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Barge Fairy Tale

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JamesCLK
#2281 - 2012-07-30 19:44:35 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
an instacane does not use tracking computers


I have no idea what I'm doing (you're right)!

[Hurricane, Instacane]

Counterbalanced Weapon Mounts I
Counterbalanced Weapon Mounts I
Counterbalanced Weapon Mounts I
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines, Scan Resolution Script
F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines, Scan Resolution Script
F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines, Scan Resolution Script
F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines, Scan Resolution Script

[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M

Medium Projectile Collision Accelerator I
Medium Targeting System Subcontroller I
Medium Targeting System Subcontroller I

Locks a Catalyst in 1 second.
A direct hit alphas an untanked Catalyst.

Can I have a gold star now?

-- -.-- / -.-. .-.. --- -. . / .. ... / - --- --- / . -..- .--. . -. ... .. ...- . / - --- / ..- -. -.. --- -.-. -.- / ... - --- .--. / .--. .-.. . .- ... . / ... . -. -.. / .... . .-.. .--. / ... - --- .--.
Pipa Porto
#2282 - 2012-07-30 19:50:58 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:

The "Buy a Skiff" tank.

So if the don't buff the hulks tank we should have no issues with the changes?


I like the idea behind the changes. Each Exhumer should have a role.

Right now, the Hulk with the new, lower tank is about fine. You gotta be ATK to keep it safe.

My problem is with the Mack and Skiff. Each takes too much of the other's role. The Skiff's not viable so long as the Mack is expensive to gank (something like 50-60k EHP available). And if that were fixed, the Mack would'nt be viable so long as the Skiff has a 17k m3 cargo.

Reduce the Mack's tank and Skiff's cargo, and you'll get an honest-to-god choice between the 3.

Hulk for when you're ATK with fleet support.
Mack for when you're ATK with no fleet support.
Skiff for when you cba to be ATK all the time to stay safe.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2283 - 2012-07-30 19:54:20 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:

The "Buy a Skiff" tank.

So if the don't buff the hulks tank we should have no issues with the changes?


I like the idea behind the changes. Each Exhumer should have a role.

Right now, the Hulk with the new, lower tank is about fine. You gotta be ATK to keep it safe.

My problem is with the Mack and Skiff. Each takes too much of the other's role. The Skiff's not viable so long as the Mack is expensive to gank (something like 50-60k EHP available). And if that were fixed, the Mack would'nt be viable so long as the Skiff has a 17k m3 cargo.

Reduce the Mack's tank and Skiff's cargo, and you'll get an honest-to-god choice between the 3.

Hulk for when you're ATK with fleet support.
Mack for when you're ATK with no fleet support.
Skiff for when you cba to be ATK all the time to stay safe.

Fair and reasonable. No complaints about that analysis.
Pipa Porto
#2284 - 2012-07-30 19:54:36 UTC
JamesCLK wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
an instacane does not use tracking computers


I have no idea what I'm doing (you're right)!


Can I have a gold star now?


I prefer 425mm or 650s ACs on a Nado. Sure it takes 2 shots to kill a Catalyst, but you get a shot every 2 seconds and change (call it 3s). You'll end up killing more Catalysts over the course of the 20s gank. (3 instead of 2)

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#2285 - 2012-07-30 20:01:29 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:

But the real reason it's a special snowflake situation is that there is no reason why you need to be mining in .5 space. Scord is found in 1.0 space too.


Ice is not. Also go mine in 1.0 yourself and you'll find out you why nobody serious does it.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#2286 - 2012-07-30 20:04:14 UTC
JamesCLK wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
an instacane does not use tracking computers


I have no idea what I'm doing (you're right)!

[Hurricane, Instacane]

Counterbalanced Weapon Mounts I
Counterbalanced Weapon Mounts I
Counterbalanced Weapon Mounts I
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines, Scan Resolution Script
F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines, Scan Resolution Script
F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines, Scan Resolution Script
F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines, Scan Resolution Script

[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M

Medium Projectile Collision Accelerator I
Medium Targeting System Subcontroller I
Medium Targeting System Subcontroller I

Locks a Catalyst in 1 second.
A direct hit alphas an untanked Catalyst.

Can I have a gold star now?


I can instantly murder bombers/dictors and assault frigs with something a little different than yours but still 1450 scan res Lol

brb
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#2287 - 2012-07-30 20:11:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Pipa Porto wrote:
JamesCLK wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
an instacane does not use tracking computers


I have no idea what I'm doing (you're right)!


Can I have a gold star now?


I prefer 425mm or 650s ACs on a Nado. Sure it takes 2 shots to kill a Catalyst, but you get a shot every 2 seconds and change (call it 3s). You'll end up killing more Catalysts over the course of the 20s gank. (3 instead of 2)


That's why I was saying I have not seen anti-gank arty setups in the posts above.


Anyway this is another arty setup, volley = 3886 in ideal conditions, DPS = 425 at 23km even without good transversal (it's not like gankers will align nicely for you to kill them easy).
Unlike the above, this setup won't entice gankers to just come suicide the 'cane. Blink
Ofc feel free to replace survival mods with more scan res.


[Hurricane, Instacane]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Damage Control II

Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II

720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
Salvager II
Small Tractor Beam II

Medium Targeting System Subcontroller I
Medium Targeting System Subcontroller I
Medium Projectile Metastasis Adjuster I


Hobgoblin II x5 (of course it's not for the gankers, just to kill rats)



Of course the above is just a testament at how a combat ship is super-flexible, can still have 37K EHP *without* all V skills, super fast lock and big burst. No need for exotic implants or whatever odd crap as well.

All flexibility and power that mining ships don't have.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Pipa Porto
#2288 - 2012-07-30 20:19:19 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:

But the real reason it's a special snowflake situation is that there is no reason why you need to be mining in .5 space. Scord is found in 1.0 space too.


Ice is not. Also go mine in 1.0 yourself and you'll find out you why nobody serious does it.


Then be ATK.

Again, that Tank is the counter to a gank specifically designed to murder a tanked Hulk.

Put a Midslot/Rigslot/1 Low tank on a Hulk and people will go after softer targets instead of you. Midslot/Rigslot only tank will also probably keep you alive.

It's just not the "never profitable" protection of the total brick tank.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#2289 - 2012-07-30 20:24:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Pipa Porto wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:

But the real reason it's a special snowflake situation is that there is no reason why you need to be mining in .5 space. Scord is found in 1.0 space too.


Ice is not. Also go mine in 1.0 yourself and you'll find out you why nobody serious does it.


Then be ATK.

Again, that Tank is the counter to a gank specifically designed to murder a tanked Hulk.

Put a Midslot/Rigslot/1 Low tank on a Hulk and people will go after softer targets instead of you. Midslot/Rigslot only tank will also probably keep you alive.

It's just not the "never profitable" protection of the total brick tank.


Even being ATK and with YOUR fitting I got a guy still managing to shoot *1* 'nado salvo on my experiment mack and quite hurt it before it warped out (and it was aligned and full speed or else...).

Not even when playing in low sec you have to be ATK like an hawk like that, nor you are out for 8 hours in an universally warpable location when you go in low sec.


BTW how comes I can get a gank cane setup that sacrifices NOTHING (top tracking, best possible T2 turrets, 1.6s lock time, all T2 mods, 37k EHP without all V skills, high burst, 3 gyrostabs...) but if I want to fly a Mack I either forfeit 35% of yeld or have a pure sh!t zero tank and ofc all V skills?

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Mag's
Azn Empire
#2290 - 2012-07-30 20:30:45 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Stuff about -10 and SiSi.
ShockedLol That was hilarious, thanks for the laugh.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Dave stark
#2291 - 2012-07-30 20:32:10 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
BTW how comes I can get a gank cane setup that sacrifices NOTHING (top tracking, best possible T2 turrets, 1.6s lock time, all T2 mods, 37k EHP without all V skills, high burst, 3 gyrostabs...) but if I want to fly a Mack I either forfeit 35% of yeld or have a pure sh!t zero tank and ofc all V skills?


nothing wrong with that; it's perfectly balanced.
Pipa Porto
#2292 - 2012-07-30 20:35:13 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:

But the real reason it's a special snowflake situation is that there is no reason why you need to be mining in .5 space. Scord is found in 1.0 space too.


Ice is not. Also go mine in 1.0 yourself and you'll find out you why nobody serious does it.


Then be ATK.

Again, that Tank is the counter to a gank specifically designed to murder a tanked Hulk.

Put a Midslot/Rigslot/1 Low tank on a Hulk and people will go after softer targets instead of you. Midslot/Rigslot only tank will also probably keep you alive.

It's just not the "never profitable" protection of the total brick tank.


Even being ATK and with YOUR fitting I got a guy still managing to shoot *1* 'nado salvo on my experiment mack and quite hurt it before it warped out (and it was aligned and full speed or else...).

Not even when playing in low sec you have to be ATK like an hawk like that, nor you are out for 8 hours in an universally warpable location when you go in low sec.


BTW how comes I can get a gank cane setup that sacrifices NOTHING (top tracking, best possible T2 turrets, 1.6s lock time, all T2 mods, 37k EHP without all V skills, high burst, 3 gyrostabs...) but if I want to fly a Mack I either forfeit 35% of yeld or have a pure sh!t zero tank and ofc all V skills?


Mining Ice in a Hulk is perfectly viable, if a little slow. And when I say ATK, I mean actually doing something, which means that your protection is not being there for him to salvo you. You warp out as he starts landing on grid, not after he starts locking you.

Anyway, have I ever said the Mack couldn't do with some love? I've only said that the New SISI mack has gotten too much love and because of that, it eclipses the New SISI Skiff.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#2293 - 2012-07-30 20:35:31 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
BTW how comes I can get a gank cane setup that sacrifices NOTHING (top tracking, best possible T2 turrets, 1.6s lock time, all T2 mods, 37k EHP without all V skills, high burst, 3 gyrostabs...) but if I want to fly a Mack I either forfeit 35% of yeld or have a pure sh!t zero tank and ofc all V skills?


nothing wrong with that; it's perfectly balanced.



Without that all those elite pvp dudes would have some hard time undocking, don't even tell them they have free targets in null sec. Lol

brb
Pipa Porto
#2294 - 2012-07-30 20:38:20 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
BTW how comes I can get a gank cane setup that sacrifices NOTHING (top tracking, best possible T2 turrets, 1.6s lock time, all T2 mods, 37k EHP without all V skills, high burst, 3 gyrostabs...) but if I want to fly a Mack I either forfeit 35% of yeld or have a pure sh!t zero tank and ofc all V skills?


nothing wrong with that; it's perfectly balanced.



Without that all those elite pvp dudes would have some hard time undocking, don't even tell them they have free targets in null sec. Lol



Last night I had a Falcon decloak on me (I think accidentally) and then tried to crash a gate. He started jamming me on the way to the gate. He had a full rack of Multispecs and a pair of 220s in the Highs.

That's pretty much a free target. And a Free kill.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2295 - 2012-07-30 20:38:46 UTC
JamesCLK wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
an instacane does not use tracking computers


I have no idea what I'm doing (you're right)!

[Hurricane, Instacane]

Counterbalanced Weapon Mounts I
Counterbalanced Weapon Mounts I
Counterbalanced Weapon Mounts I
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines, Scan Resolution Script
F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines, Scan Resolution Script
F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines, Scan Resolution Script
F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines, Scan Resolution Script

[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M

Medium Projectile Collision Accelerator I
Medium Targeting System Subcontroller I
Medium Targeting System Subcontroller I

Locks a Catalyst in 1 second.
A direct hit alphas an untanked Catalyst.

Can I have a gold star now?


Not enough dps to destroy that Catalyst.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#2296 - 2012-07-30 20:43:37 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
BTW how comes I can get a gank cane setup that sacrifices NOTHING (top tracking, best possible T2 turrets, 1.6s lock time, all T2 mods, 37k EHP without all V skills, high burst, 3 gyrostabs...) but if I want to fly a Mack I either forfeit 35% of yeld or have a pure sh!t zero tank and ofc all V skills?


nothing wrong with that; it's perfectly balanced.


