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Why are CCP redesigning Exhumers around high-sec suicide gangs?

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Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#41 - 2012-07-30 17:52:37 UTC
Since Deep space would likely refer to anything outside inhabited systems...



Mining in Hulks is now only allowed in the EVE gate system.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#42 - 2012-07-30 17:52:59 UTC
Patrakele wrote:
Lady Spank wrote:
Patrakele wrote:
Deal with it or GTFO.

Thanks for taking the time to contribute to the thread. At least I can presume you will now GTFO yourself Roll


Oh now - that's the beauty of this game. I can do whatever the **** I want! If someone tries to take that away I will try and make their little worthless lives as miserably as possible. You see out their in the RL if someone takes my sundae from the fridge I don't just go another one - I buy another one and I put in their just before the exams start - here's the kicker - I put so much laxative in it, that someone will be shitting their bed for a week. Of course this is just stage 1 of me being angry out of 100.

And I am contributing more to this thread than you are, because if you look back, that nonsense you wasted pixels on is not worth anyone time. So how about you gather your toys and let the big boys play their space ship game? What do ya say sport?

ShockedBig smileWow!

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Luba Cibre
Global Song Setup
#43 - 2012-07-30 17:56:40 UTC
Quote:
If you don't partake in ganking then why are you concerned about the mining barges being adapted to resist being ganked.

You nailed the problem.
CCP adapted the barges to suicide ganking instead of the players.
That's what he think is wrong.

"Nothing essential happens in the absence of noise." 
Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#44 - 2012-07-30 17:59:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Lady Ayeipsia
Lady Spank wrote:
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Deep_Space_Scanner_Probe_I

Again, deep space is not the same aa nul sec. If it was, these probes would be limited to nul/wormhole only much like interdictor probes.

Deep space is any area of space outside the bounds of a planet's gravitational influence. You have deep space pockets all over, including grav sites where one could mine.


Those grav sites are within 4au of a celestial and not in deep space.


1 au is 149,598,000 km.
4 au is 598,392,000 km.


For a typical planet of mass 5.972x10^24 kg, to reach the point where gravity is one-millioth that as it would be on the surface, one has to travel 6,370,000 km, far less than even 1 au.

Now for a gas giant, the pull would be out to 2,025,660,000, well further than 4au. However, 4au can still be deep space depending on the mass if the planet in question.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#45 - 2012-07-30 18:01:11 UTC
Luba Cibre wrote:
Quote:
If you don't partake in ganking then why are you concerned about the mining barges being adapted to resist being ganked.

You nailed the problem.
CCP adapted the barges to suicide ganking instead of the players.
That's what he think is wrong.

It seems they did a bit of both, while only being semi successful in the anti gank area.



Also, last I checked they have reduced the initial overtankyness of the Hulk. So its getting a little more separate in their roles.
Dave Stark
#46 - 2012-07-30 18:01:37 UTC
oh look; another one of these threads.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#47 - 2012-07-30 18:02:15 UTC
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:
Lady Spank wrote:
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Deep_Space_Scanner_Probe_I

Again, deep space is not the same aa nul sec. If it was, these probes would be limited to nul/wormhole only much like interdictor probes.

Deep space is any area of space outside the bounds of a planet's gravitational influence. You have deep space pockets all over, including grav sites where one could mine.


Those grav sites are within 4au of a celestial and not in deep space.


1 au is 149,598,000 km.
4 au is 598,392,000 km.


For a typical planet of mass 5.972x10^24 kg, to reach the point where gravity is one-millioth that as it would be, one has to travel 6,370,000 km, far less than even 1 au.

Now for a gas giant, the pull would be out to 2,025,660,000, well further than 4au. However, 4au can still be deep space depending on the mass if the planet in question.


People believe in real-world physics in this game? Really?

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FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#48 - 2012-07-30 18:04:15 UTC
Luba Cibre wrote:
CCP adapted the barges to suicide ganking instead of the players.
That's what he think is wrong.


I've *heard* that the hulk is getting a bit of a buff. I don't think that should have happened. But what I've seen suggests you might need one more destroyer to gank them than before...so let's not give the miners tears to gloat about.

I'm fully in favor of the skiff change as a replacement to mining battleships. The retriever/mackinaw changes I haven't seen enough information on to really make a judgment.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#49 - 2012-07-30 18:05:39 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Luba Cibre wrote:
CCP adapted the barges to suicide ganking instead of the players.
That's what he think is wrong.


I've *heard* that the hulk is getting a bit of a buff. I don't think that should have happened. But what I've seen suggests you might need one more destroyer to gank them than before...so let's not give the miners tears to gloat about.

I'm fully in favor of the skiff change as a replacement to mining battleships. The retriever/mackinaw changes I haven't seen enough information on to really make a judgment.

I will miss my mining Rohk though...
Lipbite
Express Hauler
#50 - 2012-07-30 18:26:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Lipbite
I believe CCP start to act when they lose money. Most likely hulkageddon ended up with few thousands unsubscribed mining alts accounts ($15 * 12 months * 1000 accounts = $180.000 per year) - thus necessary change to please miners and return these subscriptions.
Alaekessa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
#51 - 2012-07-30 18:30:24 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Untanked hulks are squishy now.

Untanked hulks will be squishy after the patch.

I fail to see the problem.

edit: Oh right, some people actually think they're going to give up yield in favor of tank. They've always had that option, and have never taken it.


And for that, they should burn in their hulls.

Also, I am a reformed high-sec AFK "greed-fit" miner (who never lost a Hulk outside of 0.0) and I fully endorse either Exhumers being banned in high-sec or miners tanking their ****.

L2FitProperly or GTFO
Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#52 - 2012-07-30 18:31:40 UTC
Lipbite wrote:
I believe CCP start to act when they lose money. Most likely hulkageddon ended up with few thousands unsubscribed mining alts accounts ($15 * 12 months * 1000 accounts = $200.000 per year) - thus necessary change to please miners and return these subscriptions.


I believe this is speculation. For some time, ccp has talked about teiricide and balancing out all ships so they are more role based, not skill up to x and only fly that. This has always included industrial ships. This also goes along with changing the functions of the racial mining frigates to more useful purposes. Perhaps the perpetual hulkagedon bumped thus change higher on the list, but again that is speculation also.

As for your math, who pays the year on a month by month basis, especially with multiple accounts?
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#53 - 2012-07-30 18:36:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuka Solo
Lady Spank wrote:
They were never intended to be used in high sec anyway.

I'm not concerned with the actual changes CCP are making to these ships but the thought process that goes behind it and it's ramifications for the game as a whole. CCP are catering to the casual players and in doing so are turning New Eden from a dark and consequence filled universe to that of a hand-holding nanny state.

Quote:
The Hulk is the largest craft in the second generation of mining vessels created by the ORE Syndicate. Exhumers, like their mining barge cousins, are equipped with electronic subsystems specifically designed to accommodate Strip Mining modules. They are also far more resilient, better able to handle the dangers of deep space. The Hulk is, bar none, the most efficient mining vessel available.


Quote:
The Skiff is the smallest of the second generation of mining vessels created by the ORE Syndicate. Exhumers, like their mining barge cousins, are equipped with electronic subsystems specifically designed to accommodate Strip Mining modules. They are also far more resilient, better able to handle the dangers of deep space. Skiffs are specialty vessels, designed to mine Mercoxit.


Quote:
The Mackinaw is the medium-sized version of the second generation of mining vessels created by the ORE Syndicate. Exhumers, like their mining barge cousins, are equipped with electronic subsystems specifically designed to accommodate Strip Mining modules. They are also far more resilient, better able to handle the dangers of deep space. The Mackinaw is a specialty vessel, ideally suited for ice mining.


Clearly they were not intended for the starter systems which comprise high-sec empire.


I don't see any references in those short text descriptions forbidding their use in hi-sec... Their ability to better handle the dangers of deeper space does not translate into a banishment/exile order.

Legitimate thought process behind anti-ganker changes is legitimate.

More tears please.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
BoBoZoBo
MGroup9
#54 - 2012-07-30 18:45:10 UTC  |  Edited by: BoBoZoBo
Lady Spank wrote:
Thank you for confirming the new quotes cleverly remove any reference to their original intended use in 'deep space'.


Is "Deep Space" a new official region we are not aware of?
So we have HiSec, LowSec, NullSec, Unknown Space and... Deep Space?

As far as I know, even Nullsec is limited to warping around solar systems... so where is the DEEP SPACE you speak of? You you think (maybe) it could be some creative license with the description, distinguishing it from terrestrial mining?

