree with you, and I have even posted this: some miners will continue to fly max yield paper-tank hulks.

We HTFUed and the gankage stopped:
1) tanked Orca with Shield Harmonizer II (only 253K EHP with wimpy T2 mods, in fleet, resists in the high 80s-low 90s, no EFT guesstimate)
2) proper tank for Hulks of course
3) Hulks orbit Orca (which has it's problems...)
4) Spider tankage with repper drones
5) passive tanking skills maxed in case of neut
6) Orca pilot with perfect fleet/gang link skills
7) we also try to look like space hobos so the gankers think we have nothing of value.
8) watch local of known reds

Since we no longer get ganked, for us, the new ships are icing :: tthick, delicious, icing. Now the gankers will have to rethink things. So HTFU already.

I will never talk **** in local to insight a ganker, but we'd respect any real attempt to take us out. We learned so much from dealing with so many well rehearsed teams. We may learn more if somebody tries to take us out again. But they won't. We are well prepared, a difficult set of targets,and they know it. And now it's even better.
Pipa Porto
#2355 - 2012-07-31 01:07:41 UTC
Reiisha wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Reiisha wrote:
Fun to see people whine who's motivation clearly is to only pvp when their targets cannot defend themselves :)

I doubt they can even see the joke in this.


I don't know why you miners always use this argument. You aren't getting ganked because people are afraid to risk their ship, they know well ahead of time that they are risking a ship, instead you're getting ganked because you whine and tantrum over it. The most hilarious part of all of this is that you wouldn't get ganked at all if you actually fit a tank. Like I said earlier though in ~6months when minerals crash because of the bot friendly environment brought about by these changes I'm going to laugh at you "smart" miners.


Any ship can be ganked anywhere.

The only difference this patch makes is that you can't easily gank miners with destroyers anymore. Your entire argument falls down on you not being willing to spend more than 1m on a gank...

Use a cruiser or a bc? You can still gank. No one is stopping you :)


The only time you can gank with a 1m ISK ship is if the Hulk is literally unfit.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#2356 - 2012-07-31 02:06:44 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
]I always have been in extremely crowded ice belts and after 8 brain-wrecking hours of unloading stuff it's quite easy for an Orca pilot to warp back and not know somebody flipped it in his absence and take it.

I am always surprised of people (not just you but others in this thread) who pretend somebody can do the same stuff for 8 hours and then be ready and pristine for any sudden event like they just had a big sniff of lol-they-censored-it.

I feel like I am the only puny, mere human in this thread.


The Orca pilot would be tired indeed to dismiss the can theft warning message. I have on the past lost ships to CONCORD due to mistaking "do you want to repair this NPC" for the "do you want to repair this guy who has an active wardec" warning. But why would you get the can flip warning and ignore it? Out of corp miners who leave fleet before you tractor their cans?

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#2357 - 2012-07-31 05:07:03 UTC
Urgg Boolean wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Urgg Boolean wrote:
1) spend all your ISK fielding gank fit Machariels to take out the new mining barges just because you hate miners.


lmfao they'll just use more gank catalysts

and you'll be whining when your afk hulks keep

getting

ganked

because you don't know how to fit a tank, can't be bothered to actually be at your computer when you're playing a game rather than doing your laundry and expect the developers to give you everything on a silver platter

You are right, of course. No real ganker would take out Hulks in a Machariel (or a Vindi) . I know, because my main and her corp mates have been ganked by some of the best teams we have seen.

My exaggeration was to point out that you can still gank, it's just potentially harder to make a profit. I agree with you, and I have even posted this: some miners will continue to fly max yield paper-tank hulks.

We HTFUed and the gankage stopped:
1) tanked Orca with Shield Harmonizer II (only 253K EHP with wimpy T2 mods, in fleet, resists in the high 80s-low 90s, no EFT guesstimate)
2) proper tank for Hulks of course
3) Hulks orbit Orca (which has it's problems...)
4) Spider tankage with repper drones
5) passive tanking skills maxed in case of neut
6) Orca pilot with perfect fleet/gang link skills
7) we also try to look like space hobos so the gankers think we have nothing of value.
8) watch local of known reds

Since we no longer get ganked, for us, the new ships are icing :: tthick, delicious, icing. Now the gankers will have to rethink things. So HTFU already.

I will never talk **** in local to insight a ganker, but we'd respect any real attempt to take us out. We learned so much from dealing with so many well rehearsed teams. We may learn more if somebody tries to take us out again. But they won't. We are well prepared, a difficult set of targets,and they know it. And now it's even better.


And this is where you are wrong.

Apparently you have mining safely figured out. Thats awesome. You stand to benefit the most from high mineral prices, as other lesser miners are smashed to pieces.

You are probably the last person who would want to 'lower the bar', make all Exhumers hard to gank.
Because you'll find your little operation swamped by AFK miners and bots and see your income per hour drop.

Suicide ganking is highly beneficial to miners who tank intelligently and take precautions.
Less ganking = less ships ships blowing up = less demand for minerals.
Less miner ganking = more miners = more minerals on the market = lower prices.

While there are tons of factors that ultimately determine mineral prices, lots of ganking is a big net win for miners who know how to protect themselves.
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#2358 - 2012-07-31 05:08:08 UTC
Urgg Boolean wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Urgg Boolean wrote:
1) spend all your ISK fielding gank fit Machariels to take out the new mining barges just because you hate miners.


lmfao they'll just use more gank catalysts

and you'll be whining when your afk hulks keep

getting

ganked

because you don't know how to fit a tank, can't be bothered to actually be at your computer when you're playing a game rather than doing your laundry and expect the developers to give you everything on a silver platter

You are right, of course. No real ganker would take out Hulks in a Machariel (or a Vindi) . I know, because my main and her corp mates have been ganked by some of the best teams we have seen.

My exaggeration was to point out that you can still gank, it's just potentially harder to make a profit. I agree with you, and I have even posted this: some miners will continue to fly max yield paper-tank hulks.

We HTFUed and the gankage stopped:
1) tanked Orca with Shield Harmonizer II (only 253K EHP with wimpy T2 mods, in fleet, resists in the high 80s-low 90s, no EFT guesstimate)
2) proper tank for Hulks of course
3) Hulks orbit Orca (which has it's problems...)
4) Spider tankage with repper drones
5) passive tanking skills maxed in case of neut
6) Orca pilot with perfect fleet/gang link skills
7) we also try to look like space hobos so the gankers think we have nothing of value.
8) watch local of known reds

Since we no longer get ganked, for us, the new ships are icing :: tthick, delicious, icing. Now the gankers will have to rethink things. So HTFU already.

I will never talk **** in local to insight a ganker, but we'd respect any real attempt to take us out. We learned so much from dealing with so many well rehearsed teams. We may learn more if somebody tries to take us out again. But they won't. We are well prepared, a difficult set of targets,and they know it. And now it's even better.


And this is where you are wrong.

Apparently you have mining safely figured out. Thats awesome. You stand to benefit the most from high mineral prices, as other lesser miners are smashed to pieces.

You are probably the last person who would want to 'lower the bar', make all Exhumers hard to gank.
Because you'll find your little operation swamped by AFK miners and bots and see your income per hour drop.

Suicide ganking is highly beneficial to miners who tank intelligently and take precautions.
Less ganking = less ships ships blowing up = less demand for minerals.
Less miner ganking = more miners = more minerals on the market = lower prices.

While there are tons of factors that ultimately determine mineral prices, lots of ganking is a big net win for miners who know how to protect themselves.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#2359 - 2012-07-31 05:12:26 UTC
Herr Wilkus wrote:
While there are tons of factors that ultimately determine mineral prices, lots of ganking is a big net win for miners who know how to protect themselves.

Fortunately, these miners have for the most part taken the pro-ganking stance in this thread, and others. It's the derpers who are complaining. In a few months, they'll be complaining about mineral prices being too low, and will beg for an increase in yield, just like they did around 2007-2008, when botting really picked up in scale. AKA the "holy **** I have no idea how anything works, just make me be able to mine more and I'm sure everything will be fine" whining.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#2360 - 2012-07-31 05:35:06 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
If the Orca pilot cannot have the sense not to pick up a can that was flipped, they should be the ones kicked.

Also, with the new lag generating UI, its really hard to open a tractored can.


Also, you need some situational awareness if you don't notice someone warp in (exceptions being extremely crowded ice belts and station undocks). Takes about 3 whole seconds for them to do anything after they appear on the overview. And then they would have to approach the can, and flip it (another 2 seconds for the UI to react).


I always have been in extremely crowded ice belts and after 8 brain-wrecking hours of unloading stuff it's quite easy for an Orca pilot to warp back and not know somebody flipped it in his absence and take it.

I am always surprised of people (not just you but others in this thread) who pretend somebody can do the same stuff for 8 hours and then be ready and pristine for any sudden event like they just had a big sniff of lol-they-censored-it.

I feel like I am the only puny, mere human in this thread.


Being bright yellow instead of white and having a popup saying "do you really want to steal this" isn't enough of a hint for the Orca pilot?


Sure, but after many hours, and expecially if for any reason the warning got disabled, it becomes more and more possible.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials