Warfare & Tactics

Only that vengeance will lose 1 med for cap booster + 2 lows for reps, while hawk needs just 2 meds for asbs. And vengeance will still be more vulnerable to neuts.

That's actually my screenshot after 5 minutes of EFT warrioring right there

It's got a nice tank sure, but you shouldn't be ruinning both ASB's at once so it tanks for more than 30 seconds, but don't look at the EFT numbers too literally

It's amusing that these days 200+ rocket DPS is regarded as low for a frigate.

The main disadvantage of this setup, and it's a significant one, is the lack of an mwd. Yes that em hole is pretty bad too

So far I have only had one engagement in it but it was the most amusing fight I have had in ages. It started with busting up a mining operation, nearly killing the Drake that came in to defend it but losing it due to my PC overheating (#1), then tussling with a fed comet and the same Drake before overheating again (#2) then finally losing it on my third login to an Enyo and Vengeance mostly through bad module management, target calling and generally being in a mild flap over my crappy computer shutting down on me. Was great fun!

Had I not had the 2 crashes I might have got an extra comet, enyo, vengeance and drake kill but that was just a wierd engagement in the first place

Fair enough, they are both active in that screen. I fully expect these modules to be rebalanced, and hopefully soon. I can see them being considered mandatory and limiting the viability of many other ships.

In the meantime they are great for soloing but once larger fleets start employing them it's going to be ridiculous.

It may seem OP to some people, but the fact is that active tanking has sucked for a long time.

ASB actually make active tanking valid now. People just aren't used to it. Its been such a new thing, that a counter to it is not widely known and spread(but obvious-too bad most players are dumb).


Armor is superior for Passive Tanking.


Shield is superior for Active tanking.



When was the last time you've seen ASB's used for fleet battles?

I would like to point out that in AT10 CCP limited ships to using just 1 ASB.

Discuss.

You're forgetting that I, also, can fit ASB's on my ships, thus mooting your entire claim that I'm "just mad because it beats me". Also your claim that the ASB is fine because "shield tanking was a joke" in the past is so nonsensical that I don't even know how to begin addressing it. In fact, it's less a line of reasoning at is a ... justification. An excuse, really.

You really aren't making any points. Saying "people are just mad" and "working as intended" doesn't prove any points. Nor does your attempt to qualify yourself by saying "I've killed tons of ASB fit ships." I decided to look into that and check out your KB. Looking at it, I was a bit disappointed: You have very few small engagements on your record for the past 2 months, and of the small engagements (qualified here as 5 or less so we don't end up quibbling about it), I'm not finding any ships that are ASB fits. Most of your kills have 5 or more people involved, and a great many are 20 man gangs. All this shows is that with a big enough gang, it isn't very hard to kill anything, regardless of fit. And this thread, if you'd read the OP, is about small gang/1v1 engagements.

As far as small gang and 1v1 engagements go, ASB's have really thrown the balance off kilter. I'm not going to argue whether or not shield tanking was "a joke" before (I fly mostly MSE fits myself and am satisfied with their performance), but there's definitely balance issues where small gang warfare is concerned - which is precisely why CCP regulated the use of ASB's in the Alliance Tournament.

For all your tough talk, I'm not impressed with the argument and rhetoric you've presented. And that comment that an active tank battleship "should" be able to permanently tank 5 battlecruisers was the final nail the coffin, and really explains the type of mindset you're approaching this argument from. Have a good one. o/

This is why it isn't OP. Maybe it gives a little more, but after the boosters are out you're left with a crappy recharge, and a worthless shield boost amp :)

Edit: Look at a passive recharge drake. Then you'll truly see some silly numbers

The ASB can be overheated which gives a 10% bonus to boost amount, so on a 1 ASB fit that is one bonus. The other is a blue pill will add another 20% if that is being used.

The main thing that I see as a problem is the dual ASB fits that run near indefinitely (Until the charges are gone, but at only 13 a minute with X-Ls that can take a very long time, plenty of time to de-agress/kill all) which is why people are crying for a nerf.

Really the X-Ls are the only OP ones (from my experiences, I haven't fought an ASB frigate yet), the larges seem almost underpowered in comparison.

Dual MSAB frigates are kind of meh. You have to give up alot of DPS in order to squeeze two onto such a small frame. They have a decent tank but when most Assault Frigates can do close to 300 DPS - and your super tanked frigate only does 150 or so - they can be beat down.

On the whole Shield Extender to ASB comparison - it's a really thin line. If an ASB doesn't put enough HP in to equal the MSE - the module is worthless. If it puts in too much - obviously OP. If it's just right then you have to weigh alpha considerations vs. signature radius as some deciding factors.

I've come to accept that these modules will probably have something done about them. I'm all for a 1 per ship limit. The original idea was a quick burst tank on a high DPS platform. You see three X-Large on a Mael and it causes you to roll your eyes though.

It has different fitting requirements. 50 CPU is a pretty hefty chunk of CPU for any frigate. That's double an MSE's 25 CPU requirement. It's PG is 12 compared to 21 for the MSE. So it's different rather then 'lighter.' 50 CPU also means might skip damage mods to make room for it.

As for nuet resistance - working as intended. You can't tell me that you aren't just a little sick of mandatory nuets on the utitilty highs of every single ship? God forbid we have to choose missiles and rockets and a little bit more DPS to beat down ASB fits. I have fought dual MASB frigates 1v1 three times in the recent past. I won two and lost the third after breaking it's tank. (Third time he had an off-grid booster.) In all three fights I had an Enyo whose tank consisted of a DC and a Explosive plate. I had nuetrons and a rocket launcher in the high. Gank > Tank on the frigate level.