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the new mining barges stats let the gankers cry
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Lilly Tiger
Megalith Heavy Industries
#141 - 2012-07-30 17:54:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Lilly Tiger
Shalua Rui wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Why can't we have just one game in the world where we can murder other players without having to wait for them to toggle a flag, or wait for a new TDM round to start?


Because a game like this is already concidered a niche product by todays standards... and there are almost no companies left standing that can cater to a niche audience and prosper... as in, make their publishers/investors happy.


I was gonna answer, but this answers it beautifully. You/we can't have our one game as eve used to be because of this. Ccp wants to do what ou say (hello dust, hello WOD online), but if it is faster to wowify eve... Well hello wow in space. Fact is,those carebears and whiners that the hardcore elite are always harassing, they are they majority. And they are fickle, which unfortunately means they are faster at voting with their wallet than the lojal old school pvpers are. Reality sucks, but that doesn't make it less real..
Soundwave Plays Diablo
Doomheim
#142 - 2012-07-30 18:17:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Soundwave Plays Diablo
Lilly Tiger wrote:
Shalua Rui wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Why can't we have just one game in the world where we can murder other players without having to wait for them to toggle a flag, or wait for a new TDM round to start?


Because a game like this is already concidered a niche product by todays standards... and there are almost no companies left standing that can cater to a niche audience and prosper... as in, make their publishers/investors happy.


I was gonna answer, but this answers it beautifully. You/we can't have our one game as eve used to be because of this. Ccp wants to do what ou say (hello dust, hello WOD online), but if it is faster to wowify eve... Well hello wow in space. Fact is,those carebears and whiners that the hardcore elite are always harassing, they are they majority. And they are fickle, which unfortunately means they are faster at voting with their wallet than the lojal old school pvpers are. Reality sucks, but that doesn't make it more real.


Quote:
niche   [nich] Show IPA noun, adjective, verb, niched, nich·ing.
noun
1. an ornamental recess in a wall or the like, usually semicircular in plan and arched, as for a statue or other decorative object.
2. a place or position suitable or appropriate for a person or thing: to find one's niche in the business world.
3. a distinct segment of a market.
4. Ecology . the position or function of an organism in a community of plants and animals.


Clearly, PvP always on is not a niche market just because WoW does not have have it.

What Eve has that others do not is that it is;

1. A space MMO
2. With PvP always on
3. With "real" loss from PvP

Its not that there's a "niche market" for that, its that the space MMO genre is undersaturated, and the fantasy market is oversaturated.

ANY publisher would have a hard time selling any game in any genre that is inherently self destructive.
Lilly Tiger
Megalith Heavy Industries
#143 - 2012-07-30 19:30:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Lilly Tiger
Soundwave Plays Diablo wrote:




Clearly, PvP always on is not a niche market just because WoW does not have have it.

What Eve has that others do not is that it is;

1. A space MMO
2. With PvP always on
3. With "real" loss from PvP

Its not that there's a "niche market" for that, its that the space MMO genre is undersaturated, and the fantasy market is oversaturated.

ANY publisher would have a hard time selling any game in any genre that is inherently self destructive.


PvP always on in a MMO with real losses. THATS what makes eve niche. I never said PvP always on in itself is what makes it niche. Its PvP always on combined with MMO combined with real losses. Take away any one of those and there are many other games out there (space, or not).

Some people are drawn to eve because its possible to hurt people (non consentual people as well) in pvp with losses here. Others are drawn by the cool stories, the player driven content and industry, the good graphics, the space story, etc.

I don't think most of the players nowadays are drawn in by "yeah we can hurt people who cant defend themselves, and they lose hours of in game effort from it! Hell yeah!" attitude. So the ones wanting that might have to find another niche game (space or not, i dont give a rats behind) when the OTHER kinds of players start voting with their wallets or voices. CCP would rather get their vision (free pvp bla bla bla) AND money of course, but if they have to pick one they will always go for money in the end.

If any of you disagree, I would happy to hear how you are paying for your food, mortage, rent, car, power etc with your visions and dreams only (I really would, maybe i can pay in vision currency as wellBear).