Might be balanced but I totally feel well in my combat ships (minmatar and caldari) while the mining ships feel big smelly cartons that are just poor and lacking.

Even the Orca is a great ship, mine got like 250k EHP without sacrificing but a little cargo, it can be reconfigured to carry a lot or be very tanked or use a MWD for quick warp...

it's just the mining ships that suck really hard balls.


And even then, I prefer today's Hulk vs the new version. I'll never fly it. Total removal of any flexibility (like it had a lot to begin with!).
Nobody who is not a masochistic drone will use that piece of crap.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Dave stark
#2297 - 2012-07-30 20:44:47 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Mining Ice in a Hulk is perfectly viable, if a little slow. And when I say ATK, I mean actually doing something, which means that your protection is not being there for him to salvo you. You warp out as he starts landing on grid, not after he starts locking you.

Anyway, have I ever said the Mack couldn't do with some love? I've only said that the New SISI mack has gotten too much love and because of that, it eclipses the New SISI Skiff.


the problem is either the exhumers will eclipse the skiff or they will still be gank fodder. there's no middle ground. it'll be unprofitable to tank and the skiff will be redundant, or it will be profitable to gank and the rebalancing has failed.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#2298 - 2012-07-30 20:44:53 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
BTW how comes I can get a gank cane setup that sacrifices NOTHING (top tracking, best possible T2 turrets, 1.6s lock time, all T2 mods, 37k EHP without all V skills, high burst, 3 gyrostabs...) but if I want to fly a Mack I either forfeit 35% of yeld or have a pure sh!t zero tank and ofc all V skills?


nothing wrong with that; it's perfectly balanced.



Without that all those elite pvp dudes would have some hard time undocking, don't even tell them they have free targets in null sec. Lol



Last night I had a Falcon decloak on me (I think accidentally) and then tried to crash a gate. He started jamming me on the way to the gate. He had a full rack of Multispecs and a pair of 220s in the Highs.

That's pretty much a free target. And a Free kill.


How can he use the gate if he aggressed you?

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Pipa Porto
#2299 - 2012-07-30 20:46:37 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
JamesCLK wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
an instacane does not use tracking computers


I have no idea what I'm doing (you're right)!

[Hurricane, Instacane]

Counterbalanced Weapon Mounts I
Counterbalanced Weapon Mounts I
Counterbalanced Weapon Mounts I
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines, Scan Resolution Script
F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines, Scan Resolution Script
F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines, Scan Resolution Script
F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines, Scan Resolution Script

[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M

Medium Projectile Collision Accelerator I
Medium Targeting System Subcontroller I
Medium Targeting System Subcontroller I

Locks a Catalyst in 1 second.
A direct hit alphas an untanked Catalyst.

Can I have a gold star now?


Not enough dps to destroy that Catalyst.



Yes it is.

RF EMP does 3879 damage per Volley.
Suicide Catalyst has 3764 EHP vs EMP.

Do you get tired of being wrong every time you post?

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Pipa Porto
#2300 - 2012-07-30 20:47:28 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
BTW how comes I can get a gank cane setup that sacrifices NOTHING (top tracking, best possible T2 turrets, 1.6s lock time, all T2 mods, 37k EHP without all V skills, high burst, 3 gyrostabs...) but if I want to fly a Mack I either forfeit 35% of yeld or have a pure sh!t zero tank and ofc all V skills?


nothing wrong with that; it's perfectly balanced.



Without that all those elite pvp dudes would have some hard time undocking, don't even tell them they have free targets in null sec. Lol



Last night I had a Falcon decloak on me (I think accidentally) and then tried to crash a gate. He started jamming me on the way to the gate. He had a full rack of Multispecs and a pair of 220s in the Highs.

That's pretty much a free target. And a Free kill.


How can he use the gate if he aggressed you?


Like I said. Free target, Free kill. Silly Falcon.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto