Science & Industry

I like the scrap it down and build it back up idea as anything else and it would tier 2 the industry a bit in alot of places. Most intersting windows I see opening though would be the meta-level module construction where you need some of these extra parts to build it outside the original modules needs, would be a short term pita to work out for all 20k items though.

Now that leaves the other question... how do you get meta-level blueprints?

I have my ideas but that would be OT for this thread. However I would like to barrow elements of the scrap/build idea a bit for the salvager profession Im trying to peice together.

I would run the numbers on how much idle salvage exists in hangars because I think you'll find it's enough to utterly crash the market forever if you do this.

How about T3 rigs made from Sleeper guts? Even if the improvements were minor, it'd be nice to have the option to make them.

so I think that this should be the long term solution as getting this wrong can crash t1 salvage and rigs market and not done i haste.



I'm with the guys that worry about destroying all salvage value. It's dangerous and even more difficult to properly balance than melting salvage.

And how come it's easier then melting salvage ? Both can be done by already existing mechanics with comparable effort. Simply use reprocessing for t2->t1 side and blueprints with manufacturing for t1->t2 side (if we can melt from t1 why no make it two direction). And reprocessing waste can be used to make imperfect so that you can't make a cycle without loss of materials. All you have to do is add some blueprints and some reprocessing data.

Another quick solution is increasing drop for bottleneck t2 salvage - but that could mean that it can become not worth the time to do mag sites. Question is what is the dominant source of t2 salvage and how to make it still profitable with increase in drop.

On the matter of bpc drop - as a manufacturer I actually have that such bpc exist at all (the same with t2 bpo - i can't have them so I hate them). I can't compete with rigs made from them in price, and I don't use them as I can't obtain nearly as many as I would need. They are fine if they are in very limited number that they can't influence regular prices of rigs.



It is to say the least.

It would be most helpful to have more runs on t2 bpc from invention - not a base run number of 1 but 10 (like modules) or at least 5. If t2 rigs become more popular due to price drop it will be absolutely necessary so that manufactures can provide enough of them.
There are 2 groups of rigs currently:
a) cheap which are worth making from me -4 bpc. You use 1 run t1 bpc for them but invention takes time (6h medium, 12h large) and you get 1 run t2 bpc - so you can make very limited number of them.
b) popular and expensive rigs - you use decryptors to make cost reasonable and below market price. You use max run t1 bpc so that you can get more runs on bpc to divide bpc cost for more runs but creating such bpc take a LOT of time.
If we (manufactures) will need more rigs to counter more bigger demand on market then this will become major bottelneck (well it already is for me) - time necessary to get bpc. More runs from t2 rigs invention would mean that we are not limited mainly by time. And if t2 rigs would become cheaper than bpc cost would become bigger part of rig price so adding runs to bpc would proportionally reduce that.
And remember that increase in need for invention (if number of runs would not be adjusted) would mean demand for decryptors and same changes on that market.

And last thing - some rigs could be made more popular by adjusting their calibration cost - best example is mentioned before t2 scanning rig that is useless due to it's calibration cost.

nice idea



@1 it's a major change and could take a lot of time and

it's actually creating new salvage mechanics - but maybe it is what's is needed in the long run.
Also:

that. It would be the same - just that bottleneck materials would be the same for t1 and t2 rigs.

I like the sound of something like this.

Like to reiterate something some said above - please reduce the copy time for max run bpcs. This is a huge issue if you increase supply of T2 salvage by whatever means you choose. Making one rig at a time is not going to get much increased T2 production. Rigs are not ships and should act more as modules. Right now they do not when it comes to bps.

I live in a WH. mags and radars disappoint me in terms of profitability (i don't do invention or manufacturing). I fully admit that i'm probably not looking at this correctly and/or I am doing it wrong. Still, given the choice between doing 2 "regular" sites and 1 mag/radar, i'll do the 2 sites.

I'm not sure you understood the general concept entirely. T1 and T2 salvage pricing, currently, are mutually exclusive of each other (let's not get into the if I fit T2, I won't fit T1 nitpicking).
They have different sources and they are utilized differently. This carries forward to their rig pricing (after invention or exploration costs).

By allowing ALL salvage to be broken down into base component parts, you solve a few things :
1) Random bottlenecks, depending on the FoTM
2) Waste (where useless components gets stockpiled ever higher, causing problems down the road)
3) Less frequent balancing acts (as the entire system is dynamicly adaptable, as opposed to static)

Alchemy does the same the same thing, but in a different way.
It is less intuitive as you're playing with recipes rather than simple conversions (at least to me ... but I'm biased).

Now with all the above said, on the contrary, worthless T1 salvage prices will rise due to the spike in demand (*).
Why? Because now there's a way to monetize worthless salvage, aka more demand.
The only re-manufacturing allowed is : base components -> T2 intact salvage, none other.

(* The L4 skill req plays a major factor imo and if this is dropped to L3, the demand will be massive. Personally, I'm more in favor of leaving it at status quo and let the players sort themselves out. Given enough incentive, they'll go through unimaginable hurdles)

Yes, of course T2 salvage price's gonna dive (**), but that's to be expected - that's why I said CCP may not have to tweak the drops until the market rights itself.

(** It'll more or less flatten across the board if you assume equal conversions. So it depends on how CCP plays with the balancing if you're looking to have some variations. The flattening is good some ways, bad in some others. For the latter, a T2 intact armor salvage obtained in let's say an exploration site, it worth the same as a T2 current pump salvaged from a wreck. So there's really not much of a distinction between different T2 salvage.)

Thanks <3 ... I was hoping you'd had that feature.