EDIT: Oh and btw, what drove ME to EVE in the first place was the industrial aspect of the game. THe players make everything, and its totally disconnected from the combat part skill-wise, i.e. you dont have to have missiles lvl X or clear out 3 deadspace complexes to be better at mining or building. (I Quit WOW fast when i figured out I had to do multiple dungeons and be level X to progress at freaking BLACKSMITHING... that made about as much sense as having to kill pigs to become a better singer..)
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#144 - 2012-07-30 19:48:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Shalua Rui
Lilly Tiger wrote:
EDIT: Oh and btw, what drove ME to EVE in the first place was the industrial aspect of the game. THe players make everything, and its totally disconnected from the combat part skill-wise, i.e. you dont have to have missiles lvl X or clear out 3 deadspace complexes to be better at mining or building. (I Quit WOW fast when i figured out I had to do multiple dungeons and be level X to progress at freaking BLACKSMITHING... that made about as much sense as having to kill pigs to become a better singer..)


Same here... except the WoW part, because that game bored me years ago... but PvP, or combat as a whole for that matter, never really intrested me about EVE... even though I like to tune ships, but thats just my technophilia talking.^^

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Andoria Thara
Fallen Avatars
#145 - 2012-07-30 19:58:04 UTC
I can see people who have an Orca/Hulk combo sticking with the Hulk, but the solo miners out there will switch to the Mack eventually.

Doing the math, you can easily find that sitting in a belt filling up the 35k m3 ore bay in a Mack with 3x MLU IIs will net a higher yield than a "One Cycle Fills-Ma-Ore-Bay" Hulk that has to dock and dump ore EVERY 3 minutes.
Lilly Tiger
Megalith Heavy Industries
#146 - 2012-07-30 21:27:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Lilly Tiger
Shalua Rui wrote:
Lilly Tiger wrote:
EDIT: Oh and btw, what drove ME to EVE in the first place was the industrial aspect of the game. THe players make everything, and its totally disconnected from the combat part skill-wise, i.e. you dont have to have missiles lvl X or clear out 3 deadspace complexes to be better at mining or building. (I Quit WOW fast when i figured out I had to do multiple dungeons and be level X to progress at freaking BLACKSMITHING... that made about as much sense as having to kill pigs to become a better singer..)


Same here... except the WoW part, because that game bored me years ago... but PvP, or combat as a whole for that matter, never really intrested me about EVE... even though I like to tune ships, but thats just my technophilia talking.^^


Wow bored me years ago as well,I started eve in 2005:) been here off and on since
Lilly Tiger
Megalith Heavy Industries
#147 - 2012-07-30 21:29:09 UTC
Andoria Thara wrote:
I can see people who have an Orca/Hulk combo sticking with the Hulk, but the solo miners out there will switch to the Mack eventually.

Doing the math, you can easily find that sitting in a belt filling up the 35k m3 ore bay in a Mack with 3x MLU IIs will net a higher yield than a "One Cycle Fills-Ma-Ore-Bay" Hulk that has to dock and dump ore EVERY 3 minutes.

Always mine with an orca, it is just more awesome Bear
Andoria Thara
Fallen Avatars
#148 - 2012-07-30 22:30:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Andoria Thara
Lilly Tiger wrote:
Andoria Thara wrote:
I can see people who have an Orca/Hulk combo sticking with the Hulk, but the solo miners out there will switch to the Mack eventually.

Doing the math, you can easily find that sitting in a belt filling up the 35k m3 ore bay in a Mack with 3x MLU IIs will net a higher yield than a "One Cycle Fills-Ma-Ore-Bay" Hulk that has to dock and dump ore EVERY 3 minutes.

Always mine with an orca, it is just more awesome Bear


No doubt, but one of the main reasons why so many solo miners use the Hulk is because it has the biggest cargo hold out of all barges/exhumers, the other reason being highest yield.

For a person who mines and dumps ore after their cargo gets full, the Mackinaw will be a godsend. Cargo rigs and cargo expanders, which reduce Armor and Hull HP will no longer be needed since they don't affect the ore bay.

Give it about a month and I bet you 1 isk that you will see Mackinaws everywhere.
Lilly Tiger
Megalith Heavy Industries
#149 - 2012-07-31 09:56:12 UTC
Andoria Thara wrote:
Lilly Tiger wrote:
Andoria Thara wrote:
I can see people who have an Orca/Hulk combo sticking with the Hulk, but the solo miners out there will switch to the Mack eventually.

Doing the math, you can easily find that sitting in a belt filling up the 35k m3 ore bay in a Mack with 3x MLU IIs will net a higher yield than a "One Cycle Fills-Ma-Ore-Bay" Hulk that has to dock and dump ore EVERY 3 minutes.

Always mine with an orca, it is just more awesome Bear


No doubt, but one of the main reasons why so many solo miners use the Hulk is because it has the biggest cargo hold out of all barges/exhumers, the other reason being highest yield.

For a person who mines and dumps ore after their cargo gets full, the Mackinaw will be a godsend. Cargo rigs and cargo expanders, which reduce Armor and Hull HP will no longer be needed since they don't affect the ore bay.

