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Why the corp member allowed to engage another at anytime shouldn't be allowed

Author
Call Rollard
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-07-29 16:43:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Call Rollard
Eve is a good game, especially the corporation and alliance side of stuff, HOWEVER I see a problem.

However, there has been this issue many corps often get, and its getting more and more common and even causes big corps to close down.

I run a corporation and I'm CEO. I've ran this corp fine, recruiting members and I check them for security. They are fine. But I had an issue when a player in my corp suddenly became a pirate and started shooting my corp members. CONCORD won't even help if a corp member gets attacked by another corp member in high sec and the pilot wont lose security at high or low sec. Sad

These issues often make corps close down, even API checks are not enough because a corp member suddenly becomes a pirate when you dont even know and starts killing your corp members. Pirate

However, if your in an alliance. An alliance member is not allowed to attack another alliance member without CONCORD shooting them. Ugh

My issue I'm trying to say is this: I think that there should be an option to allow corp members to shoot each other but also be able to turn that feature off. This means if a corp wants to do PvP against another corp member, they can shoot each other freely for PvP practice.

In short. Put an corp member engagment turn off and on button for high and low sec. Big smile
King Rothgar
Deadly Solutions
#2 - 2012-07-29 18:38:21 UTC
Sounds reasonable though if you have these types of problems, you need to keep a closer eye on your members. Also, that doesn't constitute piracy. That falls under the espionage category.

[u]Fireworks and snowballs are great, but what I really want is a corpse launcher.[/u]

Call Rollard
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-07-29 19:21:01 UTC
King Rothgar wrote:
Sounds reasonable though if you have these types of problems, you need to keep a closer eye on your members. Also, that doesn't constitute piracy. That falls under the espionage category.


Fact is that player was a good player in previous corps, suddenly became a pirate and started shooting ships not in my corp. Problems like that happen, so APi checks are not enough to get that.

But anyway, with the corp can shoot corp members. it becames an issue and CONCORD responding to allience members being attacked but not corp. Makes not much sence why we cant turn it off or on.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#4 - 2012-07-29 20:48:53 UTC
Get a PvP ship and blow the offender out of the water space. Stop trying to get NPCs to do your job for you!
Mag's
Azn Empire
#5 - 2012-07-29 21:32:09 UTC
It's all a part of Eve and should stay. Be more careful who you invite next time and have a policy of no roles for a set time.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

King Rothgar
Deadly Solutions
#6 - 2012-07-29 21:33:23 UTC
Security is an ongoing issue in any corp. You can't check an API key and be done with it. I admit I know nothing about the particular situation you describe, but my experience with these types of things is there are generally some warning signs. I've seen it done in retribution for slights from the senior leadership from otherwise very honest players (pirates are often honest btw, piracy and dishonesty are in no way linked). More often though, it's from guys who have zero respect for other players and can't think 5 second ahead of them. Those types are fairly common and just about any real corp will eventually find one in their midst. I wouldn't boot them over a gut feeling, but I do recommend keeping a close eye on them. It all comes down to knowing your corp members really. There just isn't any substitute for chatting with them casually.

Anyways, I still support your proposal since it's reasonable.

[u]Fireworks and snowballs are great, but what I really want is a corpse launcher.[/u]

Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#7 - 2012-07-29 21:52:35 UTC
To be honest I've always thought of awoxxing as a kind of proud Eve tradition, never done it myself but I'd be sad to see it go just so some high sec corps don't have to get to know people before accepting their applications.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]

Marcus Ichiro
IchiCorp
#8 - 2012-07-29 22:02:56 UTC
If you don't want to consent to PvP, don't undock.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2012-07-30 01:48:48 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
To be honest I've always thought of awoxxing as a kind of proud Eve tradition, never done it myself but I'd be sad to see it go just so some high sec corps don't have to get to know people before accepting their applications.

Agreed completely.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

A Soporific
Perkone
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-07-30 05:12:10 UTC
I don't muck around on the test servers much. When I test set ups and train for PVP I do it live. Without the lack of interference of CONCORD with internal disputes, I'd be forced to the test server. That's a huge hassle to deal with a problem I've never experienced first hand.

"Never trust anyone you can't punch in the face"

My first CEO ever told me that. I've lived by that. And I haven't had any problems at all.
StoneCold
Decadence.
RAZOR Alliance
#11 - 2012-07-30 06:22:28 UTC
It´s because eve is run by corporations. Every corporation is caring for their own security (to a resonable degree).
My bet why people in the same alliance but in different corps aren´t allowed to shoot each other is simple:

When alliances come to TQ ccp just missed that part (yes, i think it should be possible).

So: working as intended.
Hiyora Akachi
Blood Alcohol Content
T O P S H E L F
#12 - 2012-07-30 13:21:46 UTC
I feel Awoxing is a valid gameplay tactic.


Let the teamkilling continue.
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#13 - 2012-07-30 13:46:05 UTC
Removing aspects of the game which allow the behaviour of betrayal is detrimental to the game as a whole. Betrayal, spying, theft, conning and scams are all parts of the game that improves the sandbox quality.

I don't perform any and I avoid all "evil" game styles where I can but I certainly don't condone removing them from the game.

If you have many people turning on you and the rest of your corp from within you're either not paying enough attention to recruiting or you're treating your members like *****. Considering you've already said you vet members fairly thoroughly and they've never done it before it seems likely it's your behaviour as CEO or the behaviour of your directors that's causing the problem.

Try dealing with internal conflicts properly rather than asking for valid mechanics to be removed or changed. If you can't sort it out peacefully, kick them from the corp and let your corp know that you'll give a bounty to anyone who kills them. Depending on how much they upset you, you could always hire a merc corp to go after them or wait till they join another player corp and wardec them or if the offending individual heads to lowsec to "pirate" use locator agents and spend a week or two using your corp members to ruin that offender's days.

Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#14 - 2012-07-30 14:00:42 UTC
If they are going to AWOX, give them an incentive to leave.

Circulate a corp mail that for the next week a free kill hazing rite will be open on that pilot. The pilot with the most kill mails on them, podding included, will win a prize.

Then do it again the next week.

You either create a feel good sport, or they leave. Win / Win. You might possibly rehabilitate them, but let's not get too optimistic.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#15 - 2012-07-30 14:07:23 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
If they are going to AWOX, give them an incentive to leave.

Circulate a corp mail that for the next week a free kill hazing rite will be open on that pilot. The pilot with the most kill mails on them, podding included, will win a prize.

Then do it again the next week.

You either create a feel good sport, or they leave. Win / Win. You might possibly rehabilitate them, but let's not get too optimistic.
I like this, nice idea Nikk.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#16 - 2012-07-30 15:42:54 UTC  |  Edited by: FloppieTheBanjoClown
As someone closely involved with such "safaris", here's my advice on dealing with this:

Vet your recruits better. A proper API check will tell you what other characters they have on their account. Doing research on THOSE characters might reveal something. Be sure you can see their kill logs, and look for them killing members of their own corp.

Have a minimum SP limit. If you really want to recruit and train noobs, establish a feeder corp where noobs can reside while you help them get started, and then move up once they get to your SP requirement. This eliminates short-term alts from being able to shoot anything more than cheap T1 stuff. Be sure your noobs know that your policy is that any ships lost to recruits in the feeder corp are insured by the corp. That way if some schmuck DOES go noob bashing, they know you've got their backs.

What I think needs to be changed:

So far as I know, neutral logi repping a corp fight don't get any form of aggression. This gives an awoxer invincible logi support. This is a hole that should be closed.

It's impossible to kick a corpmate in space. Previous bugs have shown that this prevents inadvertent Concord losses and other problems, BUT you should at least be able to set someone to be kicked at the next downtime if they're in space and can't be kicked immediately. Theyshouldn't get to stay in a corp that wants to kick them just because they beat the CEO to logging in after downtime.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Virgil Travis
Non Constructive Self Management
#17 - 2012-07-30 15:57:14 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
If they are going to AWOX, give them an incentive to leave.

Circulate a corp mail that for the next week a free kill hazing rite will be open on that pilot. The pilot with the most kill mails on them, podding included, will win a prize.

Then do it again the next week.

You either create a feel good sport, or they leave. Win / Win. You might possibly rehabilitate them, but let's not get too optimistic.


On top of this, I'd randomly form fleets to chase them down and camp them in stations. They'd never be sure when it might happen and it's up to you if you let them know it is happening when you fleet up.

Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method Mamma didn't raise no victims.

Virgil Travis
Non Constructive Self Management
#18 - 2012-07-30 15:59:12 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
It's impossible to kick a corpmate in space. Previous bugs have shown that this prevents inadvertent Concord losses and other problems, BUT you should at least be able to set someone to be kicked at the next downtime if they're in space and can't be kicked immediately. Theyshouldn't get to stay in a corp that wants to kick them just because they beat the CEO to logging in after downtime.


This sounds like a pretty decent compromise, at least a CEO/Director would know they'd be gone at some point within the next day instead of having to deal with someone they couldn't hope to remove unless they managed to catch them docked.

Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method Mamma didn't raise no victims.

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2012-07-30 16:18:26 UTC
StoneCold wrote:
It´s because eve is run by corporations. Every corporation is caring for their own security (to a resonable degree).
My bet why people in the same alliance but in different corps aren´t allowed to shoot each other is simple:

When alliances come to TQ ccp just missed that part (yes, i think it should be possible).

So: working as intended.

It's because alliances are primarily nullsec entities (at least by design intent) where anybody can shoot anybody without consequence.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-08-01 00:00:49 UTC
Call Rollard wrote:


My issue I'm trying to say is this: I think that there should be an option to allow corp members to shoot each other but also be able to turn that feature off. This means if a corp wants to do PvP against another corp member, they can shoot each other freely for PvP practice.

In short. Put an corp member engagment turn off and on button for high and low sec. Big smile


Why don't we just make a PVE server like WoW... Not!... Eve isn't made for little boys.
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