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New dev blog: Upcoming Tutorial Revisions

First post First post First post
Author
Kristen Andelare
Night's Shadows
#101 - 2012-07-30 19:51:51 UTC
I strongly disagree. There is another mmo, fallen earth, that puts you in a badass *ship* sends you into a tough mission fully fitted, teaches you one by one how to use everything and how to play. Then kills you, and plops you down into *the rookie ship*

This would not only be fun, to have your 1st impression be this awesome badass rifter for instance, but allows for more teaching to take place and for the death toll to be explained straight up, and not something that makes a player quit down the road. It would get peoples hearts pumping, it would would show them what makes eve fun, it would leave a great taste in their mouth if done right.

For instance you should have the ship explode, and have another ship at the next point to climb into. Here's what I would do. Start the player in a pod. Teach them to board ships in space. Make this ship awesome, have an endless wave mode. Gets the blood pumping. Then make is so you lose your ship.

Now your back in your pod, but super reinforce that your pod is you, not the ship. Use the NPE to gets players in the mind set that the ship is expendable. Then have the player warp away to a spot with another free ship. They board it. SEE that's not you killing the player, that's you teaching the player who eve works. Then explain that they don't want to die while in pod. That they are a pilot and these ships are expendable.

Please CCP, :/ why you no support this.

I mean you could even have... ok I've got it!




1st mission Go to the site and retrieve the military's lost vessel
1.start in rookie ship.
2.learn basics
3.NPCs warp in, you lose your ship in a pitched battle.
4. After battle the game explains how NPCs don't shot at pods
5.Fly to rifter/whatever ship you were sent to retrieve
6.Blow up guys with your badass shiny new ship
7.fly back to station with ship
8.Ship is taken back, rookie ship and lots of free gear and skill books are given so the player and work his way back up to that awesome ship he was just flying.

It doens't have to be the 1st mission, it could be the second. to show how the rookie ships won't be enough. Most players get really confused why they can't keep the rookie ship.[/quote]

+1000 on this idea
Having a sort of scripted fight early on (that does NOT count on you combat losses list, that's important) that gives players a goal to strive for (a faster, shinier, more powerful combat ship) and also teaches them that the pod is them, the ship is a tool to use in the game, like a gun in an FPS would REALLY help first-timers understand this core Eve concept. And if you give them that adrenaline rush early on, you've hooked them for life.
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#102 - 2012-07-30 19:55:19 UTC
MotherMoon wrote:


see? stupid. If anything maybe the NPE should inject and force the skill to level 1 on it's own.

With the new train to in the right click menu its realy ease to place in training

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

Logix42
Taxation Damnation
#103 - 2012-07-30 20:10:39 UTC
Section 23: Additional Reading should not include medical clones. Corporations and skills are fine to talk about while your ship is auto-piloting to a station but the medical clones bit should be saved until the player is IN a station. It is more relevant there, where they can actually upgrade their clone while they read that bit of the tutorial. Having them read it while flying in space is a recipe for forgetting and then them cursing you when they die and lose skill points.

Go beyond the edge of space... Explore

Elsa Nietchize
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#104 - 2012-07-30 20:24:36 UTC
I don't think a single person in my corp has done the tutorials. Well, aside from myself. But I did them after I'd been playing the game for two years. I too have run into the issue where the agent says "I've given you this skill book/module" and I look in the hanger and don't have it. I can see why my guys don't bother with it.

The first thing I tell them is to run the tutorials, the second thing I tell them are the rewards. Lot's of stuff in the tutorial seems trivial, long winded and without real relevance. I personally feel the career agents are far more useful. Even so, 10 missions is still long winded. That needs to be reduced. But if newbies know the rewards ahead of time it gives them a reason to grind through it.

For the record, I still don't have a firm understanding of how Optimal/falloff works.
TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
#105 - 2012-07-30 20:27:05 UTC  |  Edited by: TheSmokingHertog
Quote:
Bloodpetal wrote:
New Player Experience : Rookie System Incursion Style Social Interaction

I was looking through your new tutorial on SISI for some curiosity to see what you've done.

I think you've done a great job laying the explanations out in a way that is easy for everyone to understand!


So, as I was doing this, I quickly realized that it was lacking that one thing that I know CCP really wants to bring into the situation... social interaction and player dependency.

And then it occured to me... you should have a "mini-incursion" (not necessarily Sansha) style event going on in Rookie systems. It can be optional or part of one of the missions you make. Make it a 3-5 Rookie Ship experience.


Yup, lack of social gameplay is one of the "big picture" issues with the current tutorial, and newbie incursions are something that's been suggested internally too Smile


Just an idea, make them trigger the Incursion Trailer when starting this venture, then they have more storyline information from the start. In some games (like Guild Wars I) the story line made me revisit parts of the game.

"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X

"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron

-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-

D0main
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#106 - 2012-07-30 20:32:38 UTC
Hello!

It will be great if you will add functionality to create own tutorials (for example: tutorial of pvp aspects for ally mates, etc). With this feature many ingame experts will be able to create many obviousness advanced tutorials for newbies in all specializations and will be able to collect modern eve experience in a ally/corp/public knowledge bases without external instruments like a forums, blogs and others.

With best reguards!
CCP Phantom
C C P
C C P Alliance
#107 - 2012-07-30 20:32:45 UTC
Two step wrote:
Why does the blog have the 25th as the date it was released? :P
As CCP Explorer explained, the blog was created on that date. In the future we will adjust this date to properly reflect the date of publication. Thank pointing out that detail!

Also it is impressive to see all this good feedback. As I say, the EVE Community is really great and has an immense insight into EVE Online that it would be a shame not using this knowledge and passion to improve EVE together.

CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer

Obsidiana
Atrament Inc.
#108 - 2012-07-30 20:36:12 UTC
I almost didn't read the blog post. I'm glad I did. The title said nothing about UI improvements. Tutorials don't affect me; UI improvements do. You might want to tweak that title a smidge.

Question: Why is falloff listed before optimal range on the weapon tool tip?

Request: On the agent menu "Add Waypoint" would be nice to have if the mission is in another system.

That said, I'm going to have to install the test client to take a sneak peak at these new changes. They look great and are the kind of little things that make a big difference. Nice work. 8)
Logix42
Taxation Damnation
#109 - 2012-07-30 20:42:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Logix42
First career choosen was military so working through it.
Step 3 of 10 rewarded a ship, now a new player would be like "cool I'm getting a shiny new ship" click on the Complete Mission button and *POOF*, mission is complete, can continue on to the next one, but what about that elusive ship? Where did it go? This is the first time the player has been given a ship in a station and does not know where to find it, or if they find it, how to switch to that ship.

At this point the tutorial needs to show the new player the Ship Hangar. It is the first time they are given a new ship other than the rookie one, which they are given in space (See Tutorial 06: Ship Movement)

Edit: This is Minmatar tutorial unconfirmed if other races acting same way

Go beyond the edge of space... Explore

Cloned S0ul
POCKOCMOC Inc.
#110 - 2012-07-30 20:50:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Cloned S0ul
Good job CCP, i like things like this star gate (precise indicator) i remember a lot situaton during my 6+ year EvE adventure when i read newbis (where is this stargate or solar sytem) etc, less complicated tutorial for newbis is beter for EvE future, espetialy meny players give up to this game ,because EvE it self is hardcore game. so meny stop playing after bad expirence with compicated aspect at start point.

Ps. In my opinion all what you need to perfect product is more polished UI, well i dont like new UI but i cant adep to it, but in some cases here is still to much clicks...
Logix42
Taxation Damnation
#111 - 2012-07-30 20:51:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Logix42
In step 3 of 10 for the military mission there is some commentary from the NPC in the Local chat channel, this is cool because it adds depth to the story.
But what if I'm a new player and have the Rookie chat open, or another chat tab? The local tab flashes this is true, but it's a tiny tab and as a new player I would interested in making these flashing red guys explode. (Yay explosions) This is the first time I would have encountered a NPC speaking to me in the Local tab. It would be good to have a quick note from Aura telling that. Preferably as soon as I warp into the site and he starts talking to me.

Edit: This is Minmatar tutorial, unconfirmed other races acting this way

Go beyond the edge of space... Explore

CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
#112 - 2012-07-30 20:56:19 UTC
Obsidiana wrote:
Question: Why is falloff listed before optimal range on the weapon tool tip?
See responses here https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1720061#post1720061 and here https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1720165#post1720165 Note that this isn't "falloff" but "falloff range", which is optimal + 1x falloff.

Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Senior Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @CCP_Explorer

Logix42
Taxation Damnation
#113 - 2012-07-30 21:08:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Logix42
I know I'm posting a lot but hey you wrote a tutorial, I'm testing and giving feedback

So, Step 4 of 10 Military tutorial (Minmatar) I am given a 1MN Afterburner and the Afterburner tutorial pops up. Step 2 of 5 says "To use this module, open the fitting service and drag it to your ship." I try that and it tells me I don't have the required skills. The tutorial has not given me a skill book. And I have not been introduced to the market because I chose the military career path first. (And I was told in step 24: Career Agents "You can take these courses in any order, so start with whatever interests you most.")

As a new player I would be greatly saddened and confused. I can not use this awesome looking rocket booster thingy and I have no idea where to get the skill book to train for it.

The tutorial should provide the skill book or help me find it.

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Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#114 - 2012-07-30 21:15:34 UTC
Really, the character should just be given a lot of those skills at 1, and then given one skill to train as a "how to train skills" tutorial. The amount of time new players spend dicking around waiting for skills to train is annoying, especially since the training times are just long enough to break up the flow of things.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#115 - 2012-07-30 21:19:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Salpun
Bug #141734

When the tutorial icon is off the neocom the resume highlight cannot be closed top of the tab is off the rendered screen.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

Logix42
Taxation Damnation
#116 - 2012-07-30 21:27:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Logix42
Starting step 5 of 10 Military tutorial (Minmatar) triggers the Acceleration gates tutorial. This is completely unneeded though. In Tutorial 06 of the Basic tutorials you taught me how to use an Acceleration gate. The only information that is new here is "These devices are made to fling you into otherwise inaccessible pockets of space within the solar system."
The inaccessible thing is new info to the player.
O and something about having to be within 2500m? That's old. If you click on activate now-a-days and you're farther away than 2500m you will approach until you're close enough and then the gate will activate.

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Logix42
Taxation Damnation
#117 - 2012-07-30 21:51:55 UTC
(Minmatar) Implants tutorial - Removing Implants, says "Be sure that your clone is up-to-date and that you want to use your implant at this exact time before plugging it in."

New player may have thoughts such as:
"Wait a minute, up-to-date clone, what is this new terminology? does my clone have an expiry date? is it like cheese, getting better with age? or does it go bad like last weeks tuna casserole? how does this affect my implants? if I plug in an implant and then upgrade my medical clone do I lose implants?"

Questions that would require an answer... so... ya

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Logix42
Taxation Damnation
#118 - 2012-07-30 21:59:08 UTC
Ok before I go any further, it really looks like the advance tutorials, the ones for the career agents have not been updated, before I go scrutinizing them could I get a dev response as to whether they've actually been updated? No point in me dissecting them if there are changes soon to come

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Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#119 - 2012-07-30 22:07:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Tarryn Nightstorm
I've tried the new tutorial-arc on SISi, and overall, I must say, most impressive!

But no more Aura-voice?

Dis maek meh haz a sad :(

But seriously guys, please do try to bring that back when feasible to do so -- Speaking only for myself, of course, but a HUGE part of my initial immersion (read: Falling in love so bloody hard with Mme. EVE) was from that voice-over.

(Her old-style voice and convo, I mean -- the last one, with all due respect to the voice actress, was a bit too stilted, a bit too conscious of the "fourth wall," although I submit that there may be places in the tutorial-arcs where breaking that wall outright is warranted.)

Hoorah for dev-blog!

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.

Logix42
Taxation Damnation
#120 - 2012-07-30 22:45:51 UTC
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:
I've tried the new tutorial-arc on SISi, and overall, I must say, most impressive!

But no more Aura-voice?

Dis maek meh haz a sad :(

But seriously guys, please do try to bring that back when feasible to do so -- Speaking only for myself, of course, but a HUGE part of my initial immersion (read: Falling in love so bloody hard with Mme. EVE) was from that voice-over.


I also loved the voice over when I began, glad to read in the dev blog that you're actively looking into it. Sooner the better Big smile

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