Maybe they removed it because people like you were getting confused on it's meaning.

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Ugleb
Jotunn Risi
#55 - 2012-07-30 18:46:49 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
A new gas ship could freshen up the industry but how am I supposed to roleplay a miner, out on the limits of civilised space, bashing my ship with giant wrenches to keep it going and chewing on ore, evading space pirates if my ship is all heavily tanked.

It's not meant to be a combat vessel, a Thrasher is. Hulks also have a far superior tank to a Thrasher.


Just continue to fly the Hulk, not the other two with their buffed tanking. Problem solved.

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Ugleb
Jotunn Risi
#56 - 2012-07-30 18:54:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Ugleb
Lipbite wrote:
I believe CCP start to act when they lose money. Most likely hulkageddon ended up with few thousands unsubscribed mining alts accounts ($15 * 12 months * 1000 accounts = $180.000 per year) - thus necessary change to please miners and return these subscriptions.


I think it has more to do with the initiative to review every ship in the game and to make the ones which nobody ever uses into something actually useful.

The three tech 1 barges in particular were all the same but simply better with each tier. There was no real reason to fly a retriever if you could fly a covetor. Now there is an actual reason to engage brain and choose depending on your situational need. Likewise, the Skiff now becomes a much more relevant ship as it is useful for more than just mining one thing.

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Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#57 - 2012-07-30 18:55:39 UTC
Many miners did not tank their Hulks for a simple reason: Tanking a piece of tissue paper leaves you with a slightly stronger piece of tissue paper. If the gankers come for you, you still die. Best to have a cheap fit, maximize the yield, and hope you make enough money before it dies.

The new stats means it actually makes sense to add a tank. So many now will.

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MinefieldS
1 Sick Duck Standss on something
#58 - 2012-07-30 19:00:04 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
Nice quoting. Let me join in.

Skiff wrote:

The exhumer is the second generation of mining vessels created by ORE. Exhumers, like their mining barge cousins, were each created to excel at a specific function, the Skiff's being durability. With that in mind, the designers could only make space to fit one mining or ice harvesting module. To mitigate the effect this would have on its mining output, they came up with a unique loading system that allows this one module to work at triple efficiency.
Exhumers are equipped with electronic subsystems specifically designed to accommodate Strip Mining and Ice Harvesting modules.


Mackinaw wrote:
The exhumer is the second generation of mining vessels created by ORE. Exhumers, like their mining barge cousins, were each created to excel at a specific function, the Mackinaw's being storage. Although it only has space to fit two mining or ice harvesting modules, a fast loading system allows those two module to do the work of three modules.
Exhumers are equipped with electronic subsystems specifically designed to accommodate Strip Mining and Ice Harvesting modules.


Hulk wrote:
The exhumer is the second generation of mining vessels created by ORE. Exhumers, like their mining barge cousins, were each created to excel at a specific function, the Hulk's being mining yield. The additional yield comes at a price, as the Hulk has weaker defenses and a smaller ore bay than the other exhumers.
Exhumers are equipped with electronic subsystems specifically designed to accommodate Strip Mining and Ice Harvesting modules.

Bullshit



The Hulk is the largest craft in the second generation of mining vessels created by the ORE Syndicate. Exhumers, like their mining barge cousins, are equipped with electronic subsystems specifically designed to accommodate Strip Mining modules. They are also far more resilient, better able to handle the dangers of deep space. The Hulk is, bar none, the most efficient mining vessel available.

Mining Barge Skill Bonus:
3% better yield for Strip Miners per level
7.5% bonus to all shield resistances per level

Exhumers Skill Bonus:
3% better yield for Strip Miners per level
3% reduction in Ice Harvester duration per level

Role Bonus:
Able to equip Strip Miner and Ice Harvester turrets
Sarik Olecar
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#59 - 2012-07-30 19:06:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Sarik Olecar
I'm rather enjoying the new and emergent ecosystem that's evolved from this ocean of ganker tears. Have you guys tried the whalmon?

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Alara IonStorm
#60 - 2012-07-30 19:07:43 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
They were never intended to be used in high sec anyway.

dangers of deep space

LoL

So ever ship that is more resilient is not designed for High Sec. Like saying an SUV is designed for off road so you should not drive it on roads.

The guys who buy the ship decide what it is intended for.