Give it about a month and I bet you 1 isk that you will see Mackinaws everywhere.



I think i will "switch" to macks myself for my small team of miners when mining ice (a.k.a. keep using macks). its just so much more comfortable mining with a large hold, even when you have orca support. Means you can almost afk mine and at the same time have a good buffer tank.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#150 - 2012-07-31 13:32:08 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Tor Gungnir wrote:
First time? Don't make me laugh.
Well, since you haven't been around for long enough to see any crying-miner threads, I can only assume that you've been here for all of 5 minutes and haven't even scanned the front page.

it is too weak for Tippia.... What?

anyone active on forums enough see already that posts from miners are a lot more rare than posts from gankers. I would say 1 miners post comes with 10-20 gankers posts. And 1 thread from miner comes with 2-3 threads from gankers and wannabees.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Dave stark
#151 - 2012-07-31 13:51:23 UTC
Lilly Tiger wrote:
Andoria Thara wrote:
Lilly Tiger wrote:
Andoria Thara wrote:
I can see people who have an Orca/Hulk combo sticking with the Hulk, but the solo miners out there will switch to the Mack eventually.

Doing the math, you can easily find that sitting in a belt filling up the 35k m3 ore bay in a Mack with 3x MLU IIs will net a higher yield than a "One Cycle Fills-Ma-Ore-Bay" Hulk that has to dock and dump ore EVERY 3 minutes.

Always mine with an orca, it is just more awesome Bear


No doubt, but one of the main reasons why so many solo miners use the Hulk is because it has the biggest cargo hold out of all barges/exhumers, the other reason being highest yield.

For a person who mines and dumps ore after their cargo gets full, the Mackinaw will be a godsend. Cargo rigs and cargo expanders, which reduce Armor and Hull HP will no longer be needed since they don't affect the ore bay.

Give it about a month and I bet you 1 isk that you will see Mackinaws everywhere.



I think i will "switch" to macks myself for my small team of miners when mining ice (a.k.a. keep using macks). its just so much more comfortable mining with a large hold, even when you have orca support. Means you can almost afk mine and at the same time have a good buffer tank.


personally i only have 2 accounts. one was going for an orca because i'd gladly lose the extra hulk yield for the mobile 200k ehp boost giving jetcan. however, 2 macks is easily going to win as it's a similar yield and less attention that i have to pay.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#152 - 2012-07-31 14:07:14 UTC
I wonder how many miners will still fit cargo mods...
Dave stark
#153 - 2012-07-31 14:12:27 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:
I wonder how many miners will still fit cargo mods...


none. bots on the other hand...
Apostate Lucius
Doomheim
#154 - 2012-07-31 14:20:06 UTC
Aruken Marr wrote:
Are you assuming miners will be tanking their Hulks? I have something to tell you about the majority of EVE players...


The responsibility lies with a miner's corp CEO to mandate tanks on their barges, and to pass word among both friends and allies in order to protect themselves.

Let Caesar never forget, though he may rule with the authority of the gods, he is allowed to rule by the whim of the people.
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#155 - 2012-07-31 14:26:56 UTC
Apostate Lucius wrote:
The responsibility lies with a miner's corp CEO to mandate tanks on their barges, and to pass word among both friends and allies in order to protect themselves.

Good thing those NPC directors and single-player corps are on top of things.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Andoria Thara
Fallen Avatars
#156 - 2012-07-31 14:47:06 UTC
Karl Hobb wrote:
Apostate Lucius wrote:
The responsibility lies with a miner's corp CEO to mandate tanks on their barges, and to pass word among both friends and allies in order to protect themselves.

Good thing those NPC directors and single-player corps are on top of things.


Agreed. I'm pretty sure a large majority of miners have no idea these changes are even coming, last I heard maybe 1% of the population regularly visit the forums. In game, whenever someone mentions the upcoming barge/exhumer changes, we get at least 10 people asking "what changes?", and that's in Mining chat.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#157 - 2012-07-31 17:13:06 UTC
Annie Freemont wrote:
Tor Gungnir wrote:
I never ever see "miners" complain here.

All I see are people like you, complaining "about" miners.

Funny how that works.

QFT!!

Seriously? You two haven't seen a year's worth of threads about how 300mil ships shouldn't be gankable by destroyers? You haven't seen all the ridiculous pleas for battleship tanks on hulks or capital strip miners for the orca?

The gankers are making a spectacle of themselves, for certain, but if you haven't seen the miner tears that came before this then you haven't been around very long